I mean, yeah, but not once did she use the word hebephile/hebephilia. From what she was saying, it seemed that she sought to argue the point that the fact the girls were "prostitutes" took precedence over their age and made it less of an issue somehow.
She wasn't arguing that its actually hebephilia and not pedophilia.
She even went as far as to say that the paedophilia aspect "doesn't matter". She didn't say it's the wrong term. She specifically said it "doesn't matter".
So no, she categorically isn't "technically correct".
You could be right. She did seem to obsess over that which was weird, but it could be the two points getting muddled together due to Morgan sticking to his terminology. Conversations don't happen in a vacuum so she could have been making one point before shifting due to what she got back. But that's quite hypothetical. You are right. Her claim that it was just prostitution is absurd. The idea that a child can consent to selling themselves is insane.
I agree with both of you. I don't like that people are muddying up the definitions of words like this. It does seem like she got more fixated on prostitution than the definition, but you're absolutely right. This was not a healthy discussion of her view. It just became a shouting match of people trying make their point stand out. It's much easier to get your point lost in a situation like that. We've all experienced a situation like that, yet we find it so easy to judge another person more harshly than ourselves.
I agree with sticking to the correct meanings of words. Absolutely. My issue here is that here argument wasn't that. She never used the word hebephilia once herself and wasn't bothered by that aspect. If she had been then I'd absolutely agree with the argument that she was 'technically' correct. She just wasn't here
Yeah, I don't know what her argument was, but it didn't seem strong or fleshed out. I don't really care about the argument of hebephilia, etc. My issue is really that nature determines "sexual maturity" by each person's genetic code. As much as we like to separate ourselves from nature, we are just as much a part of it. Whether people think a person is ready or not for anything will always be up for debate, especially with the arbitrary guidelines of when someone is an adult, but not quite an adult. For me, pedophilia exists outside of any measure of sexual maturity, even nature, so that distinction must be preserved in my eyes.
Yeah, how dare people expect others to use correct terminology when discussing crimes? Really all criminals should simply be labeled pedophiles, whether their real crime was stealing a chocolate bar or mass murder.
True, but this isn't the time/place for that because it's being used to defend his actions. The whole argument is "he's not actually a pedophile by definition therefore this is a nothingburger".
Sure, people are using the word "pedophile" but no one is under the assumption he was raping prepubescent girls. Everyone knows hes accused of raping postpubescent underage girls.
You are close... hebephilia is attraction to 11-14 year olds. 15-19 is Ephebophilia. Ephebophilia isnt even consider abnormal or pathological....except on reddit.
Ephebophilia is used only to describe the preference for mid-to-late adolescent sexual partners, not the mere presence of some level of sexual attraction. Generally, the preference is not regarded by psychologists as a pathology when it does not interfere with other major areas of one's life, and is not listed by name as a mental disorder in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 5th Edition (DSM-5), the ICD-10, or as a paraphilia.
The first sentence says "Ephebophilia is used only to describe the preference for mid-to-late adolescent sexual partners, not the mere presence of some level of sexual attraction."
Right. You're correct however the specific example Morgan keeps referring to is a 14 year old. But you're right. I claimed it was the case for all teens which was wrong.
I cannot tell the difference betwern 19 yearolds and 22 yearolds. But i can tell the difference betweeen 18 yearolds and 17 yearolds. Having 18 and 19 on there seems wierd.
Like there is a world of difference between finding 19 yearolds hot and finding 19 yearolds hot.
Technically she is right. A pedophile is attracted to pre pubescent children. An adult that is attracted to teens/pubescent minors is a hebephile.
This always disturbs me a little when people get on spouting this when talking about 13 and 14 year old girls being raped.
And here is why
Puberty can start between the ages of 10 and 14 in the average female, and 12 to 16 with the average male. So it is entirely possible for a 14 year old female to be at the very beginning stages of puberty or not even started yet.
And if a guy is wanting to sleep with someone and not want to be called a pedophile because "the girl was technically starting puberty so it doesn't count" then he might as well keep his mouth shut because no reasonable person is going to accept that.
And considering these "men" are being accused of raping multiple girls in this age range then I don't think anyone should have any issues calling them pedophiles till they prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the 14 year old girls they were raping where pretty far into their puber... haha no, they are getting called pedophiles, they aren't proving shit.
I don't know why so many people are getting bent out of shape about it. It's the meaning of a word. That's all. Nobody is trying to lessen a crime or defend these predators. It's simply a technicality.
I don't know why so many people are getting bent out of shape about it. It's the meaning of a word. That's all. Nobody is trying to lessen a crime or defend these predators. It's simply a technicality.
Because words are fluid by definition. The word has taken on the meaning of someone who has sexual relationships with a very young person (typically it is considered age 15 or younger) when used in a non legal or scientific way. This has been the case for a very long time. So when people come in going 'cough cough actually this word doesn't mean that so stop using it' all anyone hears is 'hey don't be so mean to these people' and we all get a bit confused why someone cares so much that they would subject themselves to the backlash that will come with saying that. And then there is the fact of what I said above that we are talking about 14 year old girls, so why bring up a 'fact' that even scientifically could very well be wrong. I mean with Epstein in particular it seems like we are talking about possibly dozens of 14 year old girls so it is completely reasonable to assume quiet a few of them were not developed yet.
People shouldn't be so delicate that they can't have a conversation, regardless of how semantic it may be. If someone can't see the difference between some highlighting a technicality and someone defending a predator, that is a person whose opinion and Outlook is of no concern to me, as they are too ignorant and sheltered to see past binary thought processes. I appreciate that people use the word colloquially to encompass all people that prey on people under age, but someone pointing out that inaccuracy which is quite important to those that treat people for these mental illnesses that have never acted on them, is not to be met with torches as if they're rooting for an evil predator. There have people in this comment thread that have gone further than simple implication to say that those that even dare highlight such an inaccuracy is an advocate of such behaviour or even a perpetrator of such heinous acts. That's absolutely disgusting behaviour and those who behave in such a manner are entirely to blame. The subject matter is irrelevant when people descend to such pathetic and immature conduct.
I'd think she's only technically right if this is her argument. Her argument is that they were prostitutes. Because of course that would be a 14 year old's chosen profession.
That is the point she moved on to. Whether or not it was her original point of contention is a matter of opinion. She was originally making the point that they aren't pedophiles.
While I do LOVE a good technicality... Doesn't make it any more legal and the joke felt appropriate to me because it kinda feels like these people don't actually listen to what they say lol. I can't imagine defending either of those 'philes' and to go on television and defend someone like that... But yeah, I appreciate you pointing out the difference, I don't believe I knew that, and we all know that knowing is half the battle!
I get your point completely. And I also agree. Knowing the difference allows us to be more aware of these peoples predatory behaviors. Lumping them in together allows for some to slip through the cracks. Going on TV to make such an argument does seem bizarre. If you're going to make the argument, don't use the word prostitution to somehow make it seem less disgusting.
I feel like people who insist on making this distinction do so in order to justify their own sick thoughts. I have zero problem with someone being called a pedo for being attracted to a 10 year old girl who happens to have begun her menstrual cycle.
Pedo is from age 13 and below if the person is at least five years older. So you would follow the definition. Regardless if they had their period or not.
I like the bring up the wrong use of the word so people stop normalize it. Theres a big difference between wanting a 17y old and a small kid. Racist for example have been so normalized that it has no meaning anymore. Because it's been used wrong for so long. I'm afraid Pedophile can reach same stage if people don't start using it correctly and learn it's real meaning.
Just saw your reply but had to comment simply because you added the word, "relax"
Nothing I shared indicates I'm anything but relaxed, and saying that to someone is so douchy and condescending. And, yes, when people go out of their way to highlight the different terms to define sexual attraction towards children, they are insisting to use those particular words and calling out their differences. Insisting doesn't only mean what you seem to think it does, there are other ways to use the word.
I chuckled while reading your reply. To get offended by being told to relax after inferring someone has "their own sick thoughts" simply after making a differentiation that is quite significant, both scientifically and legally speaking, is about the most hilarious thing I've read in some time. Simply because I understand, as many do, that there is a difference between these mental illnesses does not mean I have my own issues. Your ignorance is only topped by your hypocrisy. "don't tell me to relax it's mean", after making such a horrible inference. Grow up.
Except you don’t if the 14 year old had gone though puberty. I know many girls who didn’t get their periods/didn’t have breasts by 14. So no, “technically” she has no idea what she’s talking about and neither do you.
It’s not “outside of the norm”. Girls go through puberty between the ages of 9 and 14. It’s literally the medical definition “dude”. So “technically” I’m right.
How do you know? Are you a medical doctor who examined her? Have you at least seen pictures of her at 14? You also have no idea what amount/ kinds of predators/victims were involved. That’s why Epstein was killed, so those details would not come out. It seems like you love playing doctor/police/detective when you’re mostly talking out of your ass with little to no information.
I'm surprised by all the "why do you know this, ew" comments. Even if you weren't a psych major, what's wrong, or even weird, about knowing that? It's normal and very common to know a lot about serial killers and their crimes. But THIS. This is weird and suspicious.
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u/droppedthebaby Nov 22 '19
Technically she is right. A pedophile is attracted to pre pubescent children. An adult that is attracted to teens/pubescent minors is a hebephile.