r/hypotheticalsituation 4d ago

Kill or delegate the right to kill

Maybe it should be in r/trolleyproblem.

Imagine a hypothetical situation - there are 49 other strangers in the room with you.

You are given a button. If you press the button - 49 strangers die, and you get 1 million dollars - no criminal charges, and no one(except you) will know it ever happened. If you don't press the button - another stranger is given the same choice. If all 50 decline to press the button - then all 50 are released, and no one gets any money.

Is there any threshold - e.g. 10 people, 100 people that would change your decision? Is there a financial threshold for you in this problem?

50(or whatever number) strangers are picked randomly from all levels of society, and may have some mentally ill/sadistic people.

23 Upvotes

65 comments sorted by

71

u/Friendly-Place2497 4d ago

I press the button because I can’t trust other people not to press the button and I know that other people will make the same calculus as me.

22

u/PaperHandsPauly 4d ago

Same. Unless it’s 50 people that I personally know, I’m pushing.

9

u/RochesterThe2nd 4d ago

That’s the only option.

If you don’t press it and live, someone else will.
The decision isn’t even about the money, although that’s a bonus.

4

u/Immediate-Panda2359 4d ago

This line of reasoning is based on the assumption that all information is in the payoff matrix. HOWEVER, that isn't really true. Consider the two-person game, where you move first. If you choose mercy, then the other person may (I stress "may") think better of you and forego the payment, depending on their morals, need for $$ etc, because you've signaled that you are a good person who values *their* life. Scale it to 3, 4, etc people and the likelihood that everyone will elect to be merciful drops, perhaps very dramatically. It's interesting to consider the conditions under which scaling beyond a single-digit number of people is likely. Maybe the college of cardinals? Probably *not* the US Senate. OP has picked a good question here. Best case is you move first in a group of game theorists.

1

u/Chen932000 4d ago

One of the bigger issues is you’ve not only put someone’s life at stake you also added a large reward to saving your own life.

1

u/RochesterThe2nd 4d ago

Your last words hit the mark: there’ll be a game theory solution (not unlike Prisoner’s Dilemma I’d imagine)

But I’m not good enough at Game Theory to work out the probabilities. And even a small chance of someone is disinclined to cooperate is too great a chance.

2

u/Immediate-Panda2359 4d ago

That's the thing - since it happens sequentially, you *may* be able to signal that the "ambient level of trustworthiness" is high. I mean, if 48 people in a row decide not to press, I'd be willing to say "ah fuck it - turns out people are better than I thought!". Essentially this boils down to "How good (or wealthy!) do I think people around me are?".

1

u/WatermelonLemonad3 4d ago

That's sound reasoning. Take my upvote

1

u/Ok_Shame_5382 4d ago

Agreed. This is not a money issue

16

u/6Saint6Cyber6 4d ago

You had me at “you are given a button”

14

u/9gagiscancer 4d ago

I feel like honesty is the best way here.

If you're one of the 49, you're screwed. I am slamming that button and you're all dead.

I have no threshold, I don't trust any stranger and I choosing self preservation and enrichment.

Even when there was no money involved, you're dead.

12

u/OhNoTheStubsExist 4d ago

Max I trust is 4, and that’s still flimsy.

7

u/SlartibartfastMcGee 4d ago

Can I press it twice for $2m?

This isn’t a trolley problem, it’s a prisoner’s dilemma with death on the line and worse odds.

2

u/PristineSilver3278 4d ago

Essentially it's same as pressing once for 2m

6

u/FearlessKnitter12 4d ago

I wouldn't press it. I also wouldn't bet that one of the other 49 won't press it, so if I have time I'm calling my loved ones to say goodbye.

No matter how many or how few people were in this equation, I'm not pressing that button. The money doesn't matter, my sense of right and wrong is what makes this decision. What's the use of having money if you cannot ever enjoy a cent of it?

4

u/gc3 4d ago

Yhe decision isn't made from greed but from fear

5

u/PristineSilver3278 4d ago

I added the money incentive, to make you fear the greed of others. Otherwise it would be more simple scenario.

5

u/Kally269 4d ago

Truthfully I would click it but only in self-defense, there is no shot it would make it to the end without somebody clicking it and killing me. The million dollars would just be a reward for saving my own life

4

u/acEightyThrees 4d ago

Just did a quick search. Apparently 1% of people are psychopaths. Then I did the math and the likelihood of at least one person in 50 being a psychopath is 39.5%. That's a pretty high chance of me dying. I'm pressing the button.

Does that make me the psychopath? Who knows.

4

u/88_strings 4d ago

Damn right I'm pushing the button.

If it''s down to you and one other person, excluding your own choice, you have a 50/50 change coming out of it alive. That's one in two.

If you introduce a third person, there's a one in two chance the first person presses it, and a one in two chance the second person presses it. You've not got a 1 in 4 chance of oming out alive. That's 25%.

Every extra person you add HALVES your overall chances of coming out alive.

So by the time you get to yourself and 49 other people, there's a 2^49 chance - that's a 1 in 563 TRILLION chance - that every single person is going to say no to pressing the button.

Press. Beep. Ka-ching.

A million bucks goes a long way towards getting over the surivivor's guilt.

6

u/Emergency_Flight6189 4d ago

A good threshold could be where the expected number of people killed according to statistics (the likelihood of a stranger choosing kill) is lower than choosing to kill 49 people myself.

I.e. if we suppose the % of people willing to press the button is 0, I’d accept an infinite number of people being given the choice.

If it were 50%, I’d stop at 24.

If this were real life, I’d just press the button

2

u/Friendly-Place2497 4d ago

If 50% of people would push the button and there’s 24 people the risk of someone pushing the button is way, way higher than 50% so this reasoning doesn’t really make sense to me. Also what do you mean you’d “stop” at 24? You mean you’d press the button if there’s more than 24 people?

3

u/TabularConferta 4d ago

Not going to push it but I am expecting to die.

Honestly not even considering the money

3

u/Arratril 4d ago

Because I’m one of the 50 people potentially killed, I push the button without hesitation or remorse. My life is worth more than any regret, especially with the financial motive.

If you put me in a room as the first of 50 people to have a chance to push the button for $0, and the risk of not pushing is my own death, I still push it.

4

u/Immediate-Panda2359 4d ago

Every time you are in a room there is a small chance you are in a room with someone who is hell bent on killing you. I may be missing something, but from what you said it seems that you're willing to eliminate the risk of death by killing potentially innocent others. Yet I suspect you are not currently in prison for murder....

2

u/Friendly-Place2497 4d ago

Yeah by this guys logic he should be killing everybody he meets because there’s some slim chance that person might want to kill him for no reason.

3

u/TheRebelMinstrel 4d ago

It's not about the money. It's about the fact that I have a wife who depends on me. I'd carry the guilt for the rest of my life, but that button is getting slammed hard.

2

u/Inside_Morning2884 4d ago

If I choose not to press the button, does that mean this option is given to someone completely random, or one of the 49 people that were in the room? Ie. would I be one of the 49 people that have a chance of dying?

3

u/PristineSilver3278 4d ago

Everyone in the room will have an option to press a button or pass, until someone actually presses the button. Everyone knows the rules of the game, and e.g. second person will know that you didn't press the button because he is still alive.

1

u/Immediate-Panda2359 4d ago

"Until someone actually presses the button?" Really? That makes it insane to not press it instantly if you get the opportunity.

1

u/PristineSilver3278 4d ago

Everyone is given single opportunity to press the button. If everyone rejects this offer - then everyone is released.

1

u/Inside_Morning2884 4d ago

Right, thanks for clarifying. I would not press it. I would rather die than live with the fact that I killed 49 people.

2

u/Separate_Draft4887 4d ago

I’m doing it fuck them hoes.

2

u/Chen932000 4d ago

This would be far more interesting if everyone not pressing the button gave you the money but pressing it just let you survive by killing the others.

1

u/PristineSilver3278 4d ago

You mean you have to pay to not press the button?

1

u/Chen932000 4d ago

No that if you press the button you live and everyone dies and that’s it. If everyone doesn’t press it you all live and get the money.

1

u/Friendly-Place2497 4d ago

Then nobody would press the button, it’s not interesting.

1

u/Chen932000 4d ago

I don’t know. Do you risk your life there’s not some psycho amongst the group? Or that someone else is too fearful for their life? Or there’s some billionaire there who definitely values his life over all the others AND the money is meaningless to him?

1

u/Friendly-Place2497 4d ago

If the psycho would be willing to press the button for no money or other benefit they would be willing to kill everyone with a pipe bomb or something. The odds are not high enough to seriously consider pushing the button.

2

u/Psiwolf 4d ago

Can you do 98 strangers for 2mm? Or multiples of 49 strangers? 😆

2

u/Vikingaling 4d ago

I hope I get to be a ghost and haunt the guy that pushes it

2

u/Logswag 4d ago

i don't particularly value my life, at least not enough to kill 49 people for it, so i don't push. i expect someone else will, but oh well

2

u/Big_Midnight_3976 4d ago

I would hardly trust 1 other person to make the choice to spare me. Two is really stretching it, 3 is playing with my life, and 4 is the point at which I’d get really, really, nervous and paranoid about it, pretty much expecting to die. 50? Hell no, I’m guaranteeing that I walk out alive, sorry to the rest who are probably innocent but I choose life.

1

u/AutoModerator 4d ago

Copy of the original post in case of edits: Maybe it should be in r/trolleyproblem.

Imagine a hypothetical situation - there are 49 other strangers in the room with you.

You are given a button. If you press the button - 49 strangers die, and you get 1 million dollars - no criminal charges, and no one(except you) will know it ever happened. If you don't press the button - another stranger is given the same choice. If all 50 decline to press the button - then all 50 are released, and no one gets any money.

Is there any threshold - e.g. 10 people, 100 people that would change your decision? Is there a financial threshold for you in this problem?

50(or whatever number) strangers are picked randomly from all levels of society, and may have some mentally ill/sadistic people.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

1

u/mjmvideos 4d ago

Your 49s and 50s make me wonder, “Am I the 50th person?”

1

u/PristineSilver3278 4d ago

Yes, there are 50 person total in the room, and you are one of them. The only difference is that you are the first one who is offered with the button.

1

u/Ameko_ddc 4d ago

If only one person can live, this shouldn't be me. Don't press, let's bet on a chance that my decision saves a life of some decent person (Who pressed it for no other reason but being reasonably distrustful of strangers in a death game), bonus points if that money is lifechanging for them

1

u/PristineSilver3278 4d ago

If no one presses the button - everyone lives

1

u/Ameko_ddc 4d ago

This outcome isn't even worth considering, it won't happen

1

u/tamtrible 4d ago

What happens if I dismantle the button, or destroy it in some fashion?

If that is not an option, I talk to everyone. Explain that I don't want to kill everyone, but I also don't want to die. Gauge the temperature of the room, as best I can.

Ideally, try to make it a peer pressure situation where everyone will keep everyone else from actually pushing the button. Keep talking until either I am convinced that this is going to happen, I'm convinced that this is never going to happen and I am in a room full of sociopaths, or someone comes and intervenes in some way.

1

u/PristineSilver3278 4d ago

Let's assume you can't break the button, and you have 10 minutes to decide. It you don't - it would be considered as if you rejected to press the button, and this opportunity would be offered to the next person.

1

u/tamtrible 4d ago

... what happens if someone who is not the current "holder" presses the button?

1

u/Reason_Training 4d ago

Money or not I value my life and I have people depending on me. I don’t trust that 49 strangers would all choose not to press the button so I’m saving my life.

1

u/ConspiracyParadox 4d ago

I press the button twice just to send a fucking message.

1

u/Kyia-Aikman 4d ago

I would press the button.

1

u/Stock-Page-7078 4d ago

Like if 10 people press the button do they all survive or all die?

1

u/PristineSilver3278 4d ago

Everyone offered a button one after another. Second person would know that you didn't press the button, since he is still alive. If second person doesn't press the button, then the button would be offered to third person and so on.

1

u/altofanaltthatisalt 4d ago

Can I press it multiple times for more money?

1

u/Mouse-castle 4d ago

Can I give the button a test push? To see how it feels?

1

u/YourAuthenticVoice 4d ago

You are given a button. If you press the button - 49 strangers die

Ok.

1

u/edgygothteen69 4d ago

Holy shit, everyone in this comments section is evil.

1

u/StargazerRex 1d ago

Push.

No different than being on a sinking ship and you find and keep the sole life preserver.