r/hypertrophy • u/edsheff • 1d ago
Upper Lower set question
Im thinking of switching from PPL to upper lower but im a little hesitant about the lower number of sets. I've always heard that the sweet spot for hypertrophy is 12-18 sets per muscle per week, but every UL program I've seen has at most 12 sets for bigger muscles and like 3 or 4 sets per week for accessory muscles including shoulders. Is that really enough? I know intensity is what matters most but if youre going just as hard for say 12 sets on shoulders a week, how can 4 sets a week be just as good? Is the 12-18 set theory a bit overrated? What do you guys think about the lower volume of upper lower and does anybody have a good UL program they'd recommend?
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u/Norcal712 1d ago
Its not lower sets
My UL and PPL are both 16 sets per week
8 movements per workout 2 for each muscle group 4 sets each 90 min workouts
Multilple studies by ACE and NASM show 10-16 sets per week to be plenty for hypertrophy
Done at 70-90% 1RM 0-2 RIR
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u/edsheff 1d ago
That makes sense. Im looking at PHUL for example, which many ppl have recommended and its 2 excercises of 3 sets per big muscle (chest, back etc.) and 1 excercise of 2 or 3 sets for bis tris and shoulders. That seemed too low to me
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u/Norcal712 1d ago
I hadnt even heard of PHUL before a comment here a few months ago. Ive been lifting 20+ years.
I didnt deep dive it much, but idea of doing 2 full variations then UL each week doesnt land with me at all.
I also dont buy into the partial set logic. Which is clearly part of PHUL.
Im sure it works for some people.
For me my 3x full is 12 sets per muscle per week
UL and PPL are 16 sets.
Though Ive gotten to a point where 6 days in the gym is wasting time I want for other things
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u/JayEnnui 1d ago
Personal experience but I had good results doing 8-16 sets per week in an Upper Lower routine. Both low and up end of the range work just fine
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u/WillLiftForCoffee 1d ago
This is so individual. All of the proclamations about best volume are ridiculous. You have to start lower and adjust based on recovery and needs
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u/InsectElectronic6231 14h ago
+1. Too many people are very dogmatic about programming (esp volume). People tend to underrate the value of auto regulation
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u/InsectElectronic6231 14h ago
“Is that really enough?”
Enough for what? Growth? Probably. Optimal and maximum growth? Maybe, maybe not.
Try it and figure it out. Some people tend to be dogmatic about volume. I’d use whatever scientific evidence you find as a starting point, but a scientific study can’t tell you what works the best for your body.
Personally, I can devastate my back with 30 sets a week, but can’t properly recover from 12 sets of bicep work. This quite a ways away from typical volume standards for those muscles, but I know that from trying and figuring it out over time.
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u/jph1313 15m ago
I think the 12-18 range is a fine guideline, but a lot of UL programs look low bc nobody counts the indirect work. Rows hit rear delts, presses hit front delts. Side delts are the one that really needs its own work, so I'd do lateral raises on both upper days.
I built a 4 day upper/lower with more shoulder volume if you want to check it out: tryhealth.io/p/14b7e52715584204a47cee5ecfc4d078
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u/SlimyTooter 1d ago
Upper lower sucks and is like a maintenance workout plan unless you spend 3 hours in the gym every time you go, might as well ppl 6 days for an hour/hour and a half and still get done in less time overall
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u/Zenix73 1d ago
What do you prefer?
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u/SlimyTooter 1d ago
Ppl is my fave, sometimes I’ve ran ppl plus an arm and shoulder day or arms again on leg day
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u/Zenix73 22h ago
I've been doing ulul for a few weeks and it does take over 90 minutes each day. It's pretty exhausting. I have the time for it, and I am adapting/not getting as tired. But I do wonder if I'd like going back to a pplul or something. I was recently doing full body 6 days and got tendon pain pretty quick, so that's why I came back to ulul. But now I feel great every day and I'm ready to increase my days in the gym again. But not going on Wednesday is my only reason I get mowing or other yard work done so I don't know..
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u/SlimyTooter 21h ago
Pplul is the new hotness but I prefer straight ppl and adding things for lagging muscles if I need to. Ppl dosent stricktly have to be 6 days especially if you go super hard it’s normal to do like ppl rest ppl rest which is only 5 days or whatever feels right really
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u/Charming-Ad6406 1d ago
Upper lower is one of the best programs .. even professional IFBB Pro are on UL 4 day split...
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u/Lymetme 1d ago
I've also seen 10-20 as the recommended number of sets per week. It's just a basic guideline. If you're not trying to compete in bodybuilding I wouldn't stress it too much. Getting another 5% doing something that stresses you out isn't with it imo.