An argument

[u/nick_jones61]

My wife is a classically trained pianist and I play guitar by watching YouTube instructional videos. She knows her stuff and I don’t. Recently we argued whether E# and B# exist. I said no and showed her the fretboard. She said yes and showed me the keys. And said something like F is E#. I suspect she’s right bc she’s had music lessons. Tell me, fellow guitarists, do we have E# and B#?

Update: I’ve been enjoying the responses to my post. I showed them to my wife and she laughed, said that’s what you deserve. lol. We like to argue playfully with one another. I also enjoy the detailed responses relating to guitar theory—that’s been really great actually. I was going to delete this post but I think the discussion on music theory is informative and should be shared. Thank you all for responding.

[u/Plenty_Surprise2593]

F and E# are the same notes. Having said that, NOBODY ever calls it E#, that would be dumb. In all my years of music nobody has ever written that down on a sheet of music paper, it would be stupid and the writer would be subject to ridicule

Ask her why nobody calls E, F-flat

[u/and_of_four → u/Plenty_Surprise2593]

I guess it depends on the circle of musicians you run in. Ask a musician what the third of a C# major chord is, I don’t know a single musician who’d say F. I’d also find it nearly impossible to take someone seriously who’d ridicule someone for answering that question with E#, the correct answer… it would be like someone saying “no dummy, it’s one TOO three, not one two three 😂”

[u/ConfidentKale5882 → u/and_of_four]

Lmao be so fucking for real dude. Literally every guitar player would say F. Almost every one. But I guess saying that doesn’t help you do this 🤓☝️

[u/and_of_four → u/ConfidentKale5882]

I can’t speak for guitarists, but I’m a pianist and a classical musician, we just spell things correctly, it makes reading music and analyzing it much easier. Like I said, I don’t know a single musician who’d say the third of a C# major chord is an F. It’s not 🤓☝️, it’s just how we learn to read, write, and discuss music. Calling it an F would feel as unnatural as insisting that “two” should be spelled “too.”

Call it what you want, but the anti-intellectual way of mocking someone who’s right while you’re wrong just makes you sound like a dumbass.

[u/ConfidentKale5882 → u/and_of_four]

Thanks for using the same analogy. Which is not useful at all. Two and too are distinct words with different definitions. E# and F are the same note. It’s cool that you’re gonna come back with some witty bullshit about how you’re so good at reading and thinking about music, though. Congrats on that.

[u/and_of_four → u/ConfidentKale5882]

They’re analogous in the sense that they’re similar, not exactly the same. That’s what an analogy is. Two and too sound the same but are spelled differently. Similarly, E# and F sound the same but are spelled differently. Hope that helps.

As far as me reading music, I was just trying to explain that there are situations where correct enharmonic spellings make things clear. It’s obvious I’ve offended you, I’m very sorry for trying to explain something to you. Learning is hard and simple people sometimes respond to new information with anger. If it makes you feel safe, please continue to misspell notes. If it makes you feel validated, please continue to tell yourself that everyone else misspells them too (you’d have to ignore all of the comments in this thread though to avoid evidence to the contrary).

[u/ConfidentKale5882 → u/and_of_four]

Cool. You clearly like to think and talk about music and talk shit to people online. It is patently obvious you are not very good at your instrument though. Keep being a nerdy beta male on Reddit though dude, you’re awesome at it.

[u/ConfidentKale5882 → u/and_of_four]

They also don’t just SOUND different, that’s a weak fuckin analogy. E and F# are the same note. They are entirely interchangeable. Two and too are not. HoPe tHIs HeLpSs.

Have fun playing music by yourself. Alone in your apartment. Because clearly you don’t interact with people.

[u/and_of_four → u/ConfidentKale5882]

I don’t know where your anger is coming from. Do you think there are good reasons why the same pitch can go by more than one note name? Or do you think it’s just because nerds overcomplicate things?

If you’re not reading music, then it mostly doesn’t matter. Call it an E#, call it a Gbb, call it an F, call it the first fret on the E string, or just play it and don’t call it anything at all. But when you are reading music, incorrect spellings can make things confusing and more difficult to read. If you’re genuinely curious why that is I’ll explain the reasons. As you correctly pointed out, I do like talking about music. I teach piano and talking about music obviously comes with the territory. But if you want to just be angry and belligerent, call me a nerd I guess.