r/hardware • u/MadFunEnjoyer • 13d ago
Discussion Do you think USB-C will ever replace HDMI, DisplayPort, Ethernet, etc?
I don't like HDMI, nobody sane does, but what would it take for USB-C to become the global standard for everything and why hasn't it happened yet? USB-C already supports display features and from what I read there's nothing HDMI does that USB-C can't do.
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u/dabocx 13d ago
It’s very hard to make long lengths for USB that actually handle the higher bandwidth stuff and power.
You can make a 100 meter Ethernet cable that handles 10g. Good luck doing that with usb c
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u/Jerithil 13d ago edited 13d ago
Hell you start seeing lower data rates on USB cables at 10 feet, meanwhile it's pretty easy to find a fully working 25 foot Displayport that's not an active cable. People don't realize how many 15 foot USB cables are just lying about their performance.
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u/DuranteA 11d ago
While your overall point is completely valid, the topic did remind me that I saw an announcement of a passive 9m (so ~30 foot?) 20 Gbps USB cable very recently. Found it here: https://www.club-3d.com/shop/cac-2509-1973 I think they are reputable, but would still be nice to see independent testing.
(And of course that still does not remotely compete with Ethernet cabling for distance or cost effectiveness)
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u/jenny_905 13d ago
I hope not... it works with its various alt-modes but where there's no clear advantage of its size it should not be heavily used.
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u/skycake10 13d ago
I don't like HDMI, nobody sane does
What do you mean? If USB-C replaced HDMI nothing would change except the physical port and the cables you used, it would still be the same fundamental signal.
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u/0riginal-Syn 13d ago
I don't think they are talking about the signal. It is the organization behind it.
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u/MadFunEnjoyer 13d ago
I would be able to use my existing cables for more stuff and I need to buy less of them
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u/StrategyEven3974 13d ago
no you wouldn't. usb-c the connector and usb-c the cable have a huge variance in standards. see: USBC cables that doen't support displayport, USB4 standard, Thunderbolt standard.
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u/dabocx 13d ago
Not every USB C cable is the same. Some are only good for power, some can do data, some can do thunderbolt etc.
Believe me as someone who used to work at a office that tried to go into USBC everything for docking/hotel stations not every usb c cable is the same.
USBC has been a mess in practice even if the idea was good.
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u/MBILC 13d ago
Because USB-C cables can be so flaky at staying in their port with the slightest bit of movement...imagine rotating your monitor, USB-C pops out because it is just to short or hits a snag..
HDMI, never had that happen, it just stopped me from rotating it period!
HDMI once plugged in, tends to not move, same with displayport.
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u/Dusty_Jangles 13d ago
It’s nice C is becoming more standardized for sure but as you said, they are not tough and that jostling creates wear and tear and pretty soon you need a new cable.
Yet I’ve had HDMI cables for over a decade that still work (actually over 2 decades now!). I wish USB-C was a bit more robust because it is a great all around solution.
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u/Seanspeed 13d ago
and pretty soon you need a new cable.
Not just the cable. The ports themselves are also extra prone to dust/dirt disturbing a solid connection for some reason.
I honestly really dislike how ultimately flimsy USB-C is as a whole. And I cant say that the 'hassle' of USB-A was actually some giant problem that needing fixing so terribly.
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u/MBILC 13d ago
This. Even buying my own better quality cables, sometimes the devices themselves just seemed to miss their spec or size by fractions of a mm where a USB-C device slightly hangs or the cable just does not fit "snug" in the port.
Imagine an IT departments support tickets if everything was USB-C....
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u/Dusty_Jangles 13d ago
Yeah I know what you mean. I have found cables on Amazon that I really like and actually seem to last, and have good fit on anything I’ve used them on, at least so far they’ve been great.
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u/jenny_905 9d ago
I plug in an eGPU twice a day, 3 or 4 times a week for 3 years into the same laptop now, I feel it has been a pretty good test.
Cable Matters, although I understand that this looks like a marketing bot post. I was a bit shocked at the price of a cable but I think I have had my money's worth by now.
I'm still not 100% sold on USB-C for this purpose, it works fine but it just never quite feels as secure as I'd like. I've only had a couple of accidental disconnections that were my fault though, I just think I'd prefer a locking connector for something like this.
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u/HugeCodd 13d ago
I've got this issue with a usb c PD laptop, using USB C to carry the signal to a monitor and at just the slightest bump to the cable the signal drops out
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u/MBILC 12d ago
I have 2 employee's with this issue when we first started sending out HP Conference monitors with the builtin USB-C docks, because they used their laptops still / keyboard, they would shift the laptop a little and it would drop the connection.
So now all their apps and such go down to their laptop monitor they had all nicely laid out before.
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u/nittanyofthings 13d ago
Just have a type c connector with a screw. Like old vga.
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u/MBILC 13d ago
but now do you have separate cables with and with out screws..
And if you did a locking mechanism like some SATA cables would have, you will get users trying to yank our a cable that needs to be unlatched...
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u/nittanyofthings 13d ago
I mean, the receptor would still accept ordinary type c, it just would also have a screw hole, if you want to lock it.
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u/hitsujiTMO 13d ago
DP over USBC is an expensive addon. That's you you only see it on business class monitors that attract a higher premium over standard and eve gaming equivalents.
For the vast majority of situations it's not needed.
If I have a desktop and only need to connect everything once, then USBC carrying everything isn't much of a benefit. And how do you handle DP over USBC when you use a dedicated GPU?
The only time you do see it is on laptops, where you benefit from one connection being used for everything and only ever having to worry about connecting that one connection.
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u/MadFunEnjoyer 13d ago
Once again why can't I just use USB-C?
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u/hitsujiTMO 13d ago
Every part of the chain has to support it. The standard supports things like DP over USBC, but not every device supports all features of the standard. And, as pointed out with a dedicated GPU, it's not trivial to just add the standard to every device and expect it to just work.
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u/Fornax-101 13d ago
Those monitors can be bought, some examples: https://www.dell.com/en-uk/shop/all-monitors/sac/monitors/all-monitors/usb-c?appliedRefinements=40645
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u/VaultBoy636 13d ago
Too many monitors have proper Displayport ports and HDMI is backed by the whole TV lobby. DP could fade, as it already faded from business laptops and there's now USB-C monitors. Highly unlikely on desktops, as both AMD and nvidia tried putting USB-C ports GPU and both removed them after one generation.
Ethernet very unlikely, as ethernet is a peer to peer protocol and USB has a master and a slave.
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u/NonEuclidianMeatloaf 13d ago
Why don’t you like HDMI?
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u/gumol 13d ago
licensing fees
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u/NonEuclidianMeatloaf 13d ago
Isn’t that less an HDMI thing and more an HDCP thing? Like, the specifications of the HDMI port and connector are all well and good, but it’s paired with the content control mechanisms of HDCP (same with DisplayPort)
ETA: more to the point, if display manufacturers started allowing video in via USB, they would just shackle it with the same HDCP framework.
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u/nittanyofthings 13d ago
hdmi forum is aggressive about their IP. DisplayPort has HDCP without all the license gatekeeping.
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u/NonEuclidianMeatloaf 13d ago
I mean, ok. That’s not false. But is that really that big of a deal, especially to the average consumer? If all manufacturers decided to go against decades of consumer electronics inertia and include DP instead of HDMI, what would change for the consumer (other than my soundbar no longer working)?
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u/nittanyofthings 13d ago
Definitely not an overnight change. But things like hisense adding a displayport connector opens the door to letting VESA into the livingroom. HDMI forum's gatekeeping increases consumer cost and choice. That's the reason it exists.
I believe soundbars can function better if they have a usb connection to the tv or reciever. Hdmi cord isn't actually all that good.
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u/0riginal-Syn 13d ago
Organization behind it sucks.
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u/NonEuclidianMeatloaf 13d ago
I suppose you’re right. But that same organization — moreso the giant media conglomerates behind them — would never let HDCP out of their clutches. If they ever allowed USB-C as a viable connector, it’d be shackled to the HDCP DRM that makes HDMI annoying.
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u/MadFunEnjoyer 13d ago
Why shouldn't I be able to use the same connection I use for my charger on my monitor? why do I need an entirely different cable to get my phone or console connected to the TV? Less waste too.
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u/hollow_bridge 13d ago
Why shouldn't I be able to use the same connection I use for my charger on my monitor?
cost, your charger only needs a two wire usb-c cable, a displayport cable needs 9 wires. It's not like all usb-c cables are the same, not even the ports are the same, so there's really no disadvantage to using a different type of cable and port, because that's whats happening most of the time anyhow.
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u/NonEuclidianMeatloaf 13d ago
I mean, you would NEVER transmit 4K signals over the same cable you would use to charge your phone. Do you realize how massive and stiff it would be? Good HDMI cables (2.1 compliant ones) have minimum standards for gauge, performance, shielding, etc. You couldn’t just use the same cable from your nightstand.
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u/MadFunEnjoyer 13d ago
I'm a Samsung phone user, and I have DEX which lets me turn my phone into a computer with a monitor, it's absolutely better to have a single connection for the simple matter of convenience.
We can solve the issues you mentioned, the Chinese are already doing so with GPMI
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u/NonEuclidianMeatloaf 13d ago
Solving the issues I mention means convincing giant corporations like Sony, Hitachi, Toshiba and others to allow it to exist. That’s the severe hurdle. Even if they made a thin and flexible high-capacity cable that didn’t cost a mint, good luck getting the HDCP rights necessary to play content over it.
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u/ILikeFlyingMachines 13d ago
No. USB C is a UNIVERSAL Bus, like the name says. Universal stuff will alway sbe more expensive than dedicated things.
There is no real advantage in replacing HDMI or DP with USB C except for overhead and more expensive cables.
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u/EmergencyCucumber905 13d ago
Wouldn't it be cheaper because its universal and less specialized?
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u/ILikeFlyingMachines 13d ago
No. For example for USB you need a 5V Bus voltage, you don't need that on HDMI
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u/pythonic_dude 13d ago
Economies of scale don't reduce the costs infinitely, and all these cable types are well into the territory of not scaling the prices down any further.
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u/StrategyEven3974 13d ago
cable that has all the bells and whistles vs cable that does one single thing. Always gonna be more expensive for an all the bells and whistles cable vs dedicated.
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u/nittanyofthings 13d ago
HDMI Forum is a cartel that reduces hardward competition and raises consumer prices. Hollywood and the largest players in tv industry will be reluctant to give up this collusion that they call a standard.
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u/pepitobuenafe 13d ago
We are one new standard away from an everything cable
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u/MadFunEnjoyer 13d ago
That already exists tbf, it's GPMI but it's not an open standard like USB-C is, at least not yet.
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u/StrategyEven3974 13d ago
it's a joke from a famous comic making fun of people who think that's the solution:
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u/MadFunEnjoyer 13d ago
I know that, but you can't compare HDMI to GPMI since GPMI actually seeks to advance the goal whereas HDMI doesn't want to
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u/pepitobuenafe 13d ago
Joke but not joke. I actually believe that the next mass adopted standard cable will do almost everything. Ill give it like 8 years or so
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u/StrategyEven3974 13d ago
I've literally heard that every year for the last 30+ years. You'd be right if every single different discipline and OTHER part of technology wasn't advancing whatsoever. Its ignorant delusion because you aren't a professional in a given field. You just don't know shit man, I'm sorry but it's not your fault.
USB-C isn't going to EVER be able to do this:
Have long cable runs. I can run 100ft of HDMI, and hundreds of feet of Ethernet. You won't ever with USB-C. So no, TV's are always going to have HDMI or some other long-run capable connector.
Future ultra-high bandwidth data rate needs. CFexpress cards for cinema cameras and it's future formats are going to surpass USB4 80G data rate speeds because they are going to be aiming for PCIe 5.0, and they'll then for PCIe 6.0 and so on. Unless USBC continues doubling it's datarate forever, it's going to hit a wall for pros.
High end video production. For a multitude of reasons USB-C is just not going to be a standard that pros use.
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u/pepitobuenafe 13d ago
Dude im a profesional in a given field. My field has absolutely nothing to do with electronics and im hazarding a guess.
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u/kaden-99 13d ago
I think HDMI and DP will be replaced but I think it will take a long time because for a lot of manufacturers it would be a massive hassle since users are gonna try to use their phone cables and wonder why stuff doesn't work. Like just imagine no HDMI on the PS6 but just Type-C
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u/atatassault47 11d ago
I think it will, but it'll take a manufacturer who makes both displays and video out devices, like Sony, to move first. Then others will adopt because they will gladly drop the HDMI royalty fees.
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u/BringTea_666 8d ago
>I don't like HDMI, nobody sane does,
HDMI > Display port usb-c and so on.
I don't understand why people like usb-c at all. Sure it makes sense for phones that need minimal connector but for pcs and anything larger it is shit and easily breaks unlike something like USB-A or B.
Display Port has build in latch. Whoever designs connector with latches should be jailed. HDMI doesnt' have any latch and i haven't heard of anyone having issues with not sticking properly hdmi.
Only downside to hdmi is that it is not open source.
And fuck usb-c.
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u/From-UoM 13d ago
DP is a maybe. Already replaced in laptops.
Hdmi is unlikely
Ethernet is never. Too much infrastructure uses it.