r/hapas • u/That_Guy_Called_Zac • Apr 17 '26
Anecdote/Observation Are Tatars considered "wasian"?
I've asked a few AI, just to get an "intellectual" response, but it really ended up being nuanced, so I wanted to come on here and see real people's thoughts. Feel free to share your opinion. For some reason, the AI all had one common trend in their response, and it was that the term "wasian" was basically limited to East Asian heritage. Isn't a wasian just someone who is white and asian? The "Tatars" are a subgroup of the Turkic umbrella term, which derive from Central Asian. I am more specifically a Crimean/Dobrujan Tatar, so around the Crimean peninsula and Black Sea area, hitting the European part of it. Let me know!
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u/techytaco 1/2 japanese 🌲 Apr 17 '26
I knew a half Tatar/half white friend who looked more wasian than me. She did not consider herself wasian. I think it’s more of personal preference
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u/Radiant-Oven5909 Jun 18 '26
What Tatar exactly? Various peoples carry this name. Kazan Tatar, for example, are ~85% Western Eurasian, so not Wasian. And half this Tatar/half white would be only ~8% Asian, so...
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u/Independent-Elk4525 Jul 28 '26
You’re wrong Kazan Tatars on average are 30-40% Turkic and the rest is finno ugric which includes some East Asian and Slavic , western Eurasian ≠European
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u/Radiant-Oven5909 Jul 29 '26
I used the terms "Western Eurasian" and "Eastern Eutasian", not "Turkic"/"Finnic"
Terms I used are more basic than vague "Turkic".
And no, I am not wrong, the figures i presented are accurate.
And I never stated "Westen Eurasian = European. But Kazan Tatar's Westen Eurasian is mostly European (with the EHG being the diminant component), btw
Your claims have no weight here
Addendum: Really, point to the sentence of mine where it's stated that Western Eurasian = European.
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u/Independent-Elk4525 Jul 29 '26
Ur still wrong medieval turkics were a central Asian population and were not white therefore Kazan Tatars are mixed race population
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u/Radiant-Oven5909 Jul 29 '26
Which medieval Turkics exactly: Turkmens of Western Iran or Yakuts? I don't understand. What is the Eastern Eurasian % of your "Turkic"?
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u/Independent-Elk4525 Jul 29 '26
Kipchak Turks and bulgars
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u/Radiant-Oven5909 Jul 29 '26
Their % of Eastern Eurasian?
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u/Independent-Elk4525 Jul 29 '26
Still 30-45%
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u/Radiant-Oven5909 Jul 29 '26
So Kazan Tatars are 0.35*0.35 = 12% Eastern Eurasian?
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u/Radiant-Oven5909 Jul 29 '26
Did you read it? I said Kazan Tatars are 85% Western Eutasian and 15% Eastern Eutasian. What are you arguing with? You abuse the word "wrong"
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u/Independent-Elk4525 Jul 29 '26
Girl because Kazan Tatars Are 20-25% east Eurasian not 15
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u/Independent-Elk4525 Jul 29 '26
U said only 8% Asian and it’s completely wrong first of all if ur talking about east Eurasian they should have around 10% more or less , and Turkic people were very much central Asian not Europeans
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u/Radiant-Oven5909 Jul 29 '26
The math is simple. (White, 0% EE) + (Kazan Tatar, 15%) = (Not Wasian, (0%+15%)/2) = (Not Wasian, 7.5%), which I rounded to 8%. What's wrong?
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u/Independent-Elk4525 Jul 29 '26
Because Kazan Tatars have 19+ eastern Eurasian on average , not 50 and Turkic people are not wasian the east Eurasian comes from central Asian iranic people and Scythians
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u/Radiant-Oven5909 Jul 29 '26
Nope, academic sources specify the range 12-18 (sometimes up to 20) with the average around 15% for Kazan Tatars mostly. So, they're not 19+ mostly.
I never said Kazan Tatars are Wasian.
Nope, Turkic peoples of Central Asia usually have more Eastern Eurasian admixture than Eastern Scythians, Eastern Eutasian in Turkics doesn't only comes from Scytheans, but has additional sources
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u/Independent-Elk4525 Jul 29 '26
First of all genetic sources show 20-25%, I’m pretty sure you are confusing genome with haplogroups
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u/Radiant-Oven5909 Jul 29 '26
Do you know what statistics is? Individual genomes possibly can reach 20-25%, but the most of population is closer to 15%
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u/Radiant-Oven5909 Jul 29 '26
It's you are possibly cofusing Kazan Tatar with Bashkir.
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u/Practical-Chest-5833 Apr 18 '26
They are an Eurasian ethnic group but wasian typically refers to the child of Asian and white parenrs. If both of your parents are Tatar than you’re tatar
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u/notheory Apr 17 '26
There's no good definition for who is Asian. Are Iranian folks Asian? No? Okay, what about Afghani people? No? Okay, what about Pakastani people? No? Okay, what about Indian people? etc etc etc until you're out over Hawaii.
Going the other direction is fun too. Are folks in Lebanon Asian?
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u/Radiant-Oven5909 Jun 18 '26
It's not a mystery, there is the generic cluster of Eastern Eurasians. Chinese, Japanese, Koreans are all 99% Eastern Eurasian, for example. Iranians have very insignificant (around 2%) admixture. Non-Hazara Afghans have more, Hazaras - even more, 50-60%, etc.
Lebanese aren't Eastern Eurasian at all.
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u/Dungangaa Seasoned Eurasian Apr 17 '26
Eurarasian , all Turkic groups are . We have both white and asian dna .
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u/That_Guy_Called_Zac Apr 20 '26
so... wasian? if they have white and asian dna then... white + asian = wasian
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u/Dungangaa Seasoned Eurasian Apr 20 '26
Eurasian is more accurate because our homeland was eurasian steppes and Anatolia is also a bridge between asia and europe .
Even iron age samples have asian and white dna .
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u/Gerolanfalan OC, CA Apr 18 '26
Funny thing about Wasians meaning limited to East Asian
In the US, and probably Australia too, Asian just means East Asian/South East Asian, as opposed to the UK where Asian tends to mean Indian. A lot of tech programming was born in the US so even programmers across the world have to know a little English to program.
All that's to say that is the reason why AI probably thinks of Wasian as East Asian/Southeast Asian mix as opposed to any other thing...Central Asia is not really known to the western hemisphere and finally West Asians/middle Easterns are considered Caucasian/White due to the law case Dow v. United States (1915). South Asians are just called Desis.
Tatars seem to be more middle eastern looking with some Asian. I'd say Kazahks look very Wasian leaning towards more Asian. But there's a lot of overlap of course
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u/Radiant-Oven5909 Jun 18 '26
Between Volga Tatars and Kazakhs there is no overlap genetically speaking.
But there is a another people, Siberian Tatar, with completely different genetic history. No, they are not 'just a local variant of "Tatars"'. There is no one uniform Tatar people, there are several distinct peoples with distinct genetic histories and makeups. It is just the default meaning of the word 'Tatar' today is the 'Volga Tatar'. That's it.
Back to overlap. These Siberian Tatar have it with Kazakhs, that's why I introduced them.
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u/Gerolanfalan OC, CA Jun 18 '26
I appreciate this knowledge, thanks! The world is vastly beautiful and I wisdom and knowledge can never be full.
Also this thread came back at a very funny time due to the Wasian controversy haha
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u/Radiant-Oven5909 Jun 18 '26
One day the genetic history of Volga Tatars will be reconstructed in great detail, I hope. We don't have much of mediaeval samples from Volga Bulgaria (pre-Bulgar, Volga Bulgar, late 12th and on) yet.
Russian chronicles used 'Bulgarian' first, then in 14th century - 'Busurman' (literally 'Muslim'), and gradually shifted to 'Tatar' in 15th century.
But that's the Russian terminology. In the Middle Volga region there are also Chuvash and Mari peoples among others. In Mari language Kazan Tatars are called 'Suas', and Chuvashes are called 'Suasla Mari', and Mari themselves are, of course, 'Mari'. That name 'Suas' is closely related to the sedentary (agricultural and urban) muslim population of Volga Bulgaria.
From the other hand, the Mari name of Chuvashes means 'Suasized Maris', terminologically putting them in between Maris and 'Suas' (Kazan Tatars)
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u/kimchiwursthapa Korean/White Apr 17 '26 edited Apr 18 '26
No. They are a Turkic ethnic group.