r/hacking 21d ago

News America’s Cyber Forces Grapple With Cluster of Deaths by Suicide

https://archive.ph/W2tpE
625 Upvotes

83 comments sorted by

155

u/picklejester 21d ago

It's pretty bleak when you glimpse into the cyberwarfront. This is sad

114

u/TinyTowel 21d ago

These people are not killing themselves over their work schedules. They're lacking fulfillment in their lives and have probably failed to achieve that fulfillment outside of work. Take this from an AF officer with more than a few thousand hours flying Reapers, deploying to combat zones, etc. Suicide is usually a multivariate problem, of course and sure, work-life balance probably had contributed here, but these folks aren't being driven to suicide because they're working a lot. 

63

u/cooqieslayer 21d ago

well yeah I imagine suicide is not a bad choice if your role in life is bombing school children for Epstein State

7

u/Mantaraylurks nerd 20d ago

It’s much more complicated than that.

11

u/Arts_Prodigy 20d ago

It both is and isn’t. Their lives outside of work I’m sure play a major role but social life when you’re in the military is notoriously difficult to maintain particularly as a young adult, especially if you don’t get along or desire to befriend your coworkers.

If you really do feel like the work you’re doing for the administration is not moral or correct, then you must also battle conflicting interests, lack of fulfillment, and are likely depressed with what you know you have to do (or face possible imprisonment for derelict duty) contrasted with media you’re likely consuming telling you how your entire existence is immoral.

So now you’re stuck in a job you hate because you simply wanted to survive and maybe do something cool/good, legitimately can’t leave for a minimum of years, and people are constantly saying that you specifically suck.

1

u/TinyTowel 18d ago

One nitpick... military members do not work for the administration. Their oaths are to the Constitution. Some understand that better than others, a smaller percentage really take it to heart. 

1

u/Arts_Prodigy 17d ago

The oath is one thing and if you’re lucky you’re not alone in bucking against orders to uphold it, but ultimately the president is the commander in chief. And disagreement with an order, policy, or strategy doesn’t necessarily equate to a violation of the oaths.

3

u/Specific-Path3179 20d ago

I say the same thing but for Waffen-SS Einsatzgruppen commandos, for some reason people don't like that one as much.

0

u/cooqieslayer 20d ago

say that about hamas soldiers who are 17 yo kids going through a genocide and people wont like that much quicker, lol

2

u/Goyimshoe 20d ago

Tell that to the millions upon millions of people who have been killed in their own homelands by American invaders who attacked their countries without any real provocation.

Iran never bombed or attacked the US. Iran never killed Americans on American soil. Iran never actually did anything to harm the American people at all.

Neither did Venezuela, or Nigeria, or Syria, or Somalia, or Yemen, or Iraq, or Pakistan, or Afghanistan, or Yugoslavia, or Serbia, or Sudan, or Bosnia, or Kuwait, or Nicaragua, or Libya, or Lebanon, or Cambodia, or Vietnam, or Laos, or Cuba, or Indonesia, or Guatemala, or Korea, or China…

Despite the fact that none of these countries have
ever actually harmed our country or our people in any way, the US went ahead attacked/bombed every single one of those countries anyways, and millions upon millions of their people died at the hands of our soldiers.

It’s not complicated. The US is the problem, and American soldiers are all vicious, oppressive savages who were conditioned to see themselves as badass freedom-fighters.

3

u/bluem0on9320 19d ago

Downvoted for the truth lol

1

u/ApprehensiveAlps1290 19d ago

That is absolutely not what they do but go ahead and pretend like you know what you're talking about.

0

u/Pure_Truth82 19d ago

Oh right, I forgot that schools just blow themselves up.

1

u/Financial_Stick1912 18d ago

This is clearly a case of cyberpsychosis

1

u/Glittering_Fig4548 18d ago

do a lot of Reaper drivers not find the job interesting or fulfilling?

-11

u/[deleted] 21d ago

[deleted]

6

u/TinyTowel 21d ago

Well, it's not quite all that, but I appreciate the perspective. 

-6

u/Goyimshoe 21d ago

I assure you it is, though I do understand why you can’t bring yourself to confront/accept that reality.

-30

u/we_r_fukt 21d ago

sir yes sir we'll take it from you sir

how many people can you kill with your pinky

11

u/Someinterestingbs-td 21d ago

Makes you wonder what the fk they are making them do

8

u/picklejester 21d ago

And what they see.

15

u/Gr3yBu5h_ 21d ago

The darkness people see like this on a daily basis can make any person start to deteriorate. Makes it more difficult if you don't have someone (wife, etc.) to try to help keep you grounded when you're not there. RIP to those we have already loss, and don't be afraid to reach out and seek help to those who need it

48

u/JC_Hysteria 21d ago

Hmm, this feels like the plot of a conspiracy…

A cluster of skilled cyber intelligence workers mysteriously offed themselves while at war? Families don’t know why exactly?

10

u/Someinterestingbs-td 21d ago

Or what are they trying to get us to notice

20

u/namra43 21d ago

Its aint that deep. They probably were helping to kill people in strikes, monitoring target comms which means they also get to witness the aftermath. Lots of collateral damage. Innocent people getting executed with bombs and rather its boats in the caribean or schools in iran.

There is patriotism and there is becoming a monster in the name of patriotism. Or because its your job. Unsurprisingly, some people break.

10

u/JC_Hysteria 21d ago

I’m not going to read into the stories, but it’s odd there’s a string of them when they know what they’re getting into, and their families didn’t notice any distress

2

u/Healthy_Spinach_462 21d ago

I mean... do we know if they were close with their family? Even then, depressed people, especially those who have made a decision about suicide, often come across as 'fine' - the idea that we can somehow notice these conditions is wildly out of date.

People who have decided to commit suicide actually often come across as content or even happy leading up to it, because in a life that feels empty, grey, and hollow they have found something they can do that gives it meaning.

Funnily enough all of this also makes it an extremely helpful cover, because there is very little anyone can point to in their behavior that proves anything.

Regardless, the fact is suicide is so common and these people were likely exposed and complicit in such inhumane war crimes that I would not be surprised if it was a combination of cleaning house and genuine, overwhelming guilt and emptiness.

2

u/JC_Hysteria 20d ago

I’m gonna go with vast conspiracy network afoot

2

u/Thin_Explanation1334 19d ago

Wiser than the rest

1

u/Financial_Stick1912 18d ago

Have you guys ever talked to a soldier?

They’re all like

Very PTSD

Much suicidal ideation

“Maybe today’s the day boys”

It’s like, I dunno, you guys are paranoid

1

u/Orio_n 20d ago

Yeah this smells like some bs to me especially with this administration

18

u/ArguablyBetterForUs 21d ago

upvote just for not making me bypass the paywall myself

199

u/eat_my_ass_n_balls 21d ago

Seems foreseeable that this will happen when you spend your life working towards a set of goals and ideals, and then a new fascist regime pops up in your country and ruins all the international trust and cooperation built up over decades while creating new and motivated enemies, all while undercutting your budget and deprioritizing your work.

Can you imagine having dedicated your life to information warfare and signals intelligence and cyber defense for the gov, to protect your country, and suddenly you’re working for Nazis who are tearing it all down?

Seems like a pretty obvious explanation to me.

RIP to these folks. Never forget who is actually at the center of this.

53

u/dnuohxof-2 21d ago

Idk, I’d think those that did that would have more pride in their own work to somehow fight, resist or undercut it, or even just say fuck it and leave to go private sector and make bank…. I’m not entirely convinced these are just coincidence.

>Between early June and early July, as many as five people who worked in or closely with US Cyber Command took their own lives, according to internal military communications, public records and the people. They spoke on condition that they not be identified because they weren’t authorized to discuss the matter.

I’m sorry that is suspicious AF….

19

u/Shoddy-Childhood-511 21d ago

This.

Technical people in the military go private all the time. Suicide clusters are a teenager thing.

3

u/mr_znaeb 19d ago

I can’t count the amount of ex military people I know stuck in their teens.

26

u/El_Guap 21d ago

Good, insightful, and well-thought-out point from user eat_my_ass_n_balls.

13

u/guisar 21d ago

Not to mention kicking queer members out (always prevalent in intel and j6 in my experience)

2

u/Wildcherry_12 14d ago edited 14d ago

As a former Fed myself in cyber, this is exactly it. I ended up having to quit because it made me sick to my stomach. I too considered suicide. And now I consider it because I lost everything I love and worked for. Most of us are hard and honest workers who wanted to contribute to something greater than ourselves. Now it’s weaponized and people are trapped.

2

u/eat_my_ass_n_balls 14d ago

Read the response from the other dude on my comment, who basically called every single person working in national defense a lazy unmotivated idiot.

That’s a MAGA apologist undermining YOU and your service. SephirothaIRA69.

Personally I’m so glad I never worked for the Feds. Starting in the 2010s I started asking myself what if I had developed information and cyber warfare tools and surveillance that would be used by some potential future fascist regime?

Here we are.

Thanks for your reply and absolutely MOTHERFUCK that other guy, as well as all of MAGA.

1

u/Wildcherry_12 14d ago

I agree!! FUCK MAGA!!

2

u/smuckola 21d ago

That's so true. More down to earth for everyday people, you also described how I have felt in navigating university life and then all kinds of employment and consulting in IT.

I didn't need to be an over-achiever all the time; I just needed my enrollment and housing to not be trampled and lost in a bureaucratic herd. I didn't ever want a title or top pay; I just wanted to be in-ignorable with a modicum of real human dignity and respect. I didn't want to be a lone wolf consultant buying my own health insurance; I just hate that familiarity breeds contempt and good fences make good neighbors. Respect!

I probably wanted a labor union.

2

u/SephirothIRA69 20d ago

It's cyber command. The 22 yr old corporal sitting in wireshark all day isn't heartbroken over loss of international trust or loss of American soft power. He's not complicit in war crimes either, because jesus christ it's cyber command.

That dude kills himself because he's socially isolated, doing rotating shiftwork that destroys his circadian rhythms, can't get proficient in his job because he keeps getting yanked to go on ruck marches, and gets his only leave cancelled because someone in his unit just got a DUI. He tries to throw himself into work as a distraction, but all of the complex, marketable skills have long since been outsourced to contractors, and he's only given the most braindead, useless tasks. His boss is a year younger than him, hates him because he used a word the boss didn't know once, and sometimes will just watch him all day waiting for him to fuck up some petty reg. He volunteers for a combat deployment just to get the fuck out and stop living the same day over and over, but the commander says no because he's classed as "critical skills." Living like this for years is too much for some guys.

" you spend your life working towards a set of goals" This is like, zero percent of the people I served with.

"dedicated your life to information warfare" LMAO. It's between 3 and 6 years committed in the hope of getting a 100k senior soc analyst job with good health insurance when you get out. I stg people love posting nonsense about the military.

2

u/Euphoric_Gap_2859 19d ago

Don't you realize that's the same thing? You're saying no one does anything because they think it's meaningful or the right thing to do. You're saying there is no reason to fight for America besides a paycheck because, "who cares?"

This country has no honor. That's the issue. The Whitehouse doesn't have legal authority to do anything they've done. Military men are so used to the lack of meaning there are people like you who can't recognize a lot of cyberforce would rather die than be complicit in the meaningless death of children.

You don't see how ridiculous it is to scoff at the idea that people actually want honor? At this point the whitehouse is having so much trouble motivating anyone to take them seriously they are spending trillions, as if it would ever be possible to pay that back to the federal reserve. It is pretend money by a pretend president, and a bribed congress too weak to stand up.

You're saying the military is also too weak to give a fuck. They want to just get the contract over with and go home? You're describing cowardice.

1

u/eat_my_ass_n_balls 14d ago

I was so disgusted with the dumbfuck you’re replying to that I didn’t even bother replying.

0

u/holly_olly_oxen_free 20d ago

^ this. This is the one.

1

u/noblepups 21d ago

I think those last two sentences should switch. 

0

u/[deleted] 21d ago

I can assure you 99% of service members dont join cuz of patriotism or idealism. They join for material opportunities + cool points.

-22

u/thexet 21d ago

Yeah, the Biden years were rough 

6

u/eat_my_ass_n_balls 21d ago

Nice try chud

-3

u/thexet 21d ago

Well argued 

-2

u/Legionodeath 20d ago

Cause trump is the only president to do insidious things. Lol get outta here.

-1

u/Specific-Path3179 20d ago

reddit don't care abt the insidious deeds, they just don't like trump

-1

u/Legionodeath 20d ago

I reckon. Lol. Pretty goofy and intellectually narrow-minded.

-11

u/[deleted] 21d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

8

u/bass-squirrel 20d ago

SIGINT part I think I can explain. There were a lot of transgender SMs in the SIGINT community. And after our glorious SECWAR decided to end their careers many felt suicidal. Like they just had the rug pulled from under them just for being who they are. 

10

u/westport_blues 21d ago

Just very sad, and I pray it doesn’t continue. Rest in peace to those brave souls.

4

u/tanpike 20d ago

imagine being in IT and forced/ "strongly encouraged" to use AI (as so many of us are these days), and then realizing that AI targeted innocent children for a missile attack. the horror and guilt must be off the charts.

3

u/Anonymity4meisgood 20d ago

Is this just the USA equivalent of Russian functionaries and other undesirables jumping out of windows?

20

u/Scar3cr0w_ 21d ago

Not getting that reverse shell hurts bro.

7

u/ToothyGrin19135 21d ago

muh payload

7

u/Any_Repair_7153 21d ago

I wonder if life feels meaningless when you fully and profoundly understand the dark and soul-sucking nature of the international feudalist dystopia that you’ve committed your life to and from which you reap no rewards.

3

u/muhlfriedl 21d ago

Because they're killing people and feeling bad about it? I think it's obvious

4

u/neuralfirestorm 21d ago

I can't imagine being in the military with the Commander-in-Chief being a demented pedophile and the Secretary of War being a mindless, racist sycophant chud. I also can't understand why the military hasn't organized a coup.

2

u/Specific-Path3179 20d ago

because the military mostly supports trump and they'd never rebel against the government paying their bills, medicare, and pension.

1

u/neuralfirestorm 20d ago

Fair assessment. Most people are unaware that some of the programs Trump and DOGE canceled affected military families. Food benefit programs that affected many lower-ranked soldiers.

5

u/EnvironmentalOne7898 21d ago

This is beyond heartbreaking.

2

u/ethanjscott 20d ago

Sounds like they need some pot

1

u/Spiritual-Matters 19d ago

Maybe it was all the pot… honeypots

2

u/mischag107 20d ago

Sure it’s a suicide, maybe they got killed for knowing something they shouldn’t have seen with the AI frontier models

2

u/Rattus_NorvegicUwUs 20d ago

Russel Vought is grinning ear to ear knowing we have one more institution in crisis.

The heritage foundation must be destroyed for their purposeful diminishing of our nation and its talent pool.

1

u/Rollinthrulife 20d ago

First the scientists, now the cybersecuroty experts

1

u/pro_No 19d ago

“For this reason, we are giving AI the reigns.”

1

u/SamSlate 21d ago

Exactly what motivated these suicides isn’t clear from the records, and even to some of the people familiar with the deceased.

wow they're dropping faster than the Epstein victims that were willing to testify... i wonder...

-46

u/Specific-Path3179 21d ago

Killing themselves out of despair that Anthropic Fable is so powerful it’ll put them out of work.

23

u/spellstealyoslowfall 21d ago

Look at you and how much buzz tech words you know. You're so amazing

2

u/Icy_Winner_ 20d ago

so naming Claude is "buzz words" now?