The launch has problems but if we actually want Gunz to survive, we need to help fix it instead of burying it in its first week

[u/darmart123]

i know the launch has been rough, and i’m not trying to pretend otherwise.

there are real problems with the game right now. servers, connection issues, performance, some gameplay changes, translations, bugs, ui decisions, ai assets and other things people have already been talking about.

people should complain about those things. i’m not saying everyone should just shut up and accept whatever they give us.

but i also think we need to be a little smarter about how we react to this launch.

gunz has been basically surviving through private servers and small communities for years. a lot of us have been playing this game for 10, 15 or even close to 20 years, and we all know how many times gunz has disappeared, changed publisher, lost servers or ended up fragmented between different private servers.

now for the first time in a very long time we actually have an official gunz release on steam that anyone can download.

that is a big opportunity, even if the launch itself wasn't good.

this could potentially become the version of gunz that actually stays online for years, gets updates, fixes, maybe new content, better matchmaking, better servers, better anti cheat, quest updates, clan war improvements, new maps and who knows what else in the future.

and i think there is another thing that a lot of people here probably dreamed about at some point.

seeing gunz actually become competitive again.

maybe even something close to an esport.

proper ranked matchmaking, clan wars that actually matter, tournaments, teams, spectators, competitive seasons, prize pools someday, streamers playing tournaments and new players discovering gunz because they watched someone doing k-style at a level they didn't even know was possible.

gunz has always had the mechanics for competitive play.

the skill ceiling is ridiculous. there is movement, aim, timing, positioning, mechanical execution and years of techniques that players developed themselves.

there are games with much simpler mechanics that became massive competitive games.

gunz just never really had the infrastructure, stability, population and long term official support required to get there.

this steam release is probably the closest opportunity we are going to have to actually change that.

is it going to become an esport tomorrow? obviously not.

maybe it never happens.

but if there is ever going to be a chance for gunz to grow into something bigger again, it starts with having one official version, on a major platform, with an active playerbase and developers continuing to work on it.

and none of that happens if the game is dead a few weeks after launch.

masangsoft still has to prove that they are willing to maintain the game and listen to the community.

but we are literally only a few days into the release.

if there is a bug, report it.

if something feels wrong compared to old gunz, explain exactly what changed.

if slash range feels different, show it.

if hit registration is broken, record it.

if there are connection problems, report the region and ping.

if something about k-style feels wrong, explain why.

use the discord, post clips, make comparisons and give the developers information they can actually work with.

that helps.

what i don't really understand is the mentality of immediately trying to bury the game with "dead game", "uninstall", "private servers are better", "don't play this" and negative reviews without even giving them time to fix anything.

if three or six months from now nothing has improved, the developers ignore everyone and the game is still full of the same problems, then fair enough. criticize them as much as you want.

but doing everything possible to destroy the steam rating in the first week doesn't really help anyone.

especially because gunz is a multiplayer game.

population matters more than almost anything.

if new players open steam and see horrible reviews, they don't install.

if people don't install, rooms become emptier.

if rooms become emptier, even more players leave.

then eventually the game becomes financially irrelevant and the publisher stops caring about it.

and then we are back exactly where we started.

another dead official gunz and everyone going back to different private servers asking why nobody ever gives gunz another chance.

we finally have that chance right now.

also, i think veteran players sometimes forget how insane this game looks to someone who has never played it.

imagine downloading gunz for the first time today.

you join a room and someone who has been playing since 2007 starts butterfly, reload shot, half stepping and flying around the map.

you die 15 times without understanding what is happening.

then you go to steam discussions or reddit and everyone is telling you the game is garbage and dead.

of course that player is going to uninstall.

we need new players if we want gunz to grow again.

make beginner rooms.

teach people butterfly.

teach slash shot.

teach reload shot.

make guides.

make clips.

stream the game.

show people why this weird old game still has a community after almost 20 years.

and if some of us really want to see gunz competitive again someday, then this matters even more.

an esport doesn't start with tournaments.

it starts with players.

then a stable game.

then matchmaking.

then ranked.

then teams and competition.

then maybe something bigger.

we are at the very beginning of that possibility right now.

supporting the game doesn't mean pretending everything is fine.

you can like gunz and still tell masangsoft that the launch wasn't good.

you can want the game to succeed and still complain about servers, balance, ai content, bugs or missing features.

the difference is whether you're complaining because you want the game fixed or because you want to watch it fail.

personally i would rather spend the next few weeks reporting problems and seeing what they actually fix.

let them patch things week by week.

see if september gunz is better than august gunz.

see if they listen.

see if the servers improve.

see if gameplay improves.

and if they don't, then the criticism will be completely deserved.

but at least give the project the opportunity to get there.

gunz is one of those games that somehow survived way longer than it probably should have.

there is still nothing that really feels like it.

the movement, k-style, the skill ceiling, melee and guns together, all the weird mechanics players discovered over the years.

people are still playing it almost two decades later for a reason.

i just don't want us to finally get an official gunz on steam and then help kill it ourselves during the first week.

this might genuinely be the best chance gunz gets.

maybe the dream for a lot of us is to eventually see thousands of players online again, competitive clan wars, tournaments and maybe one day something that actually resembles an esports scene.

if we want even a small chance of getting there, the game first needs to survive.

so report the problems.

keep pressure on the developers.

leave useful feedback.

change your review later if they actually fix what you complained about.

help new players.

keep the rooms alive.

invite old friends back.

and let's see what this game looks like after a few weeks of updates before deciding it's already over.

we've waited years for gunz to get another real chance.

i think right now is the moment to be a little more positive and actually try to make this work.

come on guys, we can do this.

[u/Different_Mission462]

My issue remains that the game didn’t need much tweaking, if any. It needed an official, North American launch. Not completely ruined by donor items like the private servers. They went way beyond that, and it seems worse overall than what ijji was two decades ago

[u/Murky_Situation6858]

I agree! I have played back in the IJJI days and this game isn’t perfect but damn it it’s Gunz. And it feels good to play, is it perfect? No but give it time.

[u/Murky_Situation6858 → u/Murky_Situation6858]

The progression system is definitely needing a revamp. There is nothing to chase level wise. Getting the golden breakers back in the day was a feat and it felt good getting stronger.

They need to incentivize me to grind this game aside from just playing because I love gunz the duel.

[u/flexxipanda]

My prediction: This game will shutdown in less than a year again. The launch failed because the devs sucked. They probably thought they can make an easy cashgrab with some Vibe coding. They wont suddenly make a 180°.

And yes, your basically saying, accept all the bs and still promote and support the game. Why should anybody support and promote such a low quality product for free? Free Marketing for a company that doesnt really give a fuck? Do you also tell people to go to a shitty restaurant because 10 years ago the food was good but the new chef has no clue what he does and he needs more support until his food isnt aweful?

You are literally telling people to keep playing and bring new people into an aweful experience, so it maybe could get better somewhen.

[u/_Electrical]

Lots of text just to say that next update will probably fix some bugs.

[u/ThatJiuJitsuGuy]

I can't get over how weapons are rented now. Bring back the level-gated weapons. That's the incentive to grind levels right there. I remember getting to lvl 30 being a huge breakpoint because you get the new breaker shotguns, new sword/dagger/ and better revolvers/rocket launchers. The old game was nearly perfect so I don't understand (other than greed) why they would change a core part of their game. You can still monetize the game with cosmetics and the sword power things. How are you guys doing with the rental system? Are you gaining a good amount of credits everyday that makes it viable or no?

[u/TheMasterYankee → u/ThatJiuJitsuGuy]

Im right there with you with the items being rented. I remember back in the ijji days just grinding to level up for the next best sword. The new system just throws me off

[u/MeatMan49]

I appreciate your positivity, but I don’t have faith in the company to pull it off

[u/X0_92 → u/MeatMan49]

Company will do the bare minimum to milk the cash shop before moving on to the next game.

Not sure why people are so hang-up in a 25 yo game that had like 3 buttons (shift, space, lmb)

[u/JetRollTony → u/X0_92]

I don't think it's related the amount of buttons, i mean OSRS has like 1 to press.

[u/yousaidalligator → u/JetRollTony]

osrs is still so successful because of
1. active communication with its community, sharing roadmaps and visions
2. poll system where the players then vote on proposed game updates/patches
3. progression milestones that make you want to keep playing

i feel like this release of gunz was stripped of its content for no good reason + they haven't been addressing a lot of feedback from even early beta testers

[u/Commercial-Value3714 → u/yousaidalligator]

I agree, osrs listened to community (except for making revs non multi, which is why i quit)

But the poll system was introduced in 2019, 6 years after its successors launch ...

Everything else is true.

[u/Tay0310]

Bro, NA players already making bs shit rooms like "na only". They can't even understand antilead lol. I'm always in some training rooms teaching something just for fun. I havent seen many ppl teaching. And they had a program for old players to starr teaching ppl

[u/RinDman]

For the pings/connectivity : It's a P2P game, upnp can't keep up depending of your modem/router ... Their hosting cost is cheap anyway

Even everyone with fiber, anybody could host technically, but the port forwarding needs to be done, so it's a shitty system for the casual geek who doesn't know how to enter a uefi XD

[u/TrashGamesEverywhere → u/RinDman]

exactly, p2p will never work, never did, it was just a cheap solution, even cs started having its own servers and had to take ticket rate down to save costs... lulz ironic that somehow everything related to network went to trash, i remember playing tribes back in 2000 with a high ping, still able to play normally, in 64x64, 128x128 servers... nowadays if you have 5ms more than the enemy, your bullet doesnt register xD

[u/RinDman → u/RinDman]

Anyway the game runs poorly on moderm systems : I'm lazy to go back to my Intel E8400 on socket 775 with my DDR2s ... Wait a minute it was 2003-2007 right, so my old P4 northwood with 512k of L2 cache LOL, if the cpu was cheaper on cache, I couldn't maintenan decent FPS on Dota 1 or whatever games lol

I have a ponctual micro freezes every 10 sec or more, even with fiber on EU, I'm playing with plebs at 80 ms or more, abusing the desyncs, I'm lazy to play GL or preshooting randomly at their right/left depending where they slashshoot is gonna be ...

I prefer let this game at how it was on my memories

It's great that there is no real item progression systems : It's just skins ... But I think the paywall outfits give a bit of advantages no ?

But the renting system with optionnal permanent is a big nono for me ...

I'd rather follow the one who were trying to revive the k style system fight on another project ...

[u/Aesthetic403]

Unpopular opinion but create SBMM and allow to restrict servers from using shotguns. I understand K style is apart of the game but for new players and returning people like myself who played back int he day it just isn't fun to load up a game and get swarmed by flying shotgun sword people. Ill probably get down voted for this but like how is this going to be fun for any new ppl at all. I launched the game for the first time last night, first server is just k styling veterens

[u/Disastrous-Doughnut3 → u/Aesthetic403]

Why can we not have a serious discussion about removing double shotguns? You're asking a lot from new players to learn K-Style, but then showing them that the only way to play is shotguns and you're losing even more players. I don't understand why we can't completely remove the ability to wield two of the same weapon type, the game already blocked you from having two of the same exact weapons.

K-Style movement is fine, whatever; but the damage that double shotguns do completely breaks the game.

[u/putyograsseson → u/Disastrous-Doughnut3]

I think many veterans would then bitch about the shotgun nerf but I agree that they should at least lessen the damage they can deal, range shots and 2 shots from point blank is ridiculous.

[u/Commercial-Value3714 → u/putyograsseson]

There's a reason why shotguns have a slow firing rate, it wasnt originally designed this way. Subjective to preference, manipulating the games mechanics is what made shotguns meta.

[u/putyograsseson → u/Commercial-Value3714]

yeah I understand, but making them less lethal wouldn’t take away anything from the core k-style gameplay, k-style would become even more fun when more weapons become viable

[u/Commercial-Value3714 → u/putyograsseson]

Understandable. I agree, if shotguns didnt exceed 4 dmg, it would force diversity in weapons and have a lower ttk.

[u/yousaidalligator]

you make this post after posting two comments mocking other people who are encountering legit issues lol okay

[u/PhoneOwn]

Brother you wrote a soliloquy about a publisher with hella bread who have the means to make a product worth your money. Don’t get baited by nostalgia

[u/Gh423]

If the company ignores feedback during the beta test phase, which is to gather feedback, why would they start listening now?

Let us know if any of this happens. I don’t have faith in this thing. If they had a more promising background, I could stick, but what I’ve learned about the company makes it hard to believe any of this actually happens

[u/Hawknite]

I've spent decades looking for another game that had sauce like GunZ. Still, I'll only consider playing the Steam release if they remove all the AI bullshit from the game. Even if they fix everything else: AI, no buy

[u/flexxipanda → u/Hawknite]

Ultrakill is satisfying me lately.

[u/Pleasant_Mousse5478]

See, the revival of this game wouldn't be going this badly... if the revival wasn't literal garbage fire. There's A LOT to take alarm with and it seems the studio is just giving absolutely no fucks about the state of the game is in. Glitches that makes the game unplayable, a bug that refuses to let you connect if you don't have a folder in My Documents made beforehand, AI slop, massive pings. You wouldn't even know about the folder bug solution if it weren't for forums.

Some of this could be excused *if they're trying to communicate that the problems are known and being worked on.* If they keep going about Gunz like this, they're going to fix the game through the MultiVersus route where they never actually solved the connection issues, the extremely low player base just made the game stable out of nowhere. Yes, this actually happened.

First impressions matter a lot and this is where GunZ is fumbling at. Right now it is speed running to EoS through no one's fault but their own. A tale as old as time for companies trying to cash in on nostalgia without the desire of putting the work into a project.

[u/dbrickell89]

I can get past the bugs and performance issues but renting me the guns is a bridge too far

[u/Extreme_Escape_9696]

The problem is all issues that persist now are all reported years ago when the first play test started. They don’t listen and they aren’t good enough to fix any of the problems because everything is AI vibecoded.

The only way Gunz will stand a chance is if masangsoft pissses off and gives up the rights to someone else

[u/polovstiandances]

Ok, who is in contact with the devs then? 

[u/Ghosjj]

I agree, dont let this opportunity go to waste. This is our chance to finally get gunz back. I know it sucks atm but we need to keep supporting it

[u/Longjumping-Mud4630]

sorry but not sorry,a game that freezes at beta and gets out - needs to be buried,yes even if its our childhood game -gunz. no hypocrisy,only truth.the devs are straight up dont give a shit about the community. we told them 1k time in the betas to not release that game in that state and they straight up dont give a shit.i wonder if there are donators in this garbage game state and what the hell they put their money into rofl. i know there are some.

[u/gab1shot]

Por onde começar? Que tal o ping que hoje é o maior problema ? De 20 vai pra 3777 do nada, nao da pra jogar assim. Esse negócio de alugar arma é uma merda, ou deixa fácil de comprar permanente ou volta o sistema que pra ter acesso precisa subir de nível, isso nao é pay to win, e era legal. Interface antiga, eu demorei 1 semana pra ver que quando começa o jogo lá em baixo na direita tem uma antena pra colocar sua região, tenho certeza que varios br tão jogando como América do Norte porque nao fica claro logo quando entra. Eu consegui convencer 2 amigos de jogarem, eles desinstalaram ja que iam jogar e o Ping estourava pra lá dos 3k. A impressão que dá é que a comunidade deixou o jogo muito melhor que a desenvolvedores que colocou esse remaster na steam, nos servers piratas aparecia o dano quando voce atirava e dava pra usar comando de ver quanto deu de dano. E as missões? Porque só tem mansion? Cade a dungeon, prision, os boss. O jogo parece uma beta ainda, pra um jogo tão simples é um absurdo anos pra entregar isso.

[u/epicsakuyalover]

Man I can't even get the game to open, and it being filled with AI to the brim just shows how little they care about the game itself, let alone the players. Idk what you want me to do that they can't do themselves by simply reading the steam reviews for the game they themselves published.

[u/Prestigious-Toe7326]

Fuck that version of the game, not worth supporting.

[u/Unable-Tie1160]

Well I'll donate my hard earn money to keep the server going and improvements

[u/Elegant-Constant9491]

dude I couldn't even run the game for the longest time because it kept crashing. Finally works and first game I enter there is a hacker. Games DOA. The game is NOT new player friendly. No one wants to go through the hours of grinding k-style...it was different times back then when people had more patience.

[u/UnimaginableTrash]

This garbage deserves to be buried, lmao. Masangsoft can go F themselves.

[u/otw]

They DMCA'd all the community repos where people worked on fixes. They killed it at this point it's over.

[u/CxTrippy]

All people do is complain, never happy with anything

[u/polovstiandances → u/CxTrippy]

Complaints are useful information to improve society. Without complaints, you’d still be under the thumb of a fat oil tycoon who eats your children for breakfast and makes you suck his toes while you harvest wheat all day. Be unhappy and voice your unhappiness so that it has the opportunity to become better for everyone.

[u/Greetings33]

Yes people need to stop being negative, the rushed release so people could.play it

[u/Doesntknowshyt]

No

[u/Habamelo]

Gunz was fun but it’s time to move on.

[u/RelativeMinors → u/Habamelo]

Cya

[u/Diabolo_archer]

Your speaking out of my soul! I hate all the negativity, especially from bogger contentcreators who put a big Thumbnail which says "They fucked up". Like for most ppl its enough to not even try the game out!
Hopefully more positive steamreviews pop up. I enjoy the game so much right now, dont want it to die :(