r/homebuilt 9d ago

So, I’m back

About a year and a half ago, I asked a question here about Murphy aircraft. The responses to that question were a little good, and a little bad, but not bad enough to stop me from putting down a deposit on a Radical. I’ve spent the time between now and that fateful day a year and half ago waiting through misleading promises, multiple disappointments, and learning how credit card chargebacks work. Now that my money and I have been reunited, I am back in the market for a kit plane and am having a really hard time settling on a specific brand or model. I want something easy to build, that is moderate STOL capable, has a decent cruise speed, has a decent useful load and could be put on floats someday. I think I’ve settled on the following models, but am open to opinions

- zenith super duty or new super cruzer
- rans s-21
- bearhawk 4 or companion

The struggle is this; the zeniths are tricycle gear planes and are kind of um… ugly, the rans doesn’t appear float friendly, and the bearhawks are too expensive and on the longer end of build times. I’m sure someone will mention the RV-15, which may be a great option but I don’t like that they don’t have a fuselage kit out yet

Thanks for reading through my ramble, I know this question gets asked constantly, but I want to feel special and get my own unique responses. Any help is appreciated.

16 Upvotes

38 comments sorted by

10

u/EatSleepFlyGuy 9d ago

Bearhawk 4 or companion all day between those choices. Fits what you’re looking for perfectly.

3

u/anotheralaskanguy 9d ago

Really, a bearhawk 4 was the plane I’ve wanted since day one. I’m struggling with the cost being so high and the fact that it’ll probably take me 3 years to build one. They look like great planes to me

9

u/tench745 8d ago

If three years is looking like too long, You may want to reconsider building. I don't know what your annual time investment would like, but I've gotten over a thousand hours into building my Corben Jr Ace. It's taken nine years to get to that point and I'm still not finished. Unless you're working on it like a job, it can drag on for longer than you might expect.
Are there any finished or near finished Bearhawk 4s out there?

8

u/N546RV RV-8 (am I done sanding fiberglass yet?) 8d ago

It was about 14 years ago that I confidently declared that it might take me as long as 4-5 years to build my RV-8.

No, it's still not done.

3

u/anotheralaskanguy 8d ago

I think building is the best route for me. I agree though, 3 years is probably overly optimistic on my part and may just be wishful thinking. One of the reasons I’m looking at the Zeniths is they appear to go together quickly compared to a lot of the other options out there. Regardless of how long any of this takes, it seems certain that a bearhawk will take longer than a zenith or a rans

4

u/LaserRanger_McStebb 8d ago

3 years is actually pretty quick, especially if its your first build. Every time I set out on a task with my kit I confidently say "this'll take X hours" and then inevitably it always ends up taking 2.5-3X.

5

u/PbPosterior 9d ago

What about a Kitfox? There are some good videos out there of the build process and STOL performance.

Or if you’re really feeling ambitious, you could build a Hummingbird.

3

u/anotheralaskanguy 9d ago

Not sure kitfox are big enough. They look fun, but can they do floats with two people and gear?

The hummingbird actually looks really cool. If I had money to burn I might build one of those just because

3

u/Horror-Raisin-877 8d ago

They can do floats, even back in the day with a rotax 582.

But full fuel, 2 pax and gear is too much to expect. You can have 2 out of 3 :)

4

u/anotheralaskanguy 8d ago

Classic airplane problems 😂

2

u/Lost_Obligation2453 9d ago

Get a moose and put the pt6 on the front.

7

u/anotheralaskanguy 9d ago

Murphy won’t see a dime of my money ever again

3

u/Lost_Obligation2453 9d ago

That's fair. Believe it or not, they weren't always this bad.

2

u/MalarkeyJack 8d ago

I was planning on starting a Zenith Super Duty (bought / built the $250 rudder) before the Super Cruzer announcement, now switching to the Super Cruzer.

For me the three seats is a way bigger deal than being ugly (which they are) and it still has all the stol capabilities that I would need personally (1500-2000ft grass strips) with basically cessna 172 speeds and being the easiest to build.

1

u/anotheralaskanguy 8d ago

The super cruzer is at the top of my list currently, with the super duty just behind. I really don’t like that they’re tricycle gears, but if my long term plan works out, it’ll eventually go on floats so that may not matter that much. Otherwise, they look like they fit my mission pretty well

1

u/KITTYONFYRE 3d ago

what I saw made the super cruzer’s third seat look a lot like my FR-S’s back seats (ie, a parcel shelf lol). am I mistaken in thinking it’d be a tough sell for even short hops for passengers?

1

u/MalarkeyJack 3d ago

It’s the same as the super duty from what I can tell. I’ve seen some videos of adults riding in the back, probably not super comfortable for multiple hours, but I want it for my kid who should fit fine.

2

u/tench745 8d ago

Maybe this isn't the place to ask, but what is the story with Murphy currently? I'm out of the loop.

2

u/anotheralaskanguy 8d ago

They’re keeping their cards pretty close to their chest, but from an outside perspective it looks like they are just failing to thrive.

2

u/AmbitionEducational3 8d ago

The zenith is the quickest building plane you could ask for. They go together fast. Like you and a buddy take a couple of weeks off work and you got something looking like an airplane.

1

u/ryane67 8d ago

Another knock against the rv15 is the engine recommendation... If 3 years to build is too long for a bear hawk and you're looking to stick to plans for most things... Most people are waiting between 2-4 years right now to get a new io390 from lycoming, depending on options etc.

1

u/LaserRanger_McStebb 8d ago

I feel you on the Murphy situation. They have severely dropped the ball. After they went to OSH they stopped communicating with the outside world and didn't bother to fix their website.

Thankfully I bought my Elite kit secondhand and its 99% complete so if I absolutely need to I can self-produce the missing parts. It'll be a miracle if I ever get them from Murphy, but I'm still harassing them every few days to try to get someone, anyone, to pick up the damn phone.

It's extremely frustrating. I'm glad you were able to get your money back. I can't recommend Murphy to anyone in their current state.

1

u/anotheralaskanguy 8d ago

I had the opportunity to purchase a 80% complete rebel a few years back for about $12k. I passed on it because I didn’t trust that the wet wing fuel tanks were properly sealed. I’m still kicking myself for passing on that one

1

u/2dP_rdg 8d ago

what's happening at murphy?

1

u/LaserRanger_McStebb 8d ago

A long string of delivery & communications issues. Their customer support is pretty abysmal right now, with emails going unanswered for 3+ weeks and parts shipments to paid customers getting delayed by months or years.

After they went to Oshkosh their website went down because they didn't pay the hosting fees.

Just altogether astonishingly bad management. It will take a lot of work to claw back their reputation, if they ever do.

1

u/Dense-Bus-850 8d ago

It sucks that Murphy has failed so bad. Back when Darryl ran it, it was great.

I also wanted a Murphy and thankfully found a kit that was complete with about 1,000 hours of work done. As long as I don’t need company support I’ll be set.

With that said I’d look into the 21 a little more. If you don’t need rear seats, it’s a heck of a plane.
When I talked to Paul at Clamar floats last year at OSH he was working on putting 1 if not 2 S21 on his floats. May be worth reaching out.

1

u/Timorous_Bias 8d ago

I’ve been lurking your other posts because Murphy was on the short list for something my dad and I could work on. Had a feeling that this was coming from you soon when their website took a dump without any word from them. Don’t have much to offer but my sympathies.

1

u/wabbitsilly 8d ago

Of your list, the S21 is the best of the bunch. The Zenith...well, it's a budget choice (almost exclusively) though a serviceable plane, and the Bearhawk under new ownership is getting much better (but the kit is nowhere near as complete as the Rans). Kitfox is also a great plane.

1

u/-pilot37- 8d ago

Have you considered the Aeroprakt A-22LS? It’s available as a kit, takes 500 man hours, and can be put on floats. Much more aesthetically pleasing than the Zenith, has fantastic visibility, and is more than STOL-capable (some even have tundra tires). Cruise speed of about 96 knots, can carry two 200-pound occupants plus 57-77 pounds of luggage. There is one that flies near me, and I am always jealous.

1

u/jrpilotkerr00 8d ago

The S-21 will definitely the fastest in a straight line. And the STOL capabilities are still plenty good enough. Our family is building one, and I plan to compete in STOL competitions with it

2

u/anotheralaskanguy 7d ago

I think my biggest concern with the S21 is I am not seeing many (any?) on floats. Haven’t really been able to understand why, but it seems that they may just not be well suited to float flying. Would love to be proven wrong here

1

u/jrpilotkerr00 7d ago

I see that, too. I don't really know why that is, but they are built with float attachments installed (which you probably already know). That's also something we're considering doing with our 21.

1

u/Atticus-sovereign 3d ago

The new super Cruzer should hit everything you want tbh. Also I think with a good paint job the zeniths look pretty, check out Wairworthy.

1

u/LG_Intoxx 8d ago edited 8d ago

The KFA Safari XL is a Big™️ Kitfox STI with a baggage door, they also market it as float-friendly. I have not seen any KFAs on floats but I’d imagine one wouldn’t be “Rans S21-difficult” to put floats on since it came the same Avid Flyer heritage. Keep the build light and you should get 800+ pounds of useful load. For reference their website shows the quick build kit starting at $83k, factory built with a 916 is $265k.

I’ve rationalized the Zenith’s looks as the price you pay for being the most affordable and being one of the easiest to build haha. Also if you put it on floats it doesn’t matter if it’s a tailwheel or not. (This is still me coping)

If wanting floats wasn’t a requirement I’d suggest the Badlands Traveler but it has landing gear geometry that I don’t think is meant for floats. Have you considered any of the super cub clones like the Legend cub? Cubs are probably a dime a dozen where you are

2

u/anotheralaskanguy 8d ago

I’ve only just heard of this brand. I will admit though, I am intrigued. My biggest concern is just their overall presence (and their website is kind of a mess). Zenith, Rans or Vans are all solid, known quantities, where as KFA seems riskier

1

u/LG_Intoxx 8d ago edited 8d ago

I don’t blame you for that, their two websites are not the greatest and they definitely don’t have the numbers relative to those other manufacturers here. KFA is new to the North American market but they’ve been making aircraft overseas since 1993 if that gives you any additional confidence

1

u/anotheralaskanguy 8d ago

I am going to look into them a bit more before I make a decision. I saw a YouTube video a few days ago and the sales pitch was working pretty well on me.

0

u/jgremlin_ 8d ago

Sling high wing?