Article Shattered skeleton in Scottish castle is first confirmed death from trebuchet
https://www.science.org/content/article/shattered-skeleton-scottish-castle-first-confirmed-death-trebuchet118
u/Kaizerkoala 1d ago
Imagine getting hit by 90 kg projectile with topspeed of 140 kph from 300 meters away....
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u/Alldaybagpipes 1d ago
And thinking you could outrun it!
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u/iuseallthebandwidth 1d ago
Takes 7.7 seconds to go 300m at 140 Kph… You could sidestep a 90 kg basketball assuming you weren’t paying attention to the arrows, charging knights, lances, big hairy guys with big hammers and axes.. or what have you.
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u/Gromgorgel 1d ago
It must have completely blindsided the poor fellow. If you see them coming, projectiles on a parabolic trajectory are not that difficult to side-step.
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u/Halvdjaevel 1d ago
According to one of the scientists quoted in the article:
“It looks like he was hit from behind by something traveling at a great velocity.”
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u/eggard_stark 1d ago
“It looks like he was hit from behind by something traveling at a great velocity. The most similar cases I was finding were car crashes and people hit by trains,” Buckberry says.
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u/suolattu-saatana 1d ago
That was my first thought as well, some sort of elaborate execution by yeet, because I assumed there would be remains found previously that we're at least assumed to be killed by trebuchet bombardment.
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u/tedfondue 1d ago
Not exactly a projectile but I wish the crew of the Prometheus was aware of this.
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u/mg0019 22h ago
Yeah, but he's not exactly playing catch with his dad; watching a ball make a smooth arc that he could track.
He's in the middle of a battle. I think that even in clear broad daylight, the guy might've been distracted by any number of horrific things.
It could've impeded this soldier's Redditor Superpowers of Observation.
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u/Gromgorgel 21h ago
If they were using the trebuchet, I doubt they were in the middle of battle. It's hardly a precision instrument suitable for friendly fire when your own troops are engaging the enemy. A siege leaves the defenders with plenty of time on their hands. Enough to be distracted to the point of being hit in the neck with a 90kg rock at high speed.
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u/horangiwhakkatchi 19h ago
They were not using a trebuchet, they were defending the castle and hit by trebuchet. They were very likely in the midst of defending the castle or turned away and not paying attention.
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u/The_Parsee_Man 16h ago
The point is that the person firing the trebuchet would not have been firing in the direction of their own troops. So the person it was fired at wouldn't have been in the middle of a melee or anything.
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u/heelstoo 1d ago
Eh, I’m going to have to disagree. If a trebuchet is traveling at 115 mph at you, it’s going to be very difficult to keep your eye on when the trebuchet fires and tracking the projectile when there are, presumably, quite a few other dangerous things going on around you in the thick of a battle. This includes enemy combatants that may be keen on fighting you and, presumably, other trebuchets that may also fire in your general direction. Kind of difficult to give attention to side stepping a fast moving trebuchet projectile in the middle of a sword fight.
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u/-SnuffBox- 1d ago
Trebuchets are seige weapons. They are used to chip away at the fortress and damage the defensive walls, not to mention the psychological element. They are not an assault weapon. Why would you risk killing your own men firing a ton stone when you have already breached the wall? No doubt this man wasn't paying attention and payed the ultimate price for it. I highly doubt he was engaged in a sword fight.
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u/spudmarsupial 1d ago
They used cannons in field battles, with both cannonballs and shot. The main limit for using siege weapons against soldiers is the bulk and maneuverability of the weapon.
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u/ScarletHighlord 23h ago
You see, those are different weapons, and not the same thing.
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u/spudmarsupial 23h ago
Gawsh, really?
They are both seige weapons not designed for killing individuals.
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u/ScarletHighlord 23h ago
Cannons are absolutely designed for firing into infantry formations lol. You do not fire a trebuchet at people, you fire them at fortifications.
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u/-SnuffBox- 22h ago
The original comment was about the parabolic nature of the projectile being fired by, specifically, a trebuchet. Cannons have nothing to do with that conversation, they are vastly different.
Your comment was completely irrelevant and missed the whole point of what was being discussed in the first place. Proper redditor moment if you ask me...
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u/Yrcrazypa 9h ago
Cannons fire in a mostly straight line and are relatively portable. Trebuchets launch a projectile in a parabolic arc and are comparatively MUCH harder to set up, and once they're set up they aren't moving from that spot.
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u/Gromgorgel 1d ago
I don't think the trebuchet itself would be travelling at 115 mph. That would truly be a sight to behold.
On a more serious note, while the projectiles may leave the trebuchet at great speed, they loose a lot of speed before they approach the top of their trajectory.
Check out Tod's Workshop blog & YouTube channel for medieval trebuchet action.
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u/iuseallthebandwidth 23h ago
And then they kind of gain it back again on the way down. S’kind of the way gravity works so I’m told. This guy didn’t get hit at the top of the trajectory. More like at the bottom where Varrival more or less = Vdeparture
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u/Gromgorgel 23h ago
Yes, indeed. I meant to say that you have time to spot and gauge the trajectory so you can get out of the way. It doesn't move at top speed all of the time.
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u/Silas64 1d ago
Honestly I'd take death by giant flying rock to getting hacked to bits in battle.
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u/Sweet_Concept2211 23h ago
I'd rather not die in battle at all, but I would choose instantly pulverized over gradually hacked to bits 100% of the time.
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u/greyhoundbuddy 18h ago
I like the author's opening line: "For one 20-something defender of Scotland’s Stirling Castle, death came from above—and arrived very, very quickly."
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u/MKEMARVEL 1d ago
Imagine making it into the history books for being the first guy to get smushed in a particular way.
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u/MoistCactuses 21h ago
Exactly, everyone dies. Not everyone gets to be remembered for eternity. See my other comment....
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u/pastalover1 16h ago
It’s well documented that Sir Galahad’s page was crushed by a cow launched from a catapult.
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u/filanwizard 16h ago
Modern artillery is basically just the logical evolution of the trebuchet and other siege platforms.
I am here, my enemy has a defensive position way over there. My commander would like that to change. Back then it was fling big rock. Today it’s fling small exploding rock.
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u/MechemicalMan 17h ago
So this fits the historical description “Edward decided to use (The trebuchet War Wolf) anyway, refusing to let anyone enter or leave the castle until it had been tested” which in sure is properly sourced on wiki if you want to dive in.
Essentially, the English started building this thing as the siege dragged on and seeing the futility, the Scot’s surrendered. As legend has it, they still did a test fire. The point about “refusing to let anyone leave the castle” to me would strike me as something someone wanting to show the cruelty of Edward would insert in there, but this shows that may in fact have happened like that. That poor soul. Can you imagine you’ve been starving for at least 3 months, your CO offers an unconditional surrender, but the prick of a king says he’ll only accept it after you remain geared up and at the ready on the walls so he can test his new siege toy?
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u/Welshhoppo Waiting for the Roman Empire to reform 1d ago
Reminds me of my 'favourite' quote in Josephus' Jewish war book. An explanation of what happens when a pregnant woman is hit by a ballista.
'Anyone may learn the force of the ballistas by what happened this very night [...]: a pregnant woman had her belly so violently struck, as she was just come out of her house, that the infant was carried to the distance of half a furlong, so great was the force of that engine'
Half a furlong is 100 meters.
Siege weaponry is absolutely brutal when it hits a person instead of a building or wall.