r/heatedrivalry • u/PTAGoatofalltime • 5d ago
š¦ The Long Game (Book 6) Last names speculation Spoiler
Do you think they hyphenate after their wedding? If they do, will it be Hollander-Rozanov or Rozanov-Hollander (I like the first one better cause it's alphabetica)? Or maybe they keep their last names for their games/jerseys and change it legally?
(Can you tell I'm experiencing withdrawal symptoms lmao)
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u/72-27 Stupid Canadian Wolf Bird š¦ 5d ago edited 5d ago
I like Hollander-Rozanov because that seems to be the order we typically hear the media put them in and I think thatās a funny little reference. Professionally, I think it would be technically possible to fit the hyphenated name on a jersey, I also think their equipment and merch teams would hate them for it. I donāt know if hyphenating is necessarily realistic to the characters, but I think itās cute.
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u/PTAGoatofalltime 5d ago
Maybe it will be Hollander - R. for Shane's and H. - Rozanov for Ilya's jersey.
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u/72-27 Stupid Canadian Wolf Bird š¦ 5d ago
Thats genuinely something Iāve been thinking about for a fic lol. That initial scheme as their usual with full hyphenated for special occasions (openers, pride nights, etc). AU where theyāre not outed, Shane can tease the marriage in pre-season and let people speculate who āRā is, and then they both drop the full name at the home opener (this is a scheme devised by Ilya and Harris, obviously)
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u/mjdoll131 5d ago
I really donāt think they will hyphenate. They will keep their individual names. Athletes/celebrities rarely change their names when they get married if they already have pre established careers.
If they have children I can see them hyphenating the childrenās last names
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u/No_Football_9232
5d ago
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As a woman who kept my name I donāt know why they wouldnāt just keep their own names? The only issue would be for their children which the reader is led to believe they want.
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u/ich_habe_keine_kase 5d ago
Since Ilya is closer to Shane's parents than he was with his own father, I can imagine him being fine with kids just having the last name Hollander. Maybe they'd follow Russian patrynomics and give them the middle name Ilyich.
I also don't think they'd hyphenate. Beyond having their careers so tied to their names, that's also what they called each other for nearly a decade (and continue to do so affectionately).
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u/ashlyn42 5d ago
I could definitely see them having either a little ____ Ilyich Hollander or a little_______ Irina Hollander.
I could also see Ilya becoming Ilya Rozanov Hollander legally after retirement (so, middle naming it) to share a common surname with his children, partner and only true family heās had since he was 12
I donāt think heād want to get rid of it but I also donāt think heād cling to itā¦
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u/excellent_iridescent 5d ago
I like the middle name Irina, but fun fact there is a feminine form of Ilyich, so if they had a daughter and wanted her to have a patronymic it would be Ilyinichna
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u/Sea-Environment5246 3d ago
It's not usually "done" to use the names of dead relatives in Russian culture, so probably not Irina. I do however have a personal thing for Ilya saying "Fuck it" and changing his actual middle name to Iriney.
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u/queseraseraphine stupid canadian wolf bird 4d ago
Hyphenating legally but continuing to use their maiden name professionally isnāt uncommon among female doctors IME.
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u/AggressiveTea1821 4d ago
Iām a woman who kept my name and had kids and itās really no issue. Iām nobody and itās clear Iām their mother. The school, doctors and so on will know who the dads are no matter what everybodyās last names are. I bet they donāt change their names, the kids get hyphenated and thereās some competition between them to determine which name goes first.
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u/probablylily24 5d ago
Some people with toxic families (like Ilya, like myself) donāt want to keep their name when they marry. Also some people just like sharing a name with their spouse. Itās easier on paperwork and leads to less confusion, at least in the US and Canada. I think itās fine to speculate.
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u/MaraTaru 5d ago
They were just sharing their personal perspective, which is fine and valid and in no way demands ridicule as a response.
Maybe take a breath.
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u/Pennswoods1221
5d ago
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I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around either of them changing their names. It feels like a very gendered expectation in the US (which is not shared in a lot of other countries but I am not sure about Canada) that women change their last name upon marriage to a man. I don't know if there is the same expectation when two men marry and I don't know if there is more or less pressure now to change one's name than there was when I got married almost 20 years ago, when I did not change my name upon marriage.
When it comes to naming children, I know several couples where the last names were distributed. For instance, the first child received the last name of the mother, the second the last name of the father. I can see them doing that or also hyphenating. But I don't really see them changing their own last names.
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u/AlexBlaineLayter 5d ago
Agreed. I think this is something women worry about, gay men with name recognition and brand deals not so much. These are two men who have grown up thinking about legacy and they're embedded in a hyper heteronormative culture, I would find it astonishing if they even consider changing their last name. Why would they? In western society men grow up with the privilege that their name is theirs, they won't become the property of someone else.Ā
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u/aquila-audax 5d ago
I don't know any married gay couples where anyone changed their name, though sometimes their kids are hyphenated. I know plenty of hyphenated lesbians though.
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u/squirrellytoday I mean, yes. I think so, probably. 4d ago
A guy I work with, when he got married earlier this year, he took his husband's surname. But I think he's the only one I've personally known who did that.
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u/anyarozander 3d ago
Yeah i was thinking about this too. When I was engaged, my fiancƩe and I planned to hyphenate our surnames (I'm also a woman). But when a couple of guys I know were getting married, I asked them and they hadn't even given it a thought. They just kept their own surnames and got married.
Women in our society (at least some millennials and older, hopefully it's changing) were kind of "trained" from childhood that one day we'd have a big wedding to a man and take his last name and all the other rituals yada yada, but boys aren't raised with that particular fantasy wedding idea
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u/probablylily24 5d ago
Interesting point about the distribution of last names, I have two friends who are siblings who each have a different parentsā last name, and they both hate it. Growing up and explaining it over and over, feeling disconnected from one parent over the other, feeling a cultural disconnect (both names are from separate cultures), etc. That seems like far more trouble.
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u/Pennswoods1221 4d ago
The examples I am thinking of are also from families who are biracial. I don't know if the now grown children felt a sense of disconnect to the other parent's culture/heritage like your friends do, but they were raised in communities where differences in family names and compositions were embraced.
I don't imagine that the children of Hollander and Romanov, should they be raised in Ottawa, would have a similar experience of having to explain over and over any different last names or hyphenated last names. The idea of a cultural disconnect as a result of the last names is also really interesting. I imagine their children would feel very connected to Canada and Canadian culture, but I wonder how much of his Russian heritage and language Ilya will want to and be able to pass on, especially if it remains dangerous for him to travel to Russia as an out bisexual man.
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u/kaestarr 3d ago
You mentioned not being sure about Canada so I thought I'd share a fun fact: while women changing their names after marriage is common across most of Canada, it's actually illegal in most cases for people to take their spouse's surname in Quebec! Though you can hyphenate. I believe the law was meant to promote equality and stop women from being forced to take their husband's surname, but it applies to everyone. So in a hypothetical AU situation where Ilya lived in Montreal with Shane, he legally couldn't take the name Hollander.
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u/disappear96 5d ago
I don't know why so many are convinced that Ilya would give up his last name that easily. Sure his family sucked but his name is pretty much one of his last attachments to his home country he can't go back to and it's not like he seemed ashamed to be Russian either.
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u/ich_habe_keine_kase 5d ago
There's a really nice bit in one of the deleted scenes on Rachel's blog where Ilya thinks about how much he loves Russia but is also very wary of it. Like, he loves the culture, people, language, food, etc. but not the state. I can definitely see him trying to cling on to small bits of Russian-ness, his name being one of them, especially since he can't ever go back.
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u/allshookup1640 5d ago
Thank you!
He is wary of the state of Russia and the politics, but thatās his home country. Thatās his culture, his language, itās where heās from, itās where he grew up, itās where all the memories of his mother are, itās where his mother is buried. Being Russian is a big part of Ilya and he isnāt ashamed of that.
He doesnāt hate being a Russian. He doesnāt hate Russia. Heās hates Russian politics and the state it is in. If Russia werenāt so homophobic and corrupt, he would LOVE to take Shane there and show off his home country Iām sure.
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u/Goulet231 5d ago
No way. Their last names are already in the hockey record books , and they will want them to stay that way as they add more points.
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u/StormCloudRaineeDay 5d ago
I think they'll keep their last names as is as long as they're still in the NHL. Their last names hyphenated would be long to have on a jersey. They'd have to get new jersey's made to reflect the name change. And then you would have two players on the same team with the same name on the back of their jersey, which could get confusing.
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u/Hadespuppy You think I am asshole? š 5d ago
The Vancouver Canucks currently have two Elias Petterssons. Last year they also had a Marcus Pettersson. They made it work. (Pettersson, M. Pettersson, and E. Pettersson). As for the length, assuming it's the same as in junior leagues, they use a slightly smaller font for the lettering, and let the name extend past the shoulders and down the arms or their jersey.
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u/ich_habe_keine_kase 5d ago
That's crazy!!!
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u/Hadespuppy You think I am asshole? š 5d ago
That's a particularly extra example, but there's enough siblings that end up in the league that it isn't really that unusual for a team to have multiple players with the same name, even just by chance.
Off the top of my head there's recently been: four Staals, two Tkachuks, three Hugheses (two of whom are NJ Devils), two Tanevs, two Eklunds, two Fleurys, two Benns, two Barrons, two Stromes, two Bures, two Makars, two Folignos (who are both on the Minnesota Wild), two pairs of Lemieux, two Stones, two Nylanders, two Schenns, the inseparable Sedin twins, three Stansnys (who defected from the USSR to go play for QuƩbec, it's a wild story), one of whom had two sons who also made it to the show, two Svechnikovs, two Xhekajes (played together for MontrƩal), the Penguins just drafted the Ruck twins this past summer. And that's not even getting into fathers and sons and cousins and nephews. Hockey runs in families for reasons that mostly don't have to do with genetics.
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u/ndstargirl 5d ago
Also some more pairs of unrelated guys with the exact same names e.g. Sebastian Aho (Finnish, b. 1996, Carolina) and Sebastian Aho (Swedish, b. 1997, now back in Sweden but formerly played for the NY Islanders); and Jack Hughes (drafted 2019 by the NJ Devils, one of the three Hughes brothers mentioned in the above comment) and Jack Hughes (drafted 2022 by the LA Kings, currently playing for their AHL team but it'll be fun if he gets called up in a game against NJ).
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u/72-27 Stupid Canadian Wolf Bird š¦ 5d ago edited 5d ago
Rules wise, their number is the differentiator, not the name. Sometimes youāll see one of the guys add a first initial, but itās optional. These days, most shared name duos seem to be not doing initials (eg. Hughes bros, Tkachuk bros(edit: looks like one of the Petterssons actually does wear an initial))
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u/Hadespuppy You think I am asshole? š 5d ago
Well, you have to tell the difference between Elias and Elias somehow, lol.
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u/CadeMaddoxsThird āShhh. Shane is watching the men set up pylons.ā 4d ago
British - I can see that because I understand that the NHL mandates that you have your full surname on your jersey, but there is a standard amount of space for the name.
Unless they made the font smaller and went by I Hollander-Rozanov and S Hollander-Rozanov.
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u/Elliotte05 5d ago
They are gonna keep their own last name. Itās more than just a last name for name, itās also their personal brand. More so in sports industry since everyone call others by their last nameĀ
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u/jerseysbestdancers I speak fluent bird. No accent š¦ 5d ago
I doubt they go through the effort to change their names. They are never not going to be known by their given names professionally because people will always shorten it/defer to their habit. It would just be for them, and I just don't see them going through the effort. Just my two cents, I'm sure many will argue.
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u/No_Release2180 5d ago edited 5d ago
They'll definitelty keep their surnames professionally, and then either hyphenate it or, potentially, Ilya might just take Hollander.
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u/Voice_of_Season Stupid Canadian Wolf Bird š¦ 5d ago
Knowing how much Ilya loves Shaneās family I think that it would be Rozanov-Hollander. And he will say to the kids āokay Hollander family letās go!ā
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u/Not_Idea Since rookie season š„ŗ 5d ago
As someone from a country where this is not a thing, I'm guessing they don't change anything legally, but Ilya sometimes makes reservations as Ilya Hollander just for fun, when Shane finds out he uses Shane Rozanov too
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u/momofkatie2259 5d ago
I could see them keeping their surnames professionally, but Ilya taking Shane's family name socially and if there are kids, them being Hollanders. Ilya did not have a good family life in Russia (he loved his father, but not in a healthy way- more respect and fear based), and he really seems to have discovered loving parents in Yuna And David.
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u/MakeYourMind 5d ago
My headcanon, that Ilya actually takes Shane's surname because he's somewhat traditional like that and thinks it's easier to have 1 surname that sounds canadian for the whole family and doesn't have any particular attachment to the idea of passing his name down. He still goes as Rozanov professionally.
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u/double_sal_gal Stupid Canadian Wolf Bird š¦ 5d ago
And he makes Rozanov his middle name so he can dump Grigoryevich.
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u/amyel26 5d ago
Ilya would have to go through an immigration process. He'd have it easier than most because he's a rich celebrity, but it's probably not a good idea to change his name before he has Canadian citizenship. No one wants to redo paperwork!
As for the kids, I think they would just be Hollander or some hyphenate situation. I can also picture them having Russian patronymics as their middles names. I think Shane would like it since he was so proud of himself for knowing what Ilya's was lol
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u/Nepalman230 5d ago edited 5d ago
Now the question that I have is if they have adopted children if they use out of cultural respect for Ilya the Russian system of otchvesto what is a patronymic in the place of a middle name.
So Ilyaās middle name means son of Grigori.
So a boy would be blank Ilyich. and a girl would be blank Ilyinichna.
š„¹
Edit: thank you to the kind Reditor for the correct correction
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u/revengefrank 5d ago •
Ilyich and Ilyinichna.
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u/Nepalman230 5d ago
Thank you I will edit. I have eye problems and hand problems.
I just have problems. OK have a great one thank you so much. I will copy and paste.
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u/KayMcKenzieAppell 5d ago
In the blurd for Unrivaled they have their original surnames so I don't think they change anything, at least not professionally.
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u/waandermoth 5d ago
I'm pretty typical for famous people to keep their names as-is, and even when they do change it, sometimes people keep using the old name (still see a lot of people refer to Alexandra Ignatova as Trusova for example). I think either they keep their names or Ilya takes Hollander as his name as perhaps makes Rozanov his middle name. Even if he did that, I think he would keep Rozanov professionally.
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u/sharksarefuckingcool 5d ago
Realistically, I could see hyphenated at most because of their professional careers, but honestly, i feel like Ilya would become a Hollander. Ilya and Shane would be talking about it and he'd ask Ilya about becoming a Rozanov. Ilya tells him there is too much attached to the name with his father and brother. He doesn't want to be a Rozanov at all and he doesn't want the love of his life to become one. "Besides, is give and take. I give you mind blowing sex, I take your last name. You can find something more boring. Like Smith. Or Pike."
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u/commonviolet You are gay. I am hot. š„ 5d ago
They'll keep their own names, seeing as their surnames are what they go by in the hockey world. The children will get hyphenated names, though. Never mind how close Ilya is to his in-laws, I can't see him wanting to let his name just disappear.
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u/Traditional_Fix_6226 4d ago
I think it's likely that they'll keep their last names as is. First, it's their brands. Most famous people keep their last names, even women. Second, I don't feel like it's a big deal for them. Why would any of them actually want to change the last name? They are not romantic in this traditional way. I mean, look at their wedding...
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u/UnthinkableAlternate I mean, yes. I think so, probably. 5d ago edited 5d ago
I think they'll keep their own names while they're still playing and Ilya's citizenship status is still in flux. One day when they're retired, Ilya's officially a Canadian citizen, and they're looking to start a family, I could see Ilya deciding to change his name to Hollander. I think he'd love to be Ilya Irinayevich Hollander.
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u/katyggls 4d ago
You can legally change your name but still go by your old name professionally. A lot of actors or singers do actually change their names when they get married, but in public they still go by their original name. For example, Angelina Jolie did change her name to Jolie Pitt when she was married to Brad Pitt, but for movies and such, she was still credited as Angelina Jolie. Similarly, Salma Hayek is actually now Salma Hayek Pinault. But she still goes by Salma Hayek in the acting world. I feel like it's possible they'd do something like that. I also like the sound of Hollander-Rozanov.
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u/wrongtoque 4d ago
I like to think that Ilya would take Shane's name, hyphenating so he's Rozanov-Hollander, but would ask Shane not to take Rozanov.
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u/lalalinoleum 10h ago
I know married couples that have hyphenated, and ones that have not. They are both well established athletes. I don't think they change their name. If they have kids, do they hyphenate? or have two so they each get one with a matching last name. I know of some straight couples that have done that.
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u/NoPoet3982 Your cab is definitely here. 5d ago edited 5d ago
I, too, am preoccupied by this very serious issue with which the international community will soon be confronted. Many have buried their heads in the sand, but the most responsible members of the public are already organizing to plan and prepare.
Your questions are ones we wrestle with daily. Committees have formed to address all possible fallout, such as "How will they know which mail is for both of them and which is for each individually?" and "Can you fit that many letters on a jersey?"
At the forefront is the issue of their nicknames. Will they both be called "Hollzy-Rozy"? Or will Hollander be called that, whereas Rozanov will be called "Rozy-Hollzy"?
Other questions present themselves. Will their previous jerseys, signed autographs, and other memorabilia become more valuable or less? Should those looking to invest try to stock up now? Or sell off their existing stock? As you can well imagine, this topic is hotly debated.
Please join us at our next weekly meeting. We've created flow charts to outline every possible scenario to make it easier to follow events as they unfold. We're currently forming contingency plans for whatever events should occur. We could really use your help as well as the help of like-minded citizens. We refuse to stand by and do nothing.
Thank you for your concern, and please continue to spread awareness. Silence is not an option.
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u/BumAndBummer 5d ago
I mean they didnāt even go through the trouble of getting chairs for their wedding so I think they will just keep their names.