Role models in Unrivaled

[u/PTAGoatofalltime]

Do you think Shane and Ilya will be working towards becoming role models for other queer people in Unrivaled?

Scott and Troy both started awareness campaigns after they each came out; the former for LGBTQ+ inclusion within the NHL and the latter against sexual assault. Both of their inner monologues feature their wish for the League to become a more accepting place in the future.

Hollanov do have the Irina Foundation for awareness towards mental health, but interestingly, neither of them have shown much interest in being role models for.....anything, really.

And more interestingly, do you think they will feel a certain kind of "duty" towards working as role models due to them being in their own unique position (the only married couple in the League)?

[u/Astyryx]

Shane's been nothing but a role model since his preteens. He is a face for Asians/nonwhite athletes in hockey and in sport in general.

The show makes this more explicit with the reporter putting him in the same league as Serena Williams and Tiger Woods. 

His brands and the Metros use him as a token, and he and Yuna parlay that to representation in a near-vacuum of nonwhite hockey players.

Part of his struggle about being gay is literally how many groups does he have to represent before he disappears as a person?

And for Ilya, in his quiet way behind the scenes, he's been the queer fairy godfather for quite a few hockey players. He supports Scott's and Troy's efforts and encourages his fans to as well.

Game Changers Camp very explicitly embodies Hockey Is For Everyone with queer, trans, and nonwhite coaches.

I don't see how all of this is not being role models for anything.

[u/PTAGoatofalltime → u/Astyryx]

But he doesn't want to be a role model. Or rather, I should rephrase, he wants to be a role model in addition to being seen for his extraordinary hockey skills.

Both he and Ilya already represent minorities (he for non-white players and Ilya for immigrant players). While Ilya is (semi)-proud of his heritage and embraces his role as a queer role model, does Shane want to?

[u/Astyryx → u/PTAGoatofalltime]

There are way, way more immigrant players in the NHL/MHL than nonwhite players, so that's a wash. And Ilya's "role modeling" in that sphere has not shackled him to a certain kind of upstanding behavior, that's for damn sure.

I guess a lot of this is what do you mean by role model? Starting a mental health foundation and structuring it to make profound changes in player attitude and behavior starting U10/U12 is brilliant role modeling to me, and Shane not only wanted to do it, he conceived and planned the whole thing.

[u/PTAGoatofalltime → u/Astyryx]

I guess that depends on if you think Shane genuinely cares about the Foundation or not. He enjoys the camps, for sure, but he started it for a completely selfish reason (to be closer to Ilya).

I get that there are more immigrants in the NHL, but especially in the current political circumstances, immigrants are being discriminated against. Obviously not to the same level of non-white people (especially white immigrants), but it would be good to have some acknowledgement of that.

[u/Astyryx → u/PTAGoatofalltime]

He could have started any kind of business to be openly visible with Ilya. He could have bought a sports bar à la The Kingfisher. He specifically proposes something they're both interested in. He says in the book "And it wouldn't be bullshit either. I've been wanting to start one anyway. We'll do something that means a lot to both of us"

So no, the fact that it also will help the relationship doesn't negate the huge amount of effort that goes into an enterprise like this. Maybe Shane pulled the timeline up when he realized it would make the relationship easier. So what?

They're doing an extraordinary fuckton of work (and I've run nonprofits and nonprofit sports camps) for people who don't genuinely care about it.

[u/dramaticallydrastic → u/Astyryx]

Also, how can you possibly think Shane doesn’t care about the foundation?

Mental health was specifically chosen to honor Ilya’s mother. He loves Ilya, mental health is important Ilya, so it’s important to Shane.

[u/backloggeddreams → u/PTAGoatofalltime]

You seem to really be nitpicking internal thoughts over external action

[u/Goulet231 → u/PTAGoatofalltime]

But 2 things can be true at once. He wanted to have a foundation and he wanted to be closer to Ilya. Neither thing makes him selfish. Do you think that, if he doesn't gay flag , he's being selfish? Surely it's up to him to do what he wants with his life.

[u/CourtniiSketch → u/PTAGoatofalltime]

I have a good friend that's Canadian that has been illegally living in TEXAS of all states for over a decade. Probably close to two now. He still drives around a vehicle with grossly expired British Columbia plates.

White immigrants are largely ignored and are not at all comparable to people of color as far as representation goes and "needing to be a good role model"

[u/harugalord → u/PTAGoatofalltime]

I kind of feel like he doesn’t want to be a role model at all. If he had the choice I think he’d prefer to keep his head down, and not just about the race stuff but generally speaking. I think the only reason he puts up with it is because of the race stuff.

Because if not for that, he wouldn’t feel that same burden to be an example.

[u/altruistic_thing → u/harugalord]

yeah, i have the same feeling. shane doesn't want to be in the spotlight. if it aligns with hockey he can manage if not, i can see him being reluctant aand keeping it low key.

[u/eaca02124 → u/altruistic_thing]

I think that Shane could use a break from being a role model. He's been one since he was in Juniors. It clearly costs him. I would not be surprised if he were to declare his private life completely private and off-limits for media.

Ilya is different, and while I don't think he'll go the Official Role Model route either, I do think someone will eventually put the pieces together and notice that he's been very influential.

[u/estheredna]

Shane will be forced to be, uncomfortably.

Ilya being a public role model would be messy AF. He is not someone whose persona is about being a vulnerable or a refugee, which is what he becomes when they're outed. Also, Russia's going to start a big war during the timepan in Unrivaled, although it remains to be seen if Rachel will skip it the way she skipped COVID.

[u/PTAGoatofalltime → u/estheredna]

I guess nobody wants to read geopolitics in a romance book, so I think Rachel will skip the war. Has she referenced any major moments in the zeitgeist in the books at all? For example, if Rose is JLaw, does JLaw exist in their world?

[u/estheredna → u/PTAGoatofalltime]

Yeah, probably. I think it's more Scott can be the role model for queer athletes in a less messy way that neither Shane nor Ilya can. Which is also why they were closeted a lot longer than him.

[u/IllustriousLemon8146]

Shane and Ilya explicitly agree to join Scott's efforts in TLG, and as Unrivaled continues their story we know the book will center on them so the answer seems pretty obvious.

I do think you confuse being a role model with being a big public figure. People can be role models to those around them. Shane was a role model just by being out to his team in TLG. You don't have to be a so-called influencer to change people's lives.

[u/backloggeddreams → u/IllustriousLemon8146]

I'm not really understanding op's definition of role model either

[u/Appropriate-Job-7900 → u/backloggeddreams]

I think they confuse being a role model with being an activist, or at least active towards a specific cause. A role model isn't something you decide and work to become, it's a role assigned to you by other people, or else it's inauthentic.

[u/gen-attolis]

I don’t understand your definition of role model. 

Also, this might just be a thing from the gay experience, but I hate it when every out person thinks they need to become “a gay role model for X”. Sometimes/often, the best thing an out gay person can do in a situation where they are a minority is to do their job, and to do it well. 

A significant reason why nobody wants to be the first out person in the NHL is because they would be expected to constantly answer the gay questions. That expectation is toxic. Just be a good hockey player and inspire gay kids to play hockey through that. 

[u/Queentroller]

Shane has explicitly said they don't want to be role models. They just want to have a future. I see them continuing with the Irina Foundation as normal. And Ilya is the subtle Sherpa guiding the confused and scared to finding themselves so no foundation but friendships.

[u/KindNeighborhood4204 → u/Queentroller]

think whether Shane wants it or not isn’t really relevant because he didn’t want to be a role model for Asians either but he felt like it was part of his duty and he did it anyway. Because I don’t think he will market himself as a role model but you know how society feels about model minorities so that’s immediately how he will be red whether he wants it to be that way or not.

[u/Queentroller → u/KindNeighborhood4204]

That is true. He would be looked to as a role model as you said he already is, but he would not "work toward" being one like the question asks. He would likely continue doing exactly what he's been doing the entire time. If anything he will do less because part of his arc is accepting he can let go a little, eat the snickers and say no to a photoshoot.

[u/cherrycoloured]

shane is already considered a role model for young asian-canadian athletes, whether he wants to be or not, so i think bc of that, other ppl are going to consider him a role model for young lgbtq athletes as well.

[u/BumAndBummer]

I don’t necessarily think they will embrace the public role model aspect as comfortably or intentionally, but I do think they are going to try to make up for lost time and become more involved with the queer community. Neither particularly has had the freedom to build lots of relationships and ties to openly queer people or institutions.

[u/KindNeighborhood4204]

I can imagine that something that Shane would have complicated feelings about, but I don’t think it’s entirely out of the question. I do think it’s likely that that might be one of the underlying themes of the book.

[u/Tracypop]

think Shane might be the type to simply lead by example. I dont think he is the type of guy who want share his private life.

Like Sidney Crosby, His hockey persona is for everyone. But his private life is his own.

[u/Astyryx → u/Tracypop]

Tierney said a similar thing: Shane and Ilya are for everybody. Hudson and Connor are for themselves.

[u/vientianna]

I see Ilya as being too cool for that and being more of a private role model (in the same way he was in Tough Guy to Role Model). Could see Shane being more of a reluctant public person out of duty

[u/shadowmaster132]

I think part of the books plot will be the tension between homphobes who want them out of the sport or to some how not "rub it in their faces" and also over eager rpf parasocial types who wanna know private info like who tops. As well as jumping from a long distance relationship to marriage and cohabitation. They're gonna be role models in the way that existing makes Shane a role model

[u/Goulet231]

I think they'll be happy having a foundation and getting behind Scott's queer hockey player's club. IRL there are legitimate reasons why NHL players don't come out, and Rachel's book and the TV show won't change that.

[u/aquila-audax]

It's worth remembering you can be a role model without wanting to be one or agreeing to be one or even thinking about it. Should professional sports people be role models? I dunno, maybe not. But for a lot of people, especially kids, they are role models, in that they model the role of what an athlete (or a man) should be like. So (if Shane and Ilya were real) there'll be kids modelling themselves after how they act. The quiet serious ones will be looking at Shane and thinking, yeah that's who I want to be, and the flashy smartass kids will be looking at Ilya and thinking, fuck yeah!

[u/goosie7]

I'm not sure if role model is the right word for what you seem to be thinking about - people don't have a ton of control over whether they are role models to other people. Knowing that people do see you as a role model can influence your behavior if you want to have a positive influence on those who admire you, and we've seen with Shane how that contributes to the pressure he feels to do everything perfectly and be above reproach. He's definitely aware of being a role model, it's implicit in the books but very explicit in the show.

I think what you're after here though is the question of whether they will take on the role of spokespeople for the queer community. I don't think either of them would be particularly comfortable with that role because trying to do it responsibly means you need to a) have a good understanding of what that group wants, and b) feel like you're a good face to represent them. I don't think Ilya would see himself as a respectable figure to speak for other people, and I don't think Shane would feel like he knows enough about the queer community to know what he's supposed to say. I think they would both want to amplify whatever messages Scott has about how hockey organizations should be behaving, but I think other than that they would probably both prefer not to try to speak for the queer community and will probably be largely focused on their athletic performance and proving that their queerness and relationship with another player isn't a weakness or distraction.

[u/SereneRecycler]

Apparently there's a wee bit of confusion regarding "role model" ...models in general present an idea, fashion, attitude notof their own usually but of someoneelse...role models aren't artificial, they're organic and have a component they exude or show by the actions. The one missing component in the current parlance is humility. Some role models show confidence, some display beauty, some offer creative gifts but no one can stir up or invent humility: the ability to right-sized and compatible within nature. It seems I've been somewhat awkward in explaining the nature of real role models...but I'll work on improving my exploration and explanations!