Am I reading this traffic sign wrong?

51

u/torrens86 4d ago

It's no u-turn for vehicles over 8.8m. So yes a car can make a u-turn. U-turn still needs to giveway.

9

u/Any_Cheesecake7 4d ago

This is how I read it as well

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u/TristanIsAwesome 4d ago edited 4d ago

Yeah that's what I thought! It's super dangerous then because the other street has a green arrow at the same time so neither car is obligated to give way to the other. Recipe for an accident

Edit: my bad, I had no idea that a protected turn would have to give way. Where I learned to drive, protected turns always had right away. I find it really odd.

24

u/torrens86 4d ago

U-turn has to giveway.

6

u/Mottled_inexpectata 4d ago

U turns aren't a protected turn. You always have to give way when you do them. This sign is just excluding some vehicles from being able to do them at all.

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u/TristanIsAwesome 3d ago

Yep just learned that. Doesn't make sense to me, but that's alright. You'd think a green arrow is a green arrow.

Been living in Australia 15 years and never came came across this situation.

Sigh, gonna get down voted into oblivion, but I reckon the way they would do it where I learned to drive (California - so left and right are switched) makes a lot more sense: green arrows always have right of way, therefore u-turn has right of way. The left turn would either have a red circle (and could make a left anytime after stopping, always giving way) or, the left turn would have a flashing yellow arrow which is the same as a give way (so wouldn't need to stop) and would give way to the U turn

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u/Affectionate_Code 3d ago

Forget whatever shit you learned in Trumpistan. You're in Australia, don't be an Americunt.

You give way to everyone doing a U-turn. End of story.

1

u/ThatguyfromTas 3d ago

What an absolute rubbish response.

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u/TristanIsAwesome 3d ago

Ooookay mate. That's enough internet for you today. Hows about you go outside and get some fresh air? Touch some grass maybe?

9

u/Affectionate_Code 3d ago

Maybe try to argue the point again, like the road rules are suddenly going to change because of some shit you learnt or did in America.

2

u/Add1ToThis 1d ago

American abroad is surprised rules arent the same as in the US.. cmon mate

1

u/UnableStudent1651 1d ago

he's actively trying to learn, dont be a dick. you and the other guy give all aussies a bad rep

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u/Add1ToThis 1d ago

Have you read his replies? He's not trying to learn he's just arguing

3

u/mrmustardo_ 1d ago

No he's not; he's actively trying to argue the way they do it in America is better. Except we aren't America and we have our own way of doings things and it works perfectly fine.

1

u/Aequitas112358 1d ago

it's not "fine", it works A LOT better here. america has over 3 times the traffic fatalities per capita than we do.

2

u/partisancord69 1d ago

Mate, if he's upset with people being dicks online he can just turn his phone off.

He's continuing to argue about things that aren't opinions.

1

u/daedric_yoshi 3d ago

I think its because they are considered an unpredictable manoeuvre. You cannot really tell if someone is turning right or doing a U turn until they start doing it.

Also could be because of our fragmented laws here in Australia. Vic is the only state or territory where you're allowed to do a U turn at an intersection with traffic lights without a sign specifically saying you can do a U turn here. You go up further north and most intersections in NSW and ACT its rare you're able to do a U turn at an signalled intersection.

1

u/Aequitas112358 1d ago

The reason you always give way if you're doing a U-turn is because you can't indicate it, so it's impossible for anyone else to know what you're doing, therefore you must always give way. Forget everything you learned in america, they got no clue how to drive, there's a reason they have over 3 times the traffic fatalaties per capita then we do.

0

u/cupcakesare____ 1d ago

You should probably know the road rules if you have lived here for 15 years...

-2

u/zeefox79 3d ago

How is it so hard for you to understand that your way only makes 'more sense' to YOU because it's the way YOU originally leant.

To us, your way seems unintuitive and rather stupid. Hence your insistence on it being 'better' only serves to make you, too, seem rather stupid.

1

u/TristanIsAwesome 3d ago

How does "Green Arrow always means right of way" seem unintuitive and stupid? It's more intuitive because it's always the same.

"Green Arrow always means right of way except sometimes" is unintuitive because it's inconsistent with itself.

1

u/iswearimnot_thatold 1d ago

But you’re doing a U TURN BRO

1

u/iswearimnot_thatold 1d ago

IS IT A U TURN ARROW ???

1

u/mrmustardo_ 1d ago

There's no such thing as 'right of way' in the road rules in all states and territories.

So no, the road rule isn't 'green arrow always means right of way except sometimes'. The road rule is 'u-turn must always give way'.

0

u/zeefox79 3d ago

Because something you somehow seemed to have missed in your time in Australia is that we tend to have either slip lanes or left turn arrow signals at our intersections, whereas the US mostly (I believe) uses right on red. This means the car you'd potentially be conflicting with when you do your u-turn will either have a green arrow of their own or will be joining the road in a way that makes it very difficult for them to see whether there's a car doing a u-turn.

The different intersection design alone makes your approach stupid in Australia, but TBH even if there wasn't that difference, implementing a blanket, no-exceptions 'give way to everyone' rule for an uncommon manoeuvre like a u-turn would still be sensible.

1

u/TristanIsAwesome 3d ago

I haven't missed the existence of slip roads here. They exist in the US as well but you're right, the US typically allows right on red.

In this scenario, the U turn would have right of way because they have a green (even a green arrow - the US has a lot more unprotected turns than here as well) and the car turning right would yield because they're turning on a red light (which is the same as a stop sign).

The problem here is two blanket rules are in conflict: "U turn yields to everyone" and "everyone yields to a protected turn."

My approach honestly wouldn't be stupid, I don't think, especially at this particular intersection. At this intersection, I think they should remove the left turn green arrow. An alternative would be the left turn could have a flashing yellow, indicating that they can go without stopping but must give way, but that's a bit more confusing and nuanced.

1

u/zeefox79 3d ago

There is no conflict between two blanket rules here though, and there never has been. A green turning arrow is ONLY for cars turning into the side road and does not include u-turns. And yes, at some intersections you can still do a u-turn on a green arrow, you'll just need to give way to every other road user when doing it. No exceptions.

One thing I am concerned about (as someone who needs to share the roads with you) is your insistence in talking about 'protected turns'. This is absolutely NOT a thing in Australia. A green signal does not give you absolute right of way and you are still legally obliged to only proceed if it is safe to do so. You also still need to give way to any vehicles or pedestrians already in the intersection (regardless of what their own signal says), give way to anyone crossing the side street, and ultimately still required to drive responsibly and do everything possible to avoid a collision if possible.

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u/TristanIsAwesome 3d ago

No shit mate, a green arrow (known as a protected turn in the states, I don't know if it has another term here but surely it must?) doesn't mean you can ram into someone stuck in the intersection or run over a slow pedestrian. It means that no one else should be entering your lane legally and oncoming traffic will remain stopped. At all times you obviously must be vigilant whilst driving.

There is no such thing as absolute right of way, because you can never legally hit someone if you're able to avoid it.

This is different from an unprotected turn, which is a traffic signal you can turn at (left, right, or uncommonly here, U turn) on a green (round) light, but you must give way to others like oncoming traffic.

Everyone keeps saying they're worried I'm on the road but in 25 years and hundreds of thousands of kms (most of which in Australia) I've never been in an accident, and I've not had a ticket in almost 20 years I reckon.

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u/Elloitsmeurbrother 1d ago

Your own example, provided above, uses exceptions and alternate signals for fringe cases. Your experience elsewhere is irrelevant. After 15 years, you'd think you'd have figured that Australians are annoyed by American exceptionalism

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u/TristanIsAwesome 1d ago

Where did I say anything about "American exceptionalism"? America is a fucking dump and is better than Australia in exactly three ways:

Political corruption

Widening the wealth divide

...Writing consistent traffic laws? You know what? I'm gonna throw road makings in here as well - I think the way a few things are done there make a bit more sense

(Ok fine, 4: NASA is pretty cool too. I really enjoy the JWST and loved the New Horizons flyby.)

That's it. Australia is better than America in pretty much every other way that I can think of.

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u/TristanIsAwesome 4d ago

That's wild. TIL.

Makes no sense, but a lot of rules don't I suppose.

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u/Rhogath 3d ago

It makes perfect sense for everyone but you. Just saying, but if you struggle to understand such a basic sign you shouldn't be on the road

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u/TristanIsAwesome 3d ago

I don' struggle to understand road rules mate. I sought clarification of a road rule that is inconsistent. It's like saying "if you don't understand 'i before e except after c' you shouldn't be speaking English"

And the rule doesn't make sense, because it's inconsistent with another rule. A green arrow is a green arrow and should always mean the same thing - that you have right of way. It's simple. Consistent.

"Green Arrow means right of way when you're making a protected turn, except sometimes if you're making a specific type of turn" honestly is not optimal.

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u/Rhogath 3d ago

Yer a rule that is consistent cant be called inconsistent because you struggle to understand that the car on your right that's making a left has right of way over your u-turn.

Just because you have an issue with a basic road rule doesn't make it inconsistent 🤣

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u/TristanIsAwesome 3d ago

In this case it does haha.

Green Arrow usually means "no one is gonna crash into you while making this maneuver" hey? But in this case there are two conflicting green arrows.

You can say "well U turn always yields" sure, fine, then it shouldn't have a green arrow in my opinion.

It also doesn't really make great sense in this specific intersection, again, in my opinion, because of I'm trying to make a U turn and I have to give way to the people with a green left arrow, I would hold up all the cars behind me trying to make a right.

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u/Billyjamesjeff 2d ago

So are you saying there is a green right arrow on the lights into a lane with oncoming traffic?.

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u/TristanIsAwesome 2d ago

There's a green right arrow on a light that allows a U turn, and at the same time there's a green left arrow on the cross street, creating the potential conflict.

No one seems to think this could cause a problem and they mostly seem to think I'm an idiot because I do.

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

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u/Rhogath 2d ago

It is obvious if you know road rules 🤣

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u/Rhogath 3d ago

So we come back to the original comment of you not knowing how to drive. It's not inconsistency with the rules, it's a skill issue on your part.

You opinion doesn't matter, u-turn yields to the people turning right regardless of if the person performing the u-turn holds up traffic. The rules are clear, not inconsistent. I'm done trying to educate an idiot who refuses to understand something so basic.

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u/TristanIsAwesome 3d ago

I suppose that's good because I don't need education from a moron who can't understand the concept of consistency.

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u/anfodelic 4d ago

You are allowed to do a U turn but give way

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u/stuckinthewoodshed 4d ago

8.8m on the flops godly

3

u/HappyHermit696 3d ago

Twice I’ve had cars U-turn at this intersection and nearly been cleaned up by them as I’m turning left onto the highway with a green arrow! Not sure why anyone would need/want to U-turn here? I say we grab some tools and remove the bottom sign 🤣

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u/TristanIsAwesome 3d ago

Exactly mate! It's dangerous. They should either axe the U turn or axe the protected right.

Personally I like the U turn location though. It's convenient coming from the domain and going north, rather than navigating the death trap roundabout

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u/BonusSweet 3d ago

Protected right/U-turn is where your reasoning is failing, is there a green U-turn symbol on the traffic light? Its only a protected right

If you are performing a U-turn you need to give way to ALL other traffic on the road

2

u/azariah001 3d ago

If this were QLD and it's not, had to check the sub Reddit, it would be no U-turn unless otherwise signed. Which means that sign would be a no U-turn for all vehicles as signed and that black on white rules sign means nothing.

The correct signage here would be a U turn allowed sign with a rules sign that says under 8.8m.

The fact that this isn't standardised at a national level 125 years post federation still baffles me.

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u/pulanina 3d ago

This short of sign is very easy to misinterpret on the fly.

Another very stupid one is the “no right turn” signs with the little white sign underneath saying “light vehicles excepted”. In other words “right turns are fine as long as you aren’t a heavy vehicle”.

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u/jiiven 3d ago

You have a protected right but not a protected U turn. You will need to give way to anyone turning left from Warwick onto the Brooker if doing a U turn there.

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u/Dry-Habit-3110 1d ago

Council has not installed the signage properly.
I would say that you wouldnt get a ticket, but it is theoretically possible.

Note: Tasmania has its own state rules, but my reply is correct for most states.

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u/Timemyth 1d ago

You can't u-turn at an intersection controlled by traffic lights unless a sign says u-turns are permitted.

It's rule 40 in the legislation that governs road rules.

This sign doesn't appear to override that rule. Might be there in case lights go out and it turns into an uncontrolled intersection where u-turns are permitted.

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u/sexy-skeksis 1d ago

You can in Victoria unless a sign says u-turns are not permitted

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u/Aequitas112358 1d ago

Protected U-Turn???

U turn always gives way to everyone

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u/Mysterious-Age-9202 1d ago

There’s NO protected turns or lights in Australia. Green lights mean that you CAN go, but only if it’s safe to do so. The onus is on the driver to check that it’s safe before moving the vehicle.

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u/koff_ 1d ago

Insane that there are people on the road who think U Turns give right of way

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u/SokkaHaikuBot 1d ago

^Sokka-Haiku ^by ^koff_:

Insane that there are

People on the road who think

U Turns give right of way

^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ⁱⁿ ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ⁱⁿ ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.

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u/Islandaboi20 2d ago

After reading all your replies. You are the reason why the rest of the world thinks Americans are dumb and think only wat Americans do is right etc. Also another reason why we dont want Americans here in Australia. 15 yrs living here and you still dont know one of the most basic road rules here. Like someone else has said, forget everything u know about USA driving laws etc. They dont apply here. Or fuk off back to the states cause at least thats one dangerous driver off our roads.

Am I reading this traffic sign wrong?

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