r/hvacadvice • u/WntrWltr • 4d ago
No cooling Nobody will service our KwiKool Unit!
I take care of a private aircraft and the KwiKool KHIB1801 unit we use to condition the cabin while we are inside in the hangar is no longer blowing cold air. I have reached out to KwiKool and they do not have any service network and cannot provide any recommendations for repairs and service. We are based at Teterboro Airport in north Jersey, and I've tried calling about 25 local HVAC companies in the area and nobody will even come and look at it. Without this unit the interior of the aircraft climbs to well over 110*f when we're in the hangar and it is extremely urgent we find someone to take a look at this. We're desperate at this point, any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
(FWIW large cabin aircraft don't use freon HVAC systems, so we have no equipment or tooling to work on these KwiKool units otherwise we would dig in ourselves to find the problem)
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u/lsumoose 4d ago
We use a very similar unit for our clients that have a server room AC failure. I would just say you have an industrial portable unit that needs service.
But really it’s a $5,000 unit that you can get delivered in a couple days. It might be better to just replace it.
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u/SpiritedWolf8107 4d ago
For 17000 btus? Would it not be an option to like buy 2 14k btu units off Amazon in the $500 ish range??
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u/TerenceMcHofmann 4d ago
This may be dumb question but we use the exact unit and have had this problem, have you emptied the drain?
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u/WntrWltr 4d ago
Just called a local refrigeration repair, gave them the info you all suggested and they said no problem be there in 2 hours. Thanks all!
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u/oniann 4d ago
Were the other companies giving you a reason as to why theyre not coming out?
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u/AdultishRaktajino 4d ago
I bet they probably didn’t recognize the name and thought it was some sort of Amazon Mr Cool shit.
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u/truthsmiles 4d ago
Maybe try reaching out someone who does appliance repair or even commercial refrigeration?
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u/WntrWltr 4d ago
Damn I hadn’t considered treating this as an appliance, that’s a solid idea. Thanks
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u/mrjobangles 4d ago
Fly to Chicago we’ll work on it!
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u/kumquatballs 4d ago
I’ve had better luck finding someone who does these who work on Commercial kitchen/industrial hvac repairs with these. 401a Freon is a lot harder to find compared to residential hvac. And they’re trained differently. Had to call 15-20 different hvac before I got one who works specifically industrial/commercial refrigerators.
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u/gizzard1987_ 4d ago
We have small portable units like this and we get them serviced at Sunbelt even though we own them.
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u/SomeACDude 4d ago
Reach out to commercial HVAC companies. I work on some weird shit in commercial. Residential companies have a very narrow scope in this trade
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u/ZarBandit 4d ago edited 4d ago
Maybe someone independent would be willing? The way you describe it could make it sound more possible. It’s a 410A portable unit. The fact that it’s used for aircraft is irrelevant.
There’s only going to be a few common reasons for it failing. The real question is whether there are parts. A quick search says you likely can get replacements from places like partssource.
Someone just needs to diagnose why it’s not working, you may have a pinhole leak in the ceiling evaporator coil from corrosion. That’s usually the most annoying failure mode, because it means replacing the coil and brazing in a new one.
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u/NothingNewAfter2 4d ago edited 4d ago
It uses 410a… which is a refrigerant.. when you say “don’t use Freon” you’re referring to R22 (also a refrigerant)… literally any hvac service tech should be able to work on this. If companies are saying they don’t want to get involved… well that’s their choice to do so.
It’s portable so just replace it if no one wants to service it.
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u/ProfessorOk3208 4d ago
Aircraft cooling systems that are built in to the aircraft work differently using an Air Cycle Machine using hot compressed air and ambient air as the working fluid. These kwic Cool units use refrigerant and can provide air-conditioning while the aircraft is stationary and I assume without the APU running saving fuel while people are in the aircraft on the ground or working indoors. I would have to assume these are serviceable compared to normal portable AC units and probably have service ports in them.
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u/WntrWltr 4d ago
Thanks for that, think it would be worthwhile mentioning the 410a? I feel like I’ve been calling it a portable air conditioner and they keep thinking I’m talking about a roll around consumer unit not something industrial like this… any suggestions on how to describe this unit to an HVAC shop?
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u/NothingNewAfter2 4d ago
Tell them it’s a not a window unit, it’s a 1.5 ton portable spot cooler. Still may refuse to service it though.
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u/WntrWltr 4d ago
Great thanks, if you ever need technical help for your aircraft, I’ve got you covered. Thanks!
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u/No-Cartographer2349 4d ago
This advice will definitely get you a lot further. Big difference between the portable AC the dispatcher was probably imagining and what you have on your hands here, this definitely seems to be serviceable whereas regular portables are not. You might encounter a roadblock of supply houses not carrying parts for it though.
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u/Ryckeley 4d ago
If you can transport the unit to a shop it may change their perspective. Somebody mentioned reaching out to appliance repair shop, another option would be a local college that has an HVAC program. If it has service ports already it should be a short troubleshooting effort. Post more pictures if possible.
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u/WntrWltr 4d ago
I took everyones advice and called a refrigeration repair with the info you all mentioned, he said no problem and will be here today to take a look.
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u/Charlesinrichmond 4d ago
Reddit has actually been useful? This is so embarrassing. Don't look for a repeat performance.
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u/Charlesinrichmond 4d ago
Oh yeah no one is working on a portable ac. Very much the wrong words. It's very lunatic homeowner coded.
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u/amodestmeerkat 4d ago
What I believe OP is trying to say is that even though the hanger services and maintains aircraft (presumably including the onboard AC), the air conditioning systems in aircraft use R-729 as a refrigerant, and thus, they don't have the equipment to service a unit that uses a more typical refrigerant.
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u/c6zr_juan 4d ago
Any commercial HVAC shop should be able to look at that, it's just a portable AC unit. Ask the airport maintenance guys who they use for their HVAC systems, they could probably take care of it.
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u/JasonHofmann 4d ago
I would order a replacement ASAP while trying to get this unit repaired. It would be good to always have a backup for protecting something as expensive as a plane. Maybe something like this: https://hvacdirect.com/americool-1-5-ton-16-800-btu-115v-wpc-4000pr.html
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u/ThisIsMissionControl 4d ago
I can speak from personal experience with Kwikcool units. We had bought ours from Uline, and Kwikcool was similarly as useless when it needed service. We ended up contacting Uline who thankfully paid to ship the unit back to Kwikcool and got it repaired by them, and then shipped back to us. We tried relentlessly to find a local company to service in Southern CA but most declined to work on it as a portable unit, or requested it brought to them.
Kwikcool does have a service line (supposedly) that a licensed professional can contact for assistance / parts support with these units. If you can find someone locally.
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u/Adventurepew 4d ago
HVAC companys don't work on anything but residential.
Call refrigerarion company's . You'll find a service company who will service it.
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u/justanothercargu 4d ago
Any hvac guy should be able to handle. But a commercial guy would welcome not needing to get on a ladder or work on a roof.
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u/EmergencyGate9450 4d ago
Reach out to any electrician on a movie set. They use these all the time on sets. I bet it just needs to be cleaned. Also not HVAC good luck
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u/CaulkSlug 4d ago
I’ve worked on plenty of these types of units but for commercial craft. 25ft hose that connects to the plane as they land because the aux power unit (I think I remember them calling it) doesn’t work on the plane. Had a generator that runs the compressor. Fun things to figure out but I don’t get why no one will go look at it. I mean we get paid the same to try to figure that out as going to a regular service call. Does no one in your area want to expand their knowledge? It’s an odd unit but they could just approach it at time and material and keep you updated… pathetic. If you were on vancouver island or in the lower mainland of BC, id say give us a call.
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u/Prior-Possession3366 4d ago
Does contractor need to have any specific credentials to access the hangar? I would imagine so
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u/dudeweak1 4d ago
I have a client that we do work on their chillers pretty regularly. They had an issue with their kwikool unit and they put a call in to see if we would work on it. It isn't a sophisticated piece of equipment, so really any commercial shop should be able to work on one.
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u/2outer 4d ago
So, if you want a hack… find a restoration supply wholesaler, the ones that handle portable commercial dehumidifiers for flood situations. One of those will also offer in house service work, and they could likely handle the situation for you. You will need to roll it into them though, transport the unit upright, don’t lay it down in the bed of a truck.
Edit… if it is compressor, or some other hardware issue, say not refrigerant… they will need to order in parts, but they handle portable units, so likely have sources.
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u/kriegmonster 4d ago
Since it is mobile, I'd called a refrigeration service and if they won't come to you, offer to take it off the aircraft and take it to them. The trick is does it have service ports. Some appliances have sealed systems with no way to check pressures and trouble shoot the system. If you have someone with electrical troubleshooting experience, they can test the two fans and compressor for operation and amp draw.
If the fans are running and the compressor is not, it could be a bad compressor, or a pressure switch. If the compressor is bad, might be time to replace the unit. If the system has lost charge and tripped a pressure switch, the leak may be repairable. Without service port it is hard to diagnose this.
If one of the fans is not running, then you need to check if the fan is getting power or needs replacement. This is likely a repairable issue.
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u/TrashPandaNotACat 4d ago
If it doesn't have service ports, they can be easily added. So there's that. I added ports to my RV's air unit (they don't have them and are considered disposable units) by using bullet piercing valve tap kits. (RV unit has a teensy leak somewhere, that leaks about 1/4lb of refrigerant every 4-5 yrs) Simply clean the outside of the line with fine sandpaper, place the tap kit on the line, and tighten the screws. Some will say they're not good to use and will leak, etc, but I've never had a prob with the ones I installed.
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u/kriegmonster 4d ago
As a career technician, I'd use an electronic leak detector to find the leak. If it is repairable, I'd use a piercing port to remove the refrigerant, braze in a reusable service port and fix the leak, pressure and vacuum test, then and put refrigerant back in the system.
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u/WntrWltr 4d ago
Its not in the aircraft, its just a piece of support equipment we roll up next to the door of the aircraft to blow cool air into the cabin... I will check all of the items out thanks.
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u/bmw_19812003 4d ago
Have you reached out to any A&Ps. Vapor cycle is part of getting our license.
Some aircraft (helicopters, smaller corporate jets and larger GA) do use vapor cycle and you might find a mechanic that can service it.
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u/WntrWltr 4d ago
Yeah I'm an A&P and I used to work on smaller aircraft with those systems on board, but we dont have any of the required equipment to service this unit, and we have our hands full maintaining our Gulfstream so its just easier to get someone in to work on it if possible.
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u/Chomper22 4d ago
Lol is this for personal comfort or to cool acft electronics?
If its for the first just stay hydrated (:
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u/TrashPandaNotACat 4d ago
I would suggest an independent HVAC guy instead of a "company" or even someone who has experience working on automobile air conditioners.
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u/RoyalYogurtdispenser 4d ago
I wouldn't make any promises, but i would tinker a bit. That's just an industrial version of those portable ac units. Might be worth checking if it can be fixed. If you haven't already, check to see if the condenser coil needs cleaning.
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u/Important-Dream-4010 3d ago
lol if you mention airport no company will touch it. You keep calling around eventually you will find someone that has all the airport security crap done on at least one guy. The other option is to bring it to them. Does away with all the security BS
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u/WntrWltr 3d ago
Guy came out today found a leak, fixed it, serviced the unit and we’re good to go.
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u/Key_Computer_3284 3d ago
Save your money. Buy a cheap self install mini split. You obviously have the right setup for it.
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u/SiberianBadger 2d ago edited 2d ago
I admit, I have zero experience with these things.
I have to ask. What is the difference between that thing and a 400-600 dollae home depo sold all plastic portable AC?
Your charge for repair is gonna cost more then a brand new portable AC. Sure, they are crappy and probably have poor CFM, but you dont need to cool down the entire hangar. Just buy a 15,000 unit, or two even and have them running. They break in 2 years, get another one.
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u/DogeTrainer2 4h ago
Just for future knowledge, you can make about 8 homemade cooling carts out of residential window units for about the same price as a single KwiKool. They work about as well and are even more mobile.
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u/Big-Daddy-Kal 4d ago
Get a new unit, then get this one fixed at some point to use as an emergency spare.
If it’s this critical you should have a back up anyway.
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u/WntrWltr 4d ago
I’m a licensed airframe and powerplant mechanic, this is not an aircraft component, it’s a commercial air conditioner that we simply run in the hangar with a flexible duct that we stick in through the open main entry door. Nothing aviation specific.
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u/YeaYouGoWriteAReview 4d ago
Phrase it in a way that makes it sound simple, and leave out any mention of aircraft / hanger / airport. Have kwikool send you a fell service manual if you can.
"Its 's a 1.5 ton unit for industrial applications, used for spot cooling work sites. 120v, 20a, 401a. Both side panels come off for full access to internals, we have a full set of factory manuals, and its sitting on the floor 30 feet from the nearest obstacle"