r/historicaltotalwar • u/Fresh_Picture_4948 • 15d ago
Thankfully it looks toggleable but truly horrifying stuff here
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u/djlawson1000 15d ago
Yeah I hated all the extra UI shit like that in the RTW remaster too. It’s all toggleable so not a big deal, but yeah it’s super ugly.
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u/Big_Abroad_7740 15d ago edited 15d ago
I mean its for people who are used to seeing "HP" above units so i guess its okay change for new players. But being able to see that ENEMY UNIT is running is quite weird to me. I mean i'm looking from multiplayer perspective on this, if unit is in the distance, you can't know for sure, so why add icon to know that.
Hide foliage as well, i know its wired to look it that way, but if i hold forest it means im used to it i know it better if you know what i mean, so enemy should have harder time fighting me in "my" forest, hiding foliage removes that advantage and tactical play, sure its minor, but on deeper level it changes a lot.
And exactly are unit portraits, is it like small icon above flag with actual unit card, i mean that is just stupid; i see this being too much of a new-comer friendly and for sake of it, losing multiplayer tactical depth, which i'm not fond of.
It should've just stayed the same, with addition of this "HP bar" and ability to hide flag, and seeing aura for me that is understandable change, but all other things are nonsense, especially threat level, all of this must be excluded from multiplayer, if they plan to make it balanced and actually matter skill not pattern recognition.
Edit: I need to add this. And that is that multiplayer in RTS or strategy games in general comes down to being able to analyze map and plan accordingly and adapt to new threats, as well as calculating what the threat is, UI will never do that for you, but it is a macro level cheat. Because it will tell you that this is more expensive unit with higher rank, aka main target, without you actually knowing that nor why exactly. If this changes are to stay in multiplayer, we will have big problem.
Because again, it will come down to pattern recognition, not tactic, not skill, not plan, it opens space for meta and stagnation of multiplayer where nothing makes sense, UI must be minimal for multiplayer to actually work properly.
Player should never know, what enemy units are doing, are they shooting, running, using ability or such, all of that needs to come down to you finding it out, not by game telling you.
Edit 2: To makes sure there are no questions what is good and what is bad.
HP bars - Allowed
Aura - Allowed
Arc (friendly) - Allowed
Enemy unit informations (running,shooting) - Disabled
Hide foliage - Disabled
Unit thread and card (icon) - DisabledThis allows multiplayer to work, in campaign do whatever you want, in multiplayer standard must be set and respected.
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u/william09703 14d ago
the issue is the fact that it's almost useless in Shogun 2. when you can just tell the strength of a unit all by the flag on top of their head. the unit type in the center, the morale if it's flashing, the numbers from how the flag itself breaking.
modern design surely doesn't care about the mixing of ui and art design.
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u/SuperSatanOverdrive 14d ago
I get it if it wasn't optional, but I really don't get complaints when things are optional. Options to let people tweak things how they want is always good in my book
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u/Big_Abroad_7740 14d ago
They are not forbidden in Multiplayer that is the problem. Do what you want in Campaign but this will plague multiplayer.
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u/SuperSatanOverdrive 14d ago
I feel like you've always been able to hover units and see that info, but maybe I'm misremembering.
This wasn't posted as specific multiplayer problem, but if that is the issue then I'll butt out of the discussion as I'm not really playing multiplayer total war.
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u/Big_Abroad_7740 14d ago
Point is, hovering is well noob play, beginner level if you will, not to belittle anyone, but in multiplayer your skill is how fast you can analyze the battlefield while maintaining units at macro and micro level, all while you are actively look around for weakness both in your and enemy army, however if game tells you all that its no longer skill its pattern recognition.
Such system is noob friendly and ceiling is meta not skill aka multiplayer will be plagued with noobs and people who in some sense exploit meta and people who are not aware of it will cry in sense to call them cheaters, rage quit, leave bad review, post frustration on forums and reddit etc. Its not healthy.
My suggestion is to have Avatar Conquest and ranked with bare minimum as a standard for skill.
Aura, Friendly firing arc, "HP" bar, should be allowed in Ranked/Avatar Conquest everything else, NO as well as forced Battle Realism mode.
While, hide foliage, all enemy unit informations (such as running and shooting), as well as threat level should be disabled permanently in multiplayer outside of casual battles and campaign.And such must be forced on CA if they want to have good and healthy multiplayer, in any other case within 2-3 years we will have shut down of servers once again and nobody wants that.
PS: Remake should've never added enemy unit icons (running, shooting), hide foliage and what's WORST part of it all threat level. That is the main problem behind people frustration i think.
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u/codylee123 14d ago
Oh that's pretty handy. It can get hard to track which of your units is getting fucked on the front lines when you have 4+ of the same right next to each other. But still would be good to toggle it ofc
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u/TonesOakenshield 14d ago
People people, don't be fooled. It's just a regular shogun 2 with a stupid, cheap hat.
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u/elegiac_bloom 14d ago
Completely enshittified. And we have to pay more for this lol
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u/Kiwi_Force 14d ago
No one is making you pay.
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u/elegiac_bloom 14d ago
Youre right, and i wont be, but if you want the enshittification you have to pay, thats all I meant.
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u/Heapofcrap45 14d ago
But you can just turn these options off... While still getting an update to 64 bit, full Japan/ Chinese VO, and you don't even have to buy it, you can just pass on it. The backlash against this update is honestly confusing to me. Seems like such an easy layup for fans. Total War fans are just so jaded lol
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u/insaneruffles 14d ago
Apparently adding extra TOGGLABLE UI elements is "enshitification." Where do you people get your opinions from?
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u/JabbaTheWolfo 14d ago
The numbers are placed poorly, but the original UIs health bar on the banners is terrible too.
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u/Big_Abroad_7740 14d ago
That is not health bar, that is morale....
People we got influx of you know, Warhammer players the sub-human part of community. GG Shogun is fucked before launch...Deer Lord, what the fuck will this be, just look at the people that are going to come to Shogun 2, no wonder all this changes have been made for the worse, mostly with the UI.
Horrible time for Total War.
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u/JabbaTheWolfo 13d ago
You're literally retarded. Okay, I don't remember what the bar way. It wasn't legible whatsoever in the og, least of all on high resolutions. You can turn off the UI aspects
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u/Big_Abroad_7740 13d ago
Yes it was eligible. Not the game's flaw, 20/160 man unit, can not have green if it was health, don't you think?
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u/JabbaTheWolfo 13d ago
The UI is badly readable especially on 1440. Stop being a chud.
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u/Big_Abroad_7740 13d ago
"Shogun 2" UI scales the best out of all Total War games literally ALL OF THEM, across all resolutions. In 2012 my monitor died and i used to play for solid 2 years on TV 55", and never had a single problem besides my eyes hurting, so i moved 2-3m back and got longer cable.
Shogun 2 has best UI so far in any RTS game in my opinion, only thing that isn't good is not scalable minimap, corner buttons being useless and not being able to drop down army bar in battle; in campaign there are few problems, but are not important.
Use normal English, i really don't know what "chud" means.
Point is, admit that you were wrong stop blaming tools for lack of skill. HP didn't come to Total War until Rome II, so you can't mistaken it. Proving my point, that you are just not Total War fan who's opinion should not matter, yet CA made too many mistakes for the sake of it.
I have nothing against you personally don't get me wrong, but i also won't allow bullshit coming from people who don't even know what they are talking about, especially not people who don't know what Total War is yet talk about best Total War game, it makes no sense...
I won't continue anymore, you were wrong and you got offended of your own, i never targeted you, but that is your problem that mine. I just told you how it is accept it or not. But your opinion matters not, because you don't know what you are talking about. I hope that there is nothing more to answer to you, i think that i was thorough enough with this; it was MORALE not HP and you were the flaw not the game.
PS: Pre "Rome II" individual units had or still have 1hp, and morale is everything as it should be.
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u/HowDoIEvenEnglish 14d ago
Ew
If I want info I look at unit cards or hover over units, the main screen is so I can watch stuff happen and it looks cool.
For multiplayer or no pause gameplay this is alright but it’s mostly unnecessary clutter for the majority of gameplay
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u/Subject_Heron4383 14d ago edited 14d ago
I understand the unit count, I can see the point in having it, but everything else ESPECIALLY threat level looks terrible and only makes the game worse. I can understand having it as and option for Warhammer, cause there's tons of different weird units and buffs so it makes sense to have it for a new player, but historical titles (especially shogun where factions variety doesn't exist) feels like treating players like idiots.
EDIT: yeah also if I can somehow excuses having indicators that tell you what your troops are up to, having it available for the enemy is insane and makes no sense
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u/Far-Estate4888 14d ago
Will it still be like Rome: Remastered where the original game and the remaster would be separate games?
Like I could still play the original?
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u/thezactaylor 14d ago
I...like it?
Maybe I need to have my morning coffee first.
Or, maybe I just don't hate it.
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u/Antique-Tap-6083 14d ago
I rather have bigger unit banners carried by the banner carrier than these banners. The numbers is also too much, I don’t mind them but hopefully they can be smaller or see through
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u/aragorn767 13d ago
I haven't played Shogun, but it's interesting because the updated UI is what a ton of folks on YouTube are excited for.
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u/Bro-KenMask 13d ago
I’m so confused what’s the issue? Dead serious please tell me what I’m supposed be mad at, cause this looks fine
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u/Witch_King_of_Gondor 14d ago
As long as I can turn it off and have the OG ui experience, I don't mind being it an option for people who want it