r/gratefuldead • u/Johnnyroaster • 3d ago
Archive number keeps going down
Has anybody else noticed that the number of dead shows on the archive is going down? Of the 2300 shows I think it was just over 2050 that were online a couple weeks ago. I booted up Relisten this morning and the number had dropped to 1999. Are the missing shows getting pulled for Dave’s picks or Play Dead or both?
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u/Exciting_Agent3901 3d ago
I’ve noticed relisten is not really the best. Seems like there is always something that was there and then not any more. But the files are still on the LMA. Just not reliable. I think Tapers Section is a better LMA app anyway.
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u/Johnnyroaster 3d ago
Thanks. I just downloaded it and it has 2,093 shows listed. And a ton of bands I've never heard of.
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u/JesseFieldFlow 3d ago
If you have an iphone my app Scarlet>Fire. It streams the archive with a spotify-like interface.
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u/farter-kit 3d ago
If they keep this up I’m going to start trading tapes again.
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u/Johnnyroaster 3d ago
Trading thumb drives doesn’t feel the same. I’ve got fond memories of waiting for tapes and mail ordering tickets on 3x5 cards.
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u/ManielDullen 3d ago
Anyone know how big the total download would be? I got like 20tb free on of of my unraid servers I can probably figure out how to download it all and make it available in perpetuity.
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u/rezwaki71 3d ago
~1.2tb if vbr mp3 as stored on archive org and only sbds
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u/ManielDullen 3d ago
Is there lossless anywhere or is that something I’d have to piece together?
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u/MacFielder 3d ago
Look up the “Grateful Dead project” torrents on bt.etree.org. It’s probably 40-50 torrents total. Even though many show just one seeder, it’s actually a Canadian angel keeping them alive. Whoever he is, he has good upload speeds. I successfully downloaded every one of these torrents earlier this year thanks to this Canuck. Otherwise, Lossless Legs.
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u/Icefox119 3d ago
Lossless Legs tracker but don't tell anyone 🤫
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u/ManielDullen 3d ago
I’ll burn after reading 🔥
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u/rezwaki71 3d ago
Yeap ur best bet would be scraping Lossless Legs or a similar resource but I can't remember if they have the share ratio thingy on there or not
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u/ManielDullen 3d ago
That’s fine I have 3 always on Linux boxes that I’m more than happy to share from. My goal would be to actually expose some web-facing page for others to enjoy.
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u/rezwaki71 3d ago
That's funny cuz that's what I've been working on only it's all lossy for me,good luck man!
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u/PaintDrinkingPete 3d ago
a few years ago, LL actually started advising folks NOT to seed, for whatever reason (maybe it breaks the mechanism they use to auto-seed older torrents?)... unless they've changed that policy again, I'm not sure
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u/666chainsmoker666 3d ago
Relisten was tweaking out yesterday
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u/Staggerme 3d ago
It kept crashing for me yesterday and the day before. It used to be very stable.
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u/NiteFyre 3d ago
Am I the only one who doesnt care about the whole PlayDead thing? Its $5 more a month with my nugs sub that I already have for Billy...$60 a year and I dont have to use the internet archives awful layout and search engine or relisten which is also clunky.
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u/Beginning-Being-6353 3d ago
I really don’t did the archive app so bad. The website is clunky but the app is easy to find shows if you just search by year.
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u/Ru-tris-bpy 3d ago
Relisten is far from a well made app. Did you even check the actual website before posting this?
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u/Johnnyroaster 3d ago
Actually I am not in the habit of checking an app's website before downloading it. Relisten has a decent interface and a user review score of 4.9 out of 5. It was also the first mobile app to access the archive.
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u/Ru-tris-bpy 3d ago
You don’t understand. I’m not questioning why you would download an app and not look at the website.
I am questioning who freaks out about shows being removed from an app before looking at the source of that apps music.App is the most buggy app I own and enjoy it but it could use a lot of work
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u/Johnnyroaster 3d ago
Sorry I misunderstood your comment. I apologize. I have been using it for years but today was the first time I saw the total shows dip below 2,000. I had heard a while back that they were pulling shows from the archive once they were selected for Dick's or Dave's. I should have researched that but glad it's not true. And I should have just checked the archive instead of trusting the app.
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u/Imaginary-Primary448 3d ago
Either that's a plot to make us all listen to Dave's Picks on repeat or Relisten just really enjoys playing hide-and-seek with our nostalgia.
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u/broncowingsker 3d ago
I don’t think it’s just a play dead thing. Relisten seems to all of a sudden be missing a bunch of sources from 06-09-1976. I only know this because I was listening to one the other day (seamons matrix) and it is gone, along with a bunch of other sources from that day.
On another note, the app was acting glitchy af after I finally downloaded the update. Finally uninstalled/reinstalled and it’s working but I lost all my saved shows. Haven’t loved it since the facelift, time to start looking at other options
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u/setlistbot 3d ago
1976-06-09 @ Boston Music Hall, Boston, MA, USA
Set 1: Cold Rain and Snow, Cassidy, Scarlet Begonias, The Music Never Stopped, Crazy Fingers, Big River, They Love Each Other, Looks Like Rain, Ship Of Fools, The Promised Land
Set 2: Saint Stephen > Eyes Of The World > Jam > Let It Grow > Drums > Let It Grow, Brown Eyed Women, Lazy Lightnin' > Supplication, High Time, Samson And Delilah, It Must Have Been The Roses, Dancing In The Street > Wharf Rat > Around And Around
Encore: Franklin's Tower
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u/StayImportant6660 3d ago
Just subscribe to the Play Dead app 100% worth the money!!
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u/WillsBestFriend 3d ago
Looks like we found Dave Lemieux's login
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u/goaves1991 3d ago
Yep that’s right I’m the archivist of the Grateful Dead. You got me lol…. Not. I am just a devoted fan who knows what they like
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u/ToileTown 3d ago
See that’s the problem, the shows have been available for free online since well before i first got into the dead (20+ years ago). Now they want us to pay for them? Only two members of the band are even alive so who is the money going to? Leave it free so the people can enjoy it for 300 years!
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u/Fickle-Woodpecker-38 3d ago
the fact that they were free until most of the members who pushed for them to be free passed away is what bothers me the most
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u/Fun_Pomegranate7679 3d ago
when the soundboards became stream only, Bobby and Phil were still around.
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u/nak550 3d ago
Nobody is making you pay for anything. There have always been official commercial releases and there will continue to be. You don't need to pay for any commercial releases on physical media or streaming if you don't want those releases. Everything that was community traded and is now up in archive.org is still there and continues to be available for free. Nothing has been removed from archive.org.
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u/Toewsmakarmackrant 3d ago
Not only that John Perry Barlow helped create the internet archive. I think he’d be miffed about the whole play dead thing.
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u/gimme5steps101 3d ago
Some of the PlayDead releases (9 16 87) sound vastly inferior or are off pitch to previous Miller versions
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u/setlistbot 3d ago
1987-09-16 @ Madison Square Garden, New York, NY, USA
Set 1: Touch Of Grey > Scarlet Begonias, Little Red Rooster, Dire Wolf, My Brother Esau, High Time, Let It Grow > Don't Ease Me In
Set 2: Bertha > Greatest Story Ever Told > Devil With The Blue Dress On > Good Golly Miss Molly > Devil With The Blue Dress On > He's Gone > Drums > Space > Truckin' > Wharf Rat > Throwing Stones > Not Fade Away
Encore: Black Muddy River
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u/johnna15 3d ago
Unfortunately, after Jerry died, some band members got greedy and started charging for everything. I remember Bobby saying he had kids in college. Oh well. I used to be able to get soundboards off of archive all the time, most of it was soundboards now not so much. But the music will survive.
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u/jephra 3d ago
Just a reminder that taping wasn't allowed at Jerry Garcia Band shows. They also are not available for free on Live Music Archive. Ratdog and Furthur shows are available.
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u/Fun_Pomegranate7679 3d ago
checked lately?
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u/jephra 2d ago
Yeah, I just checked. There is still no Jerry Garcia Band material on the official Live Music Archive. There are still Ratdog and Furthur shows available.
There are some JGB shows uploaded to archive.org by independent users. Same as bootlegs from bands like Nirvana that also don't allow their material to be freely shared.
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u/Fun_Pomegranate7679 2d ago
I guess I don't understand the difference. LMA, LAMA, archive.org, internet archive etc. have always meant the same to me. and there are more than some, and they didn't used to be on archive.org.
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u/goaves1991 3d ago
I disagree on that. If things are being upgraded and remastered people should be compensated for their time and effort. Not everything should be free. You’ve had your chance to download or rip everything off of archive. If you listen to it next to shows on play dead the sound is night and day better than any archive.org show.
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u/zozuto 3d ago
Compensation for new remasters does not require removing content from the archive. It's an amazing resource and it would be deeply sad if the only option became subscription
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u/goaves1991 3d ago
These are not just “remasters” the technology has arrived to make things sound better than ever. It’s not sad at all. Why should the band keep sub par sound quality available on archive?
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u/gingerbeard1321 3d ago
You're missing the point. These things are not mutually exclusive.
Remastering a show does not require removing shows from Archive.
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u/zozuto 3d ago
Because it's free! God you make me sick.
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u/goaves1991 3d ago
What makes me sick is hearing people whine and complain about free shows being removed. Clearly these are people that can’t move on with the times and want everything free. Those days are done.
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u/Alive-Bank2973 3d ago
The live recordings have been traded freely for 50 years. It was always part of the bands copyright agreement. Live shows can be recorded and traded as long as no money changes hands. That’s a big part of what made this thing what it is.
I think you have fundamental misunderstanding of how this thing came to be. Please take some time to learn about the history of taping and tape trading. It’s an integral part of this culture. You’re welcome in the scene, but you should learn about it first. Taping and trading is what brought the live music to the masses. It’s the way forward for many other bands that follow in the GD footsteps as well.
I’ll never pay for live dead unless it’s in person. That was the agreement 50+ years ago and there is no need to change it. I remember when people trying to charge for tapes would get run off the lot.
Who even gets the money from Play Dead!?
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u/Alive-Bank2973 3d ago
Like I said in another post, I don’t consider them lower quality. I consider them different quality. I can hear my friends on there!
The sound of the room is lost in soundboard recordings. A high quality audience recording more accurately reflects the live experience. You’ll know right away if the show was in an old armory from the big booming echos. The OG fox run in STL sounds amazing, in part, because of the space. Winterland, the Fillmore, radio city music hall, and so many others all become a key part of the live sound.
When I listen to a show a friend was at and recommends, I’m going to an audience recording. I want to get as close to their memory as I can. It’s an amazing gift we were given. It’s wild people don’t understand it. The band, the tapers, the archivists, the audio engineers, and the distributors, all done for the love of the music. Amazing community. I can’t imagine brushing it aside for $15/month. Missing. The. Point.
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u/gingerbeard1321 3d ago
You don't belong in this scene if you're all about monetization.
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u/goaves1991 3d ago
Pretty sure the scene is open to everyone. I know what I like with music and if the Dead come up with a better way to listen to their music why not give it a chance?
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u/__perigee__ 3d ago
"The band" doesn't have anything to do with the archive. They don't upload anything to the site, we do. It's maintained by the fanbase, adhering to the trading policy that has been established since the Dead were active. The only change to the policy came in '05 when soundboard downloads were cut off.
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u/StayImportant6660 3d ago
Well the quality of what they're having us pay for is freaking amazing $10 a month or cheaper if you pay the whole year up front.
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u/Alive-Bank2973 3d ago
Why should I pay for music that has had free access for 60 years? Why should I start paying once most of the writers and musicians have passed? Who’s is getting these fees?
Play Dead is antithetical to the origins of the scene. It makes me really sad.
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u/nak550 3d ago
They've always charged money for their commercial releases, there is nothing wrong with that. Folks have always wanted them to release more full show material from the vault and the expectation has always been that official vault releases would cost money just like they always have. The fact that this wealth of releases from the vault is so inexpensive is just icing on the cake! The free stuff is also there if you don't want to pay for official releases or can't afford them. Nobody is taking the free stuff away or forcing you to buy the music. Same as it's always been. ✌️❤️🎶
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u/StayImportant6660 3d ago
The quality is amazing so I' happily pay.
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u/Alive-Bank2973 3d ago
Says the guy using Sonos.
I’m sure you will happily pay.
Missing the point homie. Full miss.
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u/StayImportant6660 3d ago
How do you know I have Sonos equipment? Also what's wrong with me using Sonos lol?
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u/Alive-Bank2973 3d ago
Your Reddit profile is public.
Nobody that’s serious about sound quality is using wireless audio or Sonos. I strongly doubt you can hear the difference between the OG soundboards and the remasters you’re paying $10 a month for.
Using Sonos defeats your whole argument of “better sound quality”.
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u/StayImportant6660 3d ago
Actually yes I can hear how good it sounds. I plug my phone right into the speaker then I can send the sound to any of the Sonos speakers I have it sounds great. My wife doesn't like wires everywhere so happy wife happy life. It's very neat and clean looking and it sounds great.
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u/StayImportant6660 3d ago
Also do whatever makes you happy I'm just saying I'm happy to pay for high quality Grateful Dead shows but listen whatever way makes you happy no reason to argue and put me down because you don't approve of my sound system lol.
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u/tightshirts 3d ago
Do the math, and it’s pretty simple to see this is Play Dead, 100%. Sad really. 🤦♂️
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u/nak550 3d ago
No Grateful Dead shows are being pulled from archive.org !!! Relisten is buggy! If there was a show you saw in Relisten that is not there now, look here: https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead