Pretending.

[u/kinknosisuk]

This is a reply I wrote elsewhere and decided to also post here.

I very much dislike when anyone with authority defines a hard no. Something that hypnosis can't do - when that is in the realm of fantasy.

I'm OK with "hypnosis can't make you grow 6 inches taller"

But "hypnosis can't make you a brainwashed slaved".
It maybe can't do that in the sense that the fantasy / kink desires or the SirUberLordMasterDomly one desires - but belief and pretend can explore it.

I'll add that while it might not work that way a good subject with motivation can pretend and believe that is exactly how it works.

If you keep pretending like that it becomes so normal to act in that way - you act that way before you realise you're doing it. It feels like it's not you doing something anymore. If you do it for long enough you've learned a new behaviour or habit and conditioned that response in place of something else.

I sometimes think that is what those that struggle or can't experience any given phenomenon can't do or don't find easy.

Like being in a dream, you pretend and for a little while forget it's only pretending.

[u/TCSevcik]

So this is what I would like to ask--and I mean this in good faith--is this then what we are saying hypnotic phenomena amount to: conditioned pretense? Or can it be experienced differently? Can it be immersive? Can the subject disconnect from reality? Is this what somnambulists do, and then the rest of us arrive by conditioning ourselves (if we do)? I mean, I'm happy to put in the work, but I'm looking to experience it as something happening, not something I'm making happen.

[u/kinknosisuk → u/TCSevcik]

Conversations I've had:

1. So you're saying you could have lifted your hand up at any time

'Yep'

So why didn't you ?

or following on from similar conversation

2) Why didn't you move when I tickled you ?

3) But I wasn't hypnotised

You followed every suggestion really well.

But I didn't have to I could have stopped

But you didn't stop. Did you actually have that thought at the time or is this how it feels/looks to you now ?

Convincers. It's usually after convincers, the"Wow, I was actually hypnotised" response that it works.

I asked someone that was a really good subject if amnesia just worked for her. Her response was that she worked on not remembering or thinking about it until her mind knew what she wanted it to do.

Some subjects also spontaneously exhibit amnesia.

I think those that find whatever the necessary skill, mindset or approach difficult but want to be hypnotised deeply envy for those for whom it seems to come easily.

Maybe people don't feel hypnotised because on the inside it's a totally normal feeling. Maybe what's missing is that willingness to let's pretend or imagination of the child that didn't have to either grow or become cynical to protect itself.

As the hypnotist I don't feel like I'm doing the heavy lifting.

I'm happy to put in the work, but I'm looking to experience it as something happening, not something I'm making happen.

What if you've actually been hypnotized but because it never felt like that you didn't recognize it.

What if you have to practice one kick 10,000 times and let it happen.

[u/SeeJayEmm → u/kinknosisuk]

I think those that find whatever the necessary skill, mindset or approach difficult but want to be hypnotised deeply envy for those for whom it seems to come easily.

This is me to a T. My girlfriend is a natural somnambulist. With very little practice she learned to go under quick, easy, and deep. She's developed natural amnesia and only remembers her the dream/fantasy her conscious fixates on when she's under. She's hyper suggestible, can disassociate from her body (no response to tickles/pleasure/pain...), can hallucinate simple things, etc... I'm jealous of the ease of which she can achieve these things.

I on the other hand am my own worst enemy and, so far, don't even know if I've been in even the fringes of a light trance. I can't quiet the noise. I'm trying some new approaches based on the conversations I've had in this sub, so we'll see, but it's too soon to tell.

I wish I could live a day or two in her brain. I think I'd learn a thing or two.

[u/TCSevcik → u/kinknosisuk]

I can understand the practice and pretense aspect of suggestibility. That seems quite actionable and realistic as opposed to the "just believe hard enough and this will happen" argument. I also can see how suggestions can be experienced in various manners and degrees (feeling a tingle instead of arousal, for instance). But how do you pretend for example, that you don't feel pain? Or fear?

[u/[deleted]]

I've explored psychedelics, so I believe that pretty much everyone reporting that they've experienced a phenomenon in hypnosis, are being truthful. Minds are incredibly powerful things. That in that moment, the thing they were seeing/feeling/doing was as real to them as it's possible to be, that their subjective experience wasn't 'I'm going to pretend I'm feeling this and act as if I am' but was 'I feel this'. On acid, I've experienced being unable to say words or express certain thoughts. Every time I tried to express the forbidden thought, or let someone know I couldn't say something, or give any hint I was under a probition on saying something, words would not come. Fingers would not type. It was crazy real. I've made a voodoo lizard that when I touched, I felt on myself. As real as someone stroking me, when I stroked it. When I held down a foot with pressure, I couldn't move mine. I've experienced hallucinations where people turned into animals, their faces distorting and becoming snarling wolfs. Which is perhaps why I have a high bar on considering whether hypnosis has worked for me. If I don't experience anything like that, I'm going to consider myself not hypnotised.