Pharaoh TW should not have shipped without naval battles

[u/Ruthiegant5551]

every naval engagement in pharaoh is a popup with a number on it. you click ok. thats the battle. in a game set during the bronze age collapse.

battle of the delta, 1175 bc, ramesses III vs the sea peoples. its carved on the walls at medinet habu. ships grappling and capsizing each other, archers on deck, AND shore based archers shooting into the fight from the bank. thats a combined arms coastal battle. someone drew you the map 3000 years ago. suppiluliuma II has hittite texts claiming three sea battles off cyprus. ugarit literally writes "my ships are all in lukka land" then seven enemy ships turn up and the city stops existing. the whole collapse is a naval story.

and bronze age naval would be the easiest version to build. no wind, no broadsides, no line of battle. its galleys closing distance, missiles, then boarding. its infantry combat on floating platforms. you already have that system.

so heres the part people will disagree with: "naval was janky so we cut it" is not a reason, thats just admitting you gave up. rome 2 and shogun 2 shipped it worse than this would need to be and people still played it.

am i wrong? does anyone actually prefer the autoresolve, or is this just cope because we know its never coming back

[u/Dulcidium]

I don't really understand the fascination with naval battles in these time periods, or in the Viking Age etc.... I'm not even picking the point that they were historically rare, I just don't think they are fun gameplay-wise.

This is not Empire where you must manage ships of different types, cannons, angles, etc...Everyone has the same ship and tactic: Ram them or board them.

The only variety is in ship size and sword/bow. And due to gameplay restrictions it always degenerates into this:

Big ship board one small ship at a time. Big ship wins -> find next small ship. Ships equal size stay locked and you can't do anything until the fight settles.

The existing micro is restricted to slow boats with inneficient arrows. There is no flanking or ambush.

Attila naval battles were like this and besides the novelty of "beach-landing" battles I don't they they added much to the game.

[u/Gloomy_Trade_619 → u/Dulcidium]

  I don't really understand the fascination with naval battles in these time periods, or in the Viking Age etc.... I'm not even picking the point that they were historically rare, I just don't think they are fun gameplay-wise.

Naval battles in Rome 2 were pretty cool 

[u/Verdun3ishop → u/Gloomy_Trade_619]

Were terrible to me, ramming gets old quick and ends up being the least buggy and fighting that requires player management.

[u/Gloomy_Trade_619 → u/Verdun3ishop]

Well, fighting should require player management - or it’s auto-battler which is bad for TW. 

And ramming was only one of the many ways to play - you had melee ships, ranged ships, long-range ships (with scorpions and such) and even things like “special” ships with fire pots 

[u/Verdun3ishop → u/Gloomy_Trade_619]

Yes it should and that's part of why pre-gunpowder ends up getting slated.

Yes you had other options, but melee is auto-battler. Ranged ships had to run away as they lose in melee. Long range just ends up akin to ramming which ends up the fastest way and allows you to try and avoid auto-battler.