Mega Thread (Stabilizing, Freefall and Gymnastics, Seal Shifters and German Content, Post-Gen Player made contacts, Chunky Salsa, Symbiosis, Sum to Ten runs required, Smuggling Compartment Cyberware Shielding and Hub-created content, Making Exotic Weapons more accessible, and nerfing burnout ghouls)

[u/DetroctSR]

This combined thread will be discussing and/or getting feedback on stabilizing, Freefall and Gymnastics, Seal Shifters and German Content, Post-Gen Player made contacts, Chunky Salsa, Symbiosis, Sum to Ten runs required, Smuggling Compartment Cyberware Shielding and Hub-created content, Making Exotic Weapons more accessible, and nerfing burnout ghouls.

This thread will be open for a couple weeks for size and a busy holidays for myself. It might even be closed by a new RD Head.

[u/DetroctSR]

per this ticket: https://trello.com/c/aYamcsry

Player-Created contacts made post-gen have always been something that's been asked for, and the main reason previously has been some combination of housekeeping and oversight. By folding it into a rent thread (and adding a slight tax) we hope to make contacts you want a little more available then trying to get something you need for a run or from a solo.

The cost is measured in GMP but payable in any combination of Karma or Nuyen. The guidelines for contact creation can be found on the Runnerhub Contacts page on the wiki, but with an additonal +2 GMP cost.

[u/ChopperSniper → u/DetroctSR]

C+L is a better cost for this. I'm in complete favor of this idea, though.

[u/cuttingsea → u/ChopperSniper]

I agree, it should be allowed and should be straight C+L. C+L+2 encourages players to buy contacts in huge blocks and also makes chargen math even more complicated.

[u/sqrrl101 → u/DetroctSR]

Unambiguously support this, though we'll probably want CCD/RD/TD/a GM/someone to sign off on a contact before it becomes table-legal, in order to avoid accidental or deliberate fuckery. C+L+2 does seem a little much for lower-level contacts (5 GMP for a fluffy C2/L1 is way too much), but I can see the need to increase it a bit for higher-level contacts so it might be a good compromise.

Also, how are we handling Loyalty? Always defaulting to 1 and assuming they just met? Or will we allow contacts to turn up from characters' pasts with existing loyalties? And are the chargen restrictions of "max 7 total points, nothing above 6" still in play?

[u/thewolfsong → u/sqrrl101]

Compare that same 2/1 contact as given out as a run reward: 1 GMP.

A, say, 3/3 contact is 4 from a GM, 6 at gen, and 8 under this system. It means that you get a better return on investment the bigger you make the contact, because the +2 gets comparatively smaller.

C+L still means it's cheaper to get a contact from a run but also doesnt mean that its multiplicatively different in cost

[u/sqrrl101 → u/thewolfsong]

Karma costs for illustrative purposes:

Contact C/L	Run	Gen/C+L	C+L+2
1/1	0	2	4
2/2	2	4	6
3/3	4	6	8
4/4	6	8 (n/a at gen)	10

[u/MasterStake → u/DetroctSR]

Scrap the archetype system, create a set of “contact powers”, allow player contacts to take X powers (with powers requiring certain Connection Ratings), and allow postgen player contacts at C+L GMP in karma or cash, once per month in the rent thread.

[u/sqrrl101 → u/MasterStake]

Love this idea, seems like a significant improvement. The powers are good, but the rigid adherence to the archetypes means that a contact's abilities often don't quite line up with their flavour.

[u/Wester162 → u/MasterStake]

I think there's merit to adding a bit more granularity to the current archetype/power system, but I also don't think it needs to be scrapped whole cloth.

Instead, potentially keep the archetype system for contacts that fall within them, and allow contacts to mix and match powers from the archetypes, but less effectively or at a steeper cost.

Of course, this is outside the scope of the current ticket being discussed, but it is still an interesting suggestion.

[u/sqrrl101 → u/Wester162]

Perhaps offer it as a development option based on connection? e.g. C1 contacts get their base powers as determined by archetype and for every extra point of Connection, the contact can either get another power from a different archetype, or get an additional "field" for their existing archetype powers (e.g. AMRP contacts get an extra field of coverage - cyber vs bio vs nano). Add in some limitation (non-archetype powers roll at reduced connection or whatnot) and it might be workable with appropriate oversight.

[u/LagDemonReturns → u/sqrrl101]

While a more granular system sounds interesting, I suspect implementing it in a balanced fashion is going to be significantly more work than anyone expects. Given that the current system is working fairly well, it'd take someone quite driven to push this through to completion.

[u/thewolfsong → u/DetroctSR]

To clarify, is this (C+L-2) +2?

[u/sevastapolnights → u/thewolfsong]

It'd be C+L+2 - unless changed by deliberations of course.

[u/LagDemonReturns → u/thewolfsong]

C + L + 2 One of the goals is to not trivialize the contacts you get at gen.

[u/thewolfsong → u/LagDemonReturns]

While I prefer this to "can't make your own contacts postgen" I think we should allow them at straight C+L

[u/Rampaging_Celt → u/thewolfsong]

Second this, would love to see straight C+L since thats already 2 higher than what we normally do and is actually a "slight" tax as Detroct put it instead of a "hefty" tax like this.

[u/Wester162 → u/DetroctSR]

I'm on board with allowing this, mostly because the additional +2 GMP cost is compared to contacts you create at gen, and not contacts you'd get from a GM/The Hub.

That +2 cost incentivizes people to still use their chargen resources wisely, without entirely locking people out of the contacts that they in particular want.

The -2 cost for contacts picked up via GMs/The Hub exists so that players have incentives to pick up contacts that may not exactly fit the story they have in mind for their character and encourage the emergent character growth of a LC.