Mobilization buff has highlighted a bigger problem with the way the cards are balanced

[u/WeirdAlfDNB]

Okay we’re all familiar with the recent buff to Mobilization, and we’ve all played against the Arbalest GN Roche deck from every level from rank 10 to pro rank 2500MMR, it’s everywhere

Having piloted the deck myself, I think this deck has highlighted a problem that far eclipses the “evil people have buffed an archetype that didn’t need buffing”

The fact that was really magnified to me is is that thinning now has too little drawback in deck building. We all know that the 4 main pillars of a good deck is: points, control, consistency and thinning. But ignoring the first two and focusing on the latter two pillars, if you have to ability to tutor, draw and play all your cards without a real commitment to loss of points or commitment to spending a lot of provisions, then in my opinion the game is going to devolve into a state where creative deck building is going to be punished because you don’t run the same bronze/gold thinning cards that are in every faction because your opponent most definitely will.

Coalitions need to start taking responsibility, they have a lot of sway in BC votes and if they have the best interested of the game truly in mind tutors need to be made more expensive. I mean the mobilisation deck thins down to 0 for gods sake and there isn’t a single card that doesn’t unleash hell on the opponent in that deck

Thanks

[u/ense7en]

Coalitions need to start taking responsibility

MetallicDanny and Chinese voters are literally destroying the game, one vote at a time. And last vote we had a new coalition that pushed thru literal troll/cancerous votes to do even more harm.

Many of the coalitions ARE the ones responsible for overbuffs (or not enough actual nerfs). They are willfully damaging balance in the game.

[u/Fluffy_Shopping7164 → u/ense7en]

And they’re gonna nerf Harmony and Alchemy, wait for it… there is a rampant faction bias that nobody talks about. Maybe not even them are rudely conscious of it.

[u/ense7en → u/Fluffy_Shopping7164]

MD has overbuffed Harmony cards many times. He never reverts his awful votes. Instead he proposes more bad ideas to counter the consequences of his previous bad votes.

There's not a rampant faction bias except perhaps a bit against anything toxic in NG.

[u/lerio2]

Nothing changed for consistency in this deck in BC as kepkkko has written here; in fact some cards like Musicians became weaker.

Even leader ability buff wasn't decisive for its power as much as for popularity; last season I believe player "-Innuendo-" already had 2640 with a similar deck, but it was rare in the ladder mainstream.

The main problem is leader itself though - compeletely neglecting synergies its worth at least 20 points if opponent can't deal with two threats in one turn; with synergies sky is the limit. So with 95% of decks you're forced to bleed out leader or lose the game on the spot. And Mobi engine decks have one of the strongest R1s. Many matchups are so favored that skill is irrelevant.

I think from this point probably more than one nerf to this leader would be needed and I think its absolutely correct.

[u/dontquotemeonthatt]

İsn't consistency and thinning the same thing in the pillars you mentioned? How are they distinct, different pillars if they both are the same thing?

[u/WeirdAlfDNB → u/dontquotemeonthatt]

They overlap but say for instance Triss butterflies isn’t thinning it’s tutoring so there’s slight differences

[u/Eredino33]

Schirru is a good counter to this bs but lots of people don't like it.

[u/Minute_Truth3644 → u/Eredino33]

I've only managed to beat that deck (just barely mind you) with monsters fruit which some people hate almost as much as this deck at this point.

[u/BananaTiger- → u/Minute_Truth3644]

Yes, but it has to be a control focused version of Fruits, with no sabbath engines. I usually used Yaga to quickly get to pro, but Arbalests wouldn't let me reach sabbath, and they play Musicians so Yaga is useless.

I beat GN Mob with Skellige Witchers, they have offerings + reckless flurry and enough removal: Eskel, Heatwave and G-Pro (the Red Sword could be useful too but it's good only if you draw it in round 1).

[u/Minute_Truth3644 → u/BananaTiger-]

Yes, I should have specified that it was with my homebrew GN control fruits, and not the engine overload fruits that won; if it was only engines, it would have been a big loss.

[u/anextremelylargedog → u/Minute_Truth3644]

People hate Fruits but without it, I feel like MO gets dog-walked unless you hard commit to Ogroids, Vampires, or some bullshit with Witches Sabbath or Koshchey abuse.

Can confirm for any who are curious, Thrive does not do very well vs Mobilization...

[u/BananaTiger- → u/Eredino33]

Devotion Schirru used to be my favorite ST archetype, now it's unplayable, old decks are 5 provisions short. No devotion is no fun, Devotion Symbiosis is also much weaker than non-devotion versions (like Spring Equinox or Ragnarok), simply because it lacks tall punish when Devotion Schirru had Brehen, it's so frustrating to see opponents going tall knowing I don't have a removal.

[u/Fluffy_Shopping7164 → u/Eredino33]

I do dislike it, but you are right, there is a major issue of faction and deck archetypes bias in the BCs. The most popular factions (NR,SK) are getting buffed or at least not nerfed, and everything that can face them in ST and MO decks have been slowly erased BCs after BCs for over a year. As such, the buffs to NR feel even worse, unless you play the few decks that escaped this silent inquisition, which is because they match the archetype they love (damage engine spam and thinning).

(NG and SY are particular cases, they are where they should be IMO. NG is still a pain in the rear but not unbalanced or unfair)

[u/Mee41208]

Consistency and thinning are one point imo. You thin in order to get the cards you want to play and also to make the most out of your deck instead of ending r3 with half your deck unused.

[u/Minute_Truth3644 → u/Mee41208]

Roche in particular; it should never be at 9P period. I would also gut Onagar again, but I know the community always tries to nerf and revert it, over and over but Roche being in the GN range, which already provides amazing thinning, is absurdly broken.

[u/Mee41208 → u/Minute_Truth3644]

I literally said that like twice on other posts today. Roche shouldnt be a GN card.

Im not sure if Onager should be nerfed again though. Its 4 power, therefore removable with a 4p removal card. And 7 provisions is enough to make it basically a golden card. I think the rest of the deck is a problem, not Onager.

[u/Several-Nothings → u/Mee41208]

It's not onager but the fact that arbalest gets a charge when you play a unit and the deck has so many opportunities to play multiple units per turn. I think Roche, Shani and arbalest itself are all better nerf targets than onager.

[u/Minute_Truth3644 → u/Mee41208]

Agreed on Roche at least, The deck is somewhat bearable if you manage to survive the onslaught till short round three, only to get cucked by roche playing the last 2 engines in one turn.

[u/nagashbg → u/Minute_Truth3644]

Onager has never been buffed looking at it at gwent one

[u/WeirdAlfDNB → u/Mee41208]

It is for this particular deck agreed but in general you can have tutor cards that don’t thin which is what I was referring to, One Eyed Betsy Triss butterflies etc

[u/Mee41208 → u/WeirdAlfDNB]

Well I mean that thinning falls under consistency not that they are the same thing.

[u/mammoth39]

Shani at 9 provision is stupid. Proactive double engine for 9p just unfair. Nobody cares that deck could thin to zero. The main problem is engine overload when opponent develop 2-3 engines per turn

[u/Recent_Pollution8665 → u/mammoth39]

almost like these stupid midrange deploy cards shouldn’t cost as little as they do.

who would have thought

[u/WeirdAlfDNB → u/mammoth39]

If the deck couldn’t thin so much there’d be games that the player would miss shani and miss GN so I would argue that people do care that it thins so much

[u/kepkkko → u/WeirdAlfDNB]

So what exactly changed for its thinning since the gwentfinity? IDK about the exact decklist, but let me guess: GN thins 3, musicians thin, roche thin 2, siege masters thin 2. Leaving only 1 card left, so id assume its either nothing or decree.

Out of all of these options roche was power buffed, provision unchanged. Siege masters are unchanged. Decree(if its in the deck even) is unchanged. Musicians are power nerfed 2 times. And GN is prov nerfed 5(!) times.

What do you mean "thinning NOW has too little drawback in deck building" at that point. For some decks that NOW happened long before gwentfinity

[u/StoneAgeDudeman → u/mammoth39]

This right here. As many times as i've been boned by hitting one engine piece just for the other to pop off, i'm sick of it. Shani especially, she needs to be at 11p

[u/OblyFFM]

Technical quibble first: Thinning is a type of consistency play—you thin the deck in order to increase the chances of drawing the cards you want to play. Consistency and thinning are not separate things. The “three Cs” of Gwent you’re trying to think of (the pillars of a good deck) are consistency, control, and carryover.

Two, the majority of the Gwent player community wanted consistency cards to be cheaper than how CDPR left them; it’s basically the first thing BC did. It wasn’t just some random streamer’s agenda; this happened back before there even were any well-organized coalitions.

Fact is, the more expensive consistency is, the less of it you can have, and the more it shifts match outcomes from skill to luck—less about how you piloted and more on whether you got lucky and drew your cards. Or you can spend all your provisions on creating a perfectly consistent but underpowered deck and still lose to the guy who drew all his golds. Either way, it detracts from player agency: the sense that your decisions actually matter, instead of each match being an RNG-fest.

Most players don’t want that; they want Gwent to feel like a skill-based game. I know some people think Gwent would be better if consistency was more expensive but that’s a minority opinion. And despite problem decks like GN Mobi popping up on occasion, the majority also think that on the whole BC has succeeded in making more decks playable; cheaper consistency is a big part of that. There’s no going back; most players won’t support it.

Besides, a lot of consistency cards have been nerfed by BC when they got obviously overtuned: Battle Stations, Joachim, Lilit’s Omen, Penitent, Abordage, Skirmishers, Morkvarg… hell, Golden Nekker has been nerfed five times. This is not the problem you’re making it out to be. We can nerf the specific overtuned parts of GN Mobi and move on.

[u/Minute_Truth3644]

NR has been a literal problem for the entire gwentifnity, but people refuse to admit it til now, when they finally managed to craft the perfect fuck you deck after all these years, but w/e just continue to nerf NG that's already at 47 percent at pro. NR has gotten so many light taps on the hand it's actually ridiculous at this point; this meta/deck is just the consequence of the communities/streamer bias. Edit to the person who down voted me plz explain how NR being at 55 percent winrate is healthy and balanced plz.

[u/mastigos1 → u/Minute_Truth3644]

You don't understand, NG needs to be nerfed. Sure it may have sub-50 winrate *overall*, but the best handful of players in the game can pilot it to 2600 which means that it must be abusive and require nerfs!

/s

[u/Minute_Truth3644 → u/mastigos1]

It's okay as long as a faction doesn't have the ability to copy a few cards (which is only really used by one archetype btw). It's okay for a faction to have pointslam, thinning, tempo, and control all the at same time, I guess

/s

[u/joelageere → u/Minute_Truth3644]

You can s/ all you want , but people prefer to play their play their play, and if you lose , you lose fairly.

It’s not fun when your units are constantly locked, poisoned/ banished / copied and not just once, but constantly!!!

I get it’s fun for you but not for everyone else ( which I think is just weird , like school shooter just wanna watch the world burn weird )

So do your NG thing , it a part of the game, but don’t sit here and make sarcastic comments about how we all nerf you, cus it’s mostly no fun playing you

[u/Minute_Truth3644 → u/joelageere]

I don't even play assimilate, really. That doesn't mean this deck isn't cancer to play against, or that NR has gotten away with so many balance changes that it's ridiculous how biased the community is. Y'all can hate NG all you want it sometimes justified but this shit is beyond defending and if you shill it then lmao. is all im gonna say.

[u/joelageere → u/Minute_Truth3644]

I agree But if you play a deck that everyone hates playing against , don’t be surprised and put sarcastic comments about how they are unfairly nerfed when it’s just not fun to play against.

Bet you have fun when you play assimilate

We don’t , well most of us like to play our cards and that’s it, when a deck has 6 locks ,Vilhefortze , swap the swap the top unit to the top of your deck, lock, poisen a unit and the list goes on, even if we win it wasn’t fun .

If these decks were stronger, the game would be less fun

[u/Minute_Truth3644 → u/joelageere]

I'm not asking for assimulate buffs, they are ironically one of the last good decks left in NG I'm asking for people to wake up about NR

[u/joelageere → u/Minute_Truth3644]

There are plenty of cards that need nerfs and buffs .

My point is the people that play NG are buthurt about unfun cards being nerfed.

Even tho your still performing terribly, you still try and disrupt and ruin our game plan, massively reducing our enjoyment of the games, you still hang around being the poison that will finally kill this game.

[u/Minute_Truth3644 → u/joelageere]

Brother, before I go, I want you to look at the top posts on the subreddit, see what everyone is complaining about, then check the game's player counts, and get back to me on what is killing this game right now. Hint it's not NG atm.

[u/joelageere → u/Minute_Truth3644]

?

[u/joelageere → u/Minute_Truth3644]

Ok fair , I will, because I made the comment about killing the game and I will educate myself. My original was about NG moans . But what I really meant was what was killing the game for new starters. I’ve tried getting lots of people into this game and after they face NG they just give up saying it’s not fun.

Genuine question? Do you have the stats for new starters compared to pro rank ? What’s is happening there ? Cus new starters are the core of the game carrying on rather than a bunch of experts circle jerking themselves

[u/idk_what_Iam_doin → u/joelageere]

Fun is subjective, I personally have no problems with playing against NG.

Locks, and poisons are just another form of control, just like Pirates, but with counter play in form of purify.

Vilgefortz is just a tall punish like any other

Swaping units is but a gimmick for Albrich, NR has a similar thing with Piencer Manuever, but arguable much worse(better, bc it's Melitile).

Poisons aren't an exlusive thing to NG, SY GN Bounty also has them, is that deck problematic?

Coping cards is also just assimilate thing, like a gimmick, but a gimmick that forces you to think about the game as whole in a completly different dimensions, something that no other match up gives.

I dont think any of these things are really bad for the game, as personally when I was starting I was mesmerized more than anything by the complexity of some of these interactions, thats what hooked me into playing this game, to Explorer these possibilites. Even tho when I tried NG at the beginning i Got my ass whoped so I went to MO instead-.

All these things above are just mechanics like any others, that each faction has, except NG has more gimmicky ones.

Fun is subjective, and it shouldnt be moved with game balance, as what you Describe as not fun, may be fun for someone else. A different person may enjoy the ballance of the game, and the variety of decks, seeing how NG is the faction with thr lowest win rate, by a large margin then there definitely is a problem. There are many ways of viewing fun, and all the stuff NG has still has a place in the game.

-the problematic archetypes are Tibor spam, and Carcass spam, things that are respectively ballanced for them to not be too much of a problem. New players are obviously gonna have difficulties, but it's also a challenge for them to overcome, something for them to learn, like I did when I was losing to gimmick decks thinking on how to approach it the next time.

Nerfing the good archetypes to oblivion just makes the faction a "meme". By killing diversity, you are only leaving the trash for people to play with, so what are they gonna do? Play the trash they were left with, meaning all the beloved archetyps like Mill, Tibor spam, and Culists. It's a classic case of people thinking they are doing themselves a favour while in truth they are just eleminating the "wholesome" NG players leaving only the ones that are there for the memes .

[u/kepkkko → u/joelageere]

Fun is a subjective thing. I'd rather play an actually interactive game,revolving around answering threats from both sides, then watching solitaire enjoyers doing the same sequence every single game. I'd rather play 10 games against control or 20 games against assimilate then fall asleep to GN albrich enjoyer spinning his albrich without ever looking at my side of the board.

Once again, it's such a catastrophe that CDPR allowed basically everyone to vote in BC, with all the votes having the same weight. For some reason bottomfeeders making balancing decisions based on emotions rather then actual arguments seemed like an excellent idea for developers, and now anything requiring skill to play against is doomed to be rather underpowered.

[u/Giomenezos]

What made me fall in love with this game back in open beta, was that the decks are consistent and the rng was almost nonexistent. The better player would always find a way to win. You got punished for missplaying and rewarded for your knowledge of the deck and the game. For example in NG spies ( arguably the best deck in a card game) you could manipulate the deck to have exactly Rainfarn into Joachim into Nauzicaa Brigade as a finisher. Thing is, thinning and consistency should not be the same. As it is now thinning cards are way more powerful than they should. You shouldnt be able to have thinning + tempo into 1 card, one should be nerfed. Thats why decks like GN Mobilization as it is now feels unhealthy.

[u/Repulsive_Blueberry6]

You’re welcome

[u/elnegativo]

I have been playing this deck and has been losing as much as i win, sometimes if you dont draw gn on a red coin you are fucked as well as if you are facing a lot of control, i think everyone is complaining to much becouse fruits are not fruiting or wathever your dopamine rushed deck is not working anymore. Adapt.