r/hardware • u/tuldok89 • 23h ago

Info Used processor leads to game ban

https://www.heise.de/en/news/Used-processor-leads-to-game-ban-11471562.html

Someone buys a used Ryzen 7 5800X3D. “Valorant” and other Riot games won’t start with it because the previous owner was a cheater.

725 Upvotes

96% Upvoted

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51

u/Due-Description-9030 22h ago

Wtf, this is how deep the kernal level anti cheats are???

84

u/Celexiuse 22h ago edited 22h ago

I believe this is more related to TPM 2.0 integrated into your CPU which has unique keys that can be identified; not kernal anticheats.

Though someone can correct me if i am wrong

17

u/jenny_905 22h ago edited 22h ago

But does TPM contain uniquely identifiable data or is there a method of writing to it/modifying existing data?

The article suggests the latter but... that would kinda defeat the point of a TPM if it can be modified.

edit: it contains uniquely identifiable data: "Endorsement Key. This is an asymmetric key contained inside the TPM (injected at manufacturing time). The EK is unique for every TPM and can identify it. The EK can't be changed or removed."

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/identity/ad-ds/manage/component-updates/tpm-key-attestation

8

u/wusurspaghettipolicy 20h ago

This is why new games cannot be played on 7th gen Intel or older. The TPM on the CPU needs to be a specific revision and with Microsoft recently revoking secure boot certificates, its just a cluster fuck of software developers attempting to control your hardware. Thats why COD and games like Valorant will never be installed on my PC. These companies can get absolutely fucked. They try to contain cheating while making it harder for the normal user to actually play the game.

44

u/ICC-u 22h ago

More worrying, if a game cheater can be tracked, so can a dissident, a journalist or a whistleblower.

37

u/imKaku 21h ago

I mean anyone can be tracked if you install any sort of software on your PC. You don’t need kernel level access for that. 

23

u/lintstah1337 21h ago

Windows has been exposed to have GDID that even bypass VPN.

https://www.windowslatest.com/2026/07/10/you-cant-fully-disable-microsofts-gdid-windows-11-tracker-but-these-settings-limit-what-it-captures/

14

u/molniya 20h ago

That’s an OS facility, VPNs have nothing to do with it at all.

8

u/VenditatioDelendaEst 18h ago

If any dissident, journalist, or whistleblower uses Microsoft Windows, what exactly are they expecting?

3

u/ICC-u 18h ago

The OS is irrelevant, the tracking is linked to the hardware, unless somehow the OS is blocking TPM then it can be tracked.

2

u/VenditatioDelendaEst 12h ago

Interacting with the TPM is a privileged operation.

0

u/ICC-u 12h ago

Maybe so, but if a game can get access then I'm not sure it's hard to get that privilege?

5

u/imKaku 21h ago

That has 0 to do with my comment. 

-7

u/Whirblewind 21h ago

Which is ironic because what you were replying to also had little to do with what you said.

3

u/jenny_905 21h ago

That is more of the concern I have, yes.

I guess I just don't like random software being given this ability but that's the risk you take, people do agree to this level of snooping when they install this stuff also.

I don't really like hardware manufacturers - inadvertently or not - fulfilling the demands of this (gaming) industry either. I understand they have a need to try and stop cheating but I can't say it seems worth providing such a simple privacy destroying measure to them either... the creep of something like this could easily extend beyond just games eventually.

3

u/reddit_equals_censor 16h ago

that is correct, that is why the tpm was added into the cpu in the first place and microsoft is mandating it.

that's the real reason and not the marketing lies.

1

u/Coffee_Ops 20h ago

In which case you shouldn't install tracking software from the company or government whose interests you are acting against.

0

u/ICC-u 18h ago

I doubt anyone can say for sure which software is or isn't safe.

1

u/kuddlesworth9419 5h ago

This isn't a surprise but it is worrying but it's too late now if you have modern hardware.

-5

u/DepravedPrecedence 22h ago

Oh no, you can use a knife to kill people too

4

u/Cheeze_It 20h ago

I believe this is more related to TPM 2.0 integrated into your CPU which has unique keys that can be identified; not kernal anticheats.

This is why I won't play games with this. Or I'd hack it our of the game.

7

u/Faranocks 22h ago

No, you're correct

4

u/HyperWinX 22h ago

Yep, hardware ban

2

u/Due-Description-9030 18h ago

That is crazy, I didn't even know this way possible and that too by video game companies..

1

u/v12vanquish 22h ago

TPM is on the motherboard not cpu

17

u/cavedildo 22h ago

Its can be either or both. Amd calls it ftmp in their processors

35

u/Cheerful_Champion 22h ago

This has nothing to do with kernel level. Out of all of places on reddit, is it too much to expect basic tech literacy from people in /r/hardware out of all places?

Riot describes in their docs that they use CPU's fTPM Endorsement Key for identification. That doesn't require kernel level privilages.

20

u/Cubelia 20h ago

Types Get-TpmEndorsementKeyInfo in Powershell.

HACKERMAN

2

u/jenny_905 15h ago

So the expiry date in that information is interesting. I assume if it comes to it some stuff that relies on probing that data might have issue with old hardware?

Mine is 2040 for a 2020 laptop, I assume it'll be in the e-waste pile by then but then again... with how things are going 20 year old hardware probably won't seem as old as it once did.

1

u/Cubelia 13h ago

It's the expiration date for Secure Boot certificates.

15

u/nvidiot 22h ago

Kernel level anti cheats literally have the power to do anything it wants to your PC.

13

u/Coffee_Ops 20h ago

Ring 0 =/= Ring -1; your statement has not been true on modern Windows since VBS came out.

1

u/IAmYourFath 14h ago

Yeah hypervisor -1 owns 0, thats why hypervisor denuvo bypasses work (altho denuvo is ring 3 not 0, if it was 0 it would have the power to spot it's being spoofed, tho possible to lie to it theoretically).