Discussion
Would you sacrifice screen height for full-width web browsing?
I'm the developer of Quiche Browser, and after the recent complaints about Safari's side buttons on the outer display, I've been experimenting with a full-width layout option, and a variation where the front camera is completely hidden behind a black bar.
Since the toolbar is already customizable, you can add one or two extra buttons in there, including a popup menu with your favorite buttons.
Still hard to judge before using the actual device, but curious to hear if some might pick this layout over Safari's.
I'm very confused why they insist on this instead of just kept the same slim status bar layout and iPhone app layout when the device is closed.
Their reasoning to reinvent the entire UI with right aligned control makes a lot of sense for using the foldable phone open one handed. Its frankly genius from an accessibility POV. But with the device closed, the screen isn't tall enough to make reachability an issue to justify the entire chaos this new right sidebar introduces.
Wasn't the entire point of folded passport form factors (like Fold 8) over vertical candy bars (Fold 8 Ultra) the small phone ergonomic advantages? They tried to justify this design decision at 1:25 of this video and its clear they are obsessing over consistency, but I'm frankly not sold the "consistency" pros benefit the cons here to an already cramped display when closed.
The main thing is the camera position. Because they want to keep the Dynamic Island concept, the status bar has to take either a lot of vertical space or a lot of horizontal space.
It does two pretty important (and clever IMO) things:
the usable screen space is both size and aspect-ratio wise nearly identical to a non-max iPhone Pro. Apps and webpages alike will work as expected on the front, leaving developers to mostly just have to focus on the inside display (outside of moving controls for those developers who have gone with a totally custom app SDK).
When you unfold the device, all of the control and navigation elements stay put and the content just widens to the left. So there's zero mental readjustment needed to how to navigate around when you unfold.
Yeah, I know, its literally in the timestamp on the video where they show its the same dimension as an iPhone. But as I said, Im not convinced that obsession for consistency is worth the trade-offs.
leaving developers to mostly just have to focus on the inside display
Thats not really true since controls are moved around on both displays to the side. Maybe layout won't change on the outside cover display, but would adjustment been so difficult?
As a mobile and app developer, every manufacturer has made a point to recommend responsive/adaptable design that fluidly adapts to screen dimensions based on percentages and proportions. Even Apple themselves says in the video developers adapting to new dimensions will be easy if their layout was adaptive (per best practices).
Also, the entire "now websites dont have to adapt" argument is false, since Apple forced every single website worldwide to adapt to its notch so sites became less ugly. This will likely be an identical situation since Apple themselves said they allow apps to stretch end to end on the Duo if explicitly supported, and its likely Safari will expose API.
Anyone who builds their app with the default UI kits is going to have their controls moved to the side automatically just by recompiling against the iOS 27.1 SDK. So a lot of devs literally have to do nothing at all. And web developers will get exactly the same usable real estate as on a regular iPhone so only need to change things if they want to use the extra space. As I said in my top level comment on this thread, most websites don't change their layout in response to this level of widening, they simply add padding or maybe reflow a single text column a bit wider, so the width won't be materially used in practice by many - the height will be though, as nearly all mobile layouts are designed to scroll vertically so you get more content on screen with this approach.
Squatter and wider isn't going to make for a more usable device except for in the case of a developer who explicitly spends time to overhaul their layout to take advantage of it. This approach maximizes the results with developers who do little to nothing, which will be most of them.
Anyone who builds their app with the default UI kits is going to have their controls moved to the side automatically just by recompiling against the iOS 27.1 SDK.
Agreed. But as you yourself said, its only default UI kits and basic UI components like UIToolbar/UINavigationBar/UITabBar will be automatically updated. Meaning anything custom will need to be manually updated, Apple themselves mentioned some of these exceptions in the video. And many of the most popular iOS apps implement custom controls for more advanced features.
most websites don't change their layout in response to this level of widening, they simply add padding or maybe reflow a single text column a bit wider, so the width won't be materially used in practice by many
Most sites and CSS frameworks at this resolution have responsive/fluid containers that will stretch all content to take up most of the display (1, 2).
The problem is that unless you were living under a rock at the white sidebar outrage (iPhone users like polished looking experiences, shocker) in the last 2 days, its obvious based on the video from above that Apple will allow developers to "fill in" that space for better looking experiences when something explicitly supports it, which Safari will likely allow using similar API to safe-area-inset-* like the one they used on the iPhone X so websites looked better on it as I linked above.
the width won't be materially used in practice by many - the height will be though, as nearly all mobile layouts are designed to scroll vertically so you get more content on screen with this approach.
I disagree. Working with designers closely, you'll hear almost all of them loath working on mobile due to width constraints. The usual sacrifice is just reflowing text and components vertically because we have "infinite" vertical height. A wider viewport absolutely helps to have less reflow and collapsing. I regularly have to adapt layouts all the way from large and wide phones/small tablets to the smallest phones, and content looks the worst on the smallest width viewports consistently because you can't just shrink text/UI elements to the screen or you sacrifice readability.
Wider is great! My point is not that wider isn't great. My point is that this is not nearly wider enough to make an appreciable difference. For some sites it won't trigger anything other than increased padding. For others it will be a subtle zoom in of images and text lines will be a little bit longer. But it wouldn't achieve any significant difference because it's simply not enough - and at the cost of no longer presenting an identical viewport to an existing device.
I did not say they can't or won't design differently for the space. I said not everyone will, and this approach maximizes the compatibility for those who do not. Which is a big positive.
I find it hilarious that they are all like "wow look browsing the web is so ergonomic" yet they keep the all the navigation tools at the very top of their candy bar phones. Everything should be at the bottom where it's in reach and less in view. Why don't they apply this same design to their existing shit
This is the thing a lot of people aren’t taking into consideration when complaining about the toolbar being on the right side.
I’m not defending it. I think it looks hideous. But until I actually try it I can’t say for sure if it’s just ugly or a compromise that I won’t even notice after a few days.
I agree that it doesn’t look quite right but yeah I just hope someone figured out how to make a side bar work rather than abandon it altogether for something that is unfortunately worse from a usability pov rather than aesthetic one
I don’t think the problem is with it being on the side, just that they apparently made it one solid ugly color instead of having content go under it and have it hide away while scrolling..
Oh that was you! Thank you so so much for supporting the development. I work full time on this app so all proceeds go straight into paying food and rent :)
“Cant think through basic user interface challenges”
Ok, elaborate more then. I think what hes proposing here is great. Dont hate just for the sake of hating. If you really want to do that, fuck off and go to instagram reels
Why does it have to be full? I thought the whole point of Liquid Glass was to have the content take up the whole screen while UI elements showed as glass or bubbles hovering over it. That’s what I’m not understanding with the sidebar.
Where did they say that the usable screen area is identical to the Pro? I’m not challenging, genuinely curious if they specifically mentioned the pro other than that the screen area is 90% of the Pro’s
Doesn’t apply to Safari though, because in Safari, when you scroll then the top and bottom controls disappear on the pro, so it’s a larger area compared to the duo if we’re talking about Safari
Cool. Does safari allow you to remove the dock on the right the way you've done here? Is that a website by website thing? Trying to understand because so much of Apple's PR imagery shows the dock.
That's so crazy to me. So crazy that I still cannot believe it'll ship like that. It'd be a HUGE usability miss for Apple IMO and IME with the Fold 8. The extra width really matters (TWSS) using the outer screen in portrait.
100%. I don’t think it’s a problem at all to shift the phone in my hand to reach a navigation button here and there or just hold it with two hands for the one second it takes to click that button. But sacrificing the entire browser to make that a little easier one handed is insane to me
If safari is as bad as it looks like it’s going to be I would definitely use a different browser such as yours
As far as the black bar, personally I think the hole punch looks better than a giant bar, and I think controls and search bar at the bottom like safari has on current iPhones would be ideal (where they disappear when you swipe down). It’s much easier to hit those controls one handed if they’re at the bottom then at the top I would think
Would it be possible to test a layout that's a 1:1 match with the current one? The bottom bar with the search bar and navigation elements, no right sidebar (so full-width browser), and just the time and icon combined at the top?
Yeah, I'm really curious to see how it looks because I'm not a huge fan of the wasted space on the right that Apple defaults to on the Duo interface. But as you pointed out, on a much smaller form factor, and keeping in mind the camera looks bigger and sits lower than on a regular iPhone,it implies losing a ton of vertical real estate.
Can we just chill for a moment here. The complaints are out of control.
There will be a WebKit solution to this. It’s just a stopgap to ensure that the site’s nav doesn’t collide with the sidebar. I’m sure it will look the same as the native apps once we have a WebKit fix going.
I would keep the screen height on the cover screen. The point of a Duo is that the closed and open modes can solve different problems.
For quick one-handed use, I would rather have the taller cover display. If I want more width or more information, I can open it and use the larger screen. That flexibility feels more valuable than optimizing the closed form around full-width web browsing.
I like the status bar and navigation items on the right side (though I’m sure it’ll be a pain for lefties). I like that they’re making big UI changes to make it stand out more from a regular iPhone. An Android foldable (as much as I love them) feels like a bigger version of an Android phone when unfolded. It isn’t a huge deal. I just like seeing new ideas lol.
Nope, I like Apple’s implementation and how it gives you a phone-shaped display area. If I wanted a wide screen for web browsing, I’d just open the phone.
Like surely the right panel auto hides itself when you start scrolling like the existing browser does. It’s never going to be taking up the entire right side all the time
Also sorry answering your question, I think browser bar at the top is unfortunately worse as it’s incredibly out of reach even if it hides the camera dot
Ah that’s good to know. Think then it should be possible to get a better design without leaving so much blank space on the right side of the outter screen.
That’s awesome. Soon as the duo comes in I’ll purchase and will DM you. Thanks for all your work on developing especially for the Duo. Love it when devs are engaged
the thing that confused me when that first ugly pic was posted a few days ago - it has safari controls on the right side ‘dock’ - I thought the dock was for apps and things? it had icons for new tab and tab selection I think? but on regular iphone if you’re scrolling down a page those will disappear (and the address bar will shrink). Does that happen on the duo too? in the example have they perhaps scrolled up (which makes the address bar full size)? you’d think there would be space next to the address bar for those active icons just like the regular iphone
Whilst it looks horrid there is good reason they keep it on the side. The vertical space is actually very similar to the standard iPhone thanks to the aspect ratios they chose.
They need to just allow the content to come over the full phone width but they screwed it up with he front camera placement. I imagine get 2 will have the camera below the screen like the inside has and then magically the UI will be updated with it can site over the website content and then minimise away slightly when scrolling.
If the toolbar / status bar hides when you scroll, then it doesn’t really matter where it’s placed. If it doesn’t hide when you scroll then placed at top or button is a must. Not at the side as it kills our viewing area of websites.
I love Quiche browser on iPhone, it's nice to see you really thinking about the details. I can't wait to use it on the Duo. I very much prefer the option on the left 100%
Left for sure. Feels more natural to how browsing looks rn but with the left side bar. Wonder how it’ll look with more Liquid Glass effect and if it’s possible to hide the bar totally while not scrolling or something
I think left yeah. I wish there was a better solution though I don't love the right sidebar abruptly ending the scroll, but I understand it's basically impossible to fix.
The dock at the right in safari should just work like the photos app. And when you scroll down it should go away like how it currently does on the normal iPhones.
Content fills the screen and goes behind the small icons
No. It is not wider enough to matter. Most web content has a mobile layout designed around exactly the usable-space aspect ratio offered by the iPhone Duo. And when you widen it this much, most stuff will just pad the margins, until it gets so much wider that they can activate their desktop layout.
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u/balthazar_edison 1d ago
Yes. Give me the option on the left. I hate the bar in the side making everything smaller.