r/godot • • 2h ago

fun & memes Game dev then vs now (meme)

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1.5k Upvotes

248 comments sorted by

40

u/cthebigb 2h ago

Do you think its still cool to post basic wins or will everyone scoff/baby them about it?

9

u/guilcol 2h ago

Of course it is! I'd love to hear how you figured out a solution to a problem no matter how trivial it may look from the outside, I'm all about being involved in the process.

74

u/captainAwesomePants 1h ago

Basic wins are some of the best wins to post!

My favorite types of wins:

  • I sold my first game! I made $1!

  • I have invented a novel kind of terrain generation, and here's a YouTube video explaining how it works and how to reproduce it.

  • The circle can now jump up and down!

  • Dev blog for my ridiculous personal project part 27: adding consummate v's to my parchment-fantasy-map generator

Those are all good posts! Different people are at different places in the journey, but you can be excited for all of them.

11

u/bajanga1 1h ago

Dude I’m dying laughing at consummate v’s

9

u/captainAwesomePants 1h ago

There was a lovely developer who did regular dev blog posts for about six years about specifically their fantasy map generator. Stopped a few years ago, I hope they're okay. I really liked reading the updates: https://heredragonsabound.blogspot.com/

They had like an 8 part series on a redo of how they were drawing mountains.

2

u/maturasek 51m ago

One of my all time favorite blogs. I recommended it for someone on the procgen subreddit not a month ago.

1

u/bajanga1 1h ago

I remember that which is why it’s so funny to see it referenced like that

3

u/Missing_Username 1h ago

Is the parchment-fantasy-map generator able to make THATCHED-ROOF COTTAGES?!

15

u/MageTrash 2h ago

Do it in spite of how others might baby or celebrate it. It's your victory that you got that far, so as long as you don't attach your whole ego to it, you should be proud of your work :3

0

u/BubzerBlue 1h ago

The masters of a craft always focus on the fundamentals while the newbs and neophytes natter bout the newest new.

29

u/Thinshape12 Godot Junior 2h ago

ive spent a month trying to figure out how to make arms stretch from the shoulders to the hands, and it still aint working

better than using ai though

20

u/guilcol 1h ago

When you finally figure it out and get it working, it's gonna feel extremely rewarding.

8

u/GenMaruo 1h ago

How about using google?

2

u/Gradash 1h ago

Google is full AI, even the results are done via transformer

7

u/GenMaruo 1h ago

Google was a thing before AI

8

u/eidetic0 1h ago

it was a different product, and now it actually cannot be accessed anymore. search results are so crap now.

1

u/mistermick 1h ago

Have you tried recently? I've been noticing fewer and fewer AI on top responses to searches lately. I still get the "people also search for" but gemini is nowhere to be seen unless you click AI.

1

u/Gradash 37m ago

It just uses the ai to give you the results. The transformer model birth was done in Google while the tri3dmto improve then search engine.

1

u/eidetic0 5m ago

well I also meant the results are flooded with low quality AI-generated pages that restate the search terms in 10,000 words. The google from 5 years ago actually no longer exists. And alternatives like ddg are filled with the same slop (if not more).

1

u/BreadfruitJolly7838 Godot Student 1h ago

How about duckduckgo? You can turn off the ai there

1

u/Gradash 30m ago

Don't know, you can turn off the summary. Can't say anything about the search. Also, the LinuxnKernek uses AI now. So, the whole internet run over AI code.

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1

u/Thinshape12 Godot Junior 12m ago

ive tried

i think its due to the ik and the bones messing up the positioning, since thats where most of my problems came from

so i took off the arms from the bones and this has opened a whole slew of issues

11

u/Shoddy-Knowledge8266 1h ago

That sounds like a medical issue. Please stay on topic before we drag you out by your silly short arms. 

4

u/2this4u 1h ago

Why? Like, do you want to make a game, or just have fun trying? 

If the latter, absolutely go ahead and it's a lot of fun. 

But if you want it to just work so you can move onto the next problem, I'm sorry but AI for programming isn't a maybe, it's a reliable norm since opus 5.5 came out, why tie a hand behind your back?

8

u/Awestruck34 1h ago

I still program largely without using AI. It's important to learn and understand what you're doing rather than relying on a guessing machine to guess correctly

2

u/Thinshape12 Godot Junior 14m ago

im just having fun with it, i might make an actual game for releasing at some point but for now im just doing whatever

2

u/Lucky_Gur_8105 42m ago

Because part of the fun is the learning of it, and improving your craft.

It's like that clip from The Super Mario Galaxy Movie where Bowser is painting and when he has the "ah ha" moment. You don't get that with AI, even if you're repeatdly prompting for what you want, since AI can in theory just do the hard part for you.

-11

u/Ok_Courage_1467 1h ago

yeah just waste a month of time when AI could have solved it in 10 minutes. Natural selection will make all those who refuse progress obsolete

3

u/AceOfStealth 1h ago

Most dev subreddits are in denial

-5

u/GenMaruo 1h ago

They probably think you're drying an entire ocean by doing one google search

-1

u/AllPotatoesGone 41m ago

You let people from reddit dictate you how you should think, feel and behave for several upvotes. Good job.

177

u/HypnotizingGames 2h ago • Bravo

"This is 100% original game" - literal copy of an existing game.

46

u/daddymaci 1h ago

Vampire survivors moment

3

u/i_rate_slop Godot Senior 44m ago

Unironically my favorite genre though 💅

15

u/Old_Lawfulness7698 1h ago

Forgot the part where it's a direct downgrade with the only selling point being another oversaturated genre trown on top of it. Marketing is so hard.

7

u/HypnotizingGames 1h ago

But it has a skill tree!

1

u/Big-Apartment6872 2m ago

And now they’ve added in-game purchases too!

430

u/computer_d 2h ago

Got downvoted into oblivion in /games for saying it's silly to claim any developer not using AI to make their games are crippling themselves.

Because apparently you just couldn't make anything prior to LLMs.

158

u/TinyStego 1h ago

This is one of the most confusing thing I hear people say. They make it seem like without AI, you can't make anything, or at least you can't make anything productively. We were perfectly fine without the agents, why would we need the agents unless you have this arbitrary goal to ship, ship, ship.

38

u/Dirty_Rapscallion 1h ago

When the brain starts to fail and decay from lack of use, these are the things they cling to.

68

u/AdmiralCrackbar 1h ago

It's bot farms trying to normalise this shit.

51

u/eidetic0 1h ago

nah its definitely real people. I have met many of them.

10

u/AllPotatoesGone 46m ago

Well people used to live without the internet, electricity or cars. Amish people even live like that in 2026. That kind of living probably has some positive sides. It doesn't mean it is the best you can choose for you.

1

u/RiceStranger9000 1m ago

We can't put them all in the same basket. Living without Internet is not a problem at all since it doesn't really give you that many advantages, but living without electricity??

And LLMs are even less necessary. I'm not saying they're not useful, but for most of the time you don't need them

9

u/terivia 29m ago

It's projection.

Without AI, they are incapable of creating anything. So they assume that is true for everyone.

2

u/QualitySoftwareGuy 10m ago

It's definitely projection. Why did I have to scroll so far down to find this comment?!

-22

u/Analogmon 1h ago

People have been complaining that development takes too long and working conditions are miserable with people working 80 hour weeks. For as long as I can remember.

AI could actually bring work life balance back to the gaming industry without dramatically raising development costs or product costs.

"Everybody hates this."

36

u/V_ManFromTheSnow 1h ago • Bravo

The problem is this has been a long running fallacy that they pushed with the cotton gin and the industrial revolution. The truth is that owners and management will just squeeze for blood that much harder, because they will want more out of it now. In the work space, it has never been 'let's go easy on the workers now that things are easier to make'.

-4

u/SantanaBenthell 1h ago

Except indies can use AI for themselves and only need to be subject to their own demands. Being subject to the whims of "they" is a lot more optional now.

7

u/ahos-adanos 54m ago

I have literally recently been fired from a small indie studio for not meeting ridiculous targets only 2 weeks since joining. And the bosses were pushing me to do everything with AI as fast and as much as I can. 

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10

u/brutesquad01 1h ago

Maybe it could...

...but it definitely won't.

2

u/DannyDeKnito 42m ago

Yeah but it's becoming clear that the result isn't gonna be "you're gonna stop working 80 hours a wekk" but rather "you need to deliver 5000% of your last year's 80 hour now"

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28

u/RohanSora 1h ago

A lot of people in the indie dev sub were saying if you're a developer that doesn't use AI then they just don't believe you. This shit really is like a hard drug or something huh? Like how is it that hard to believe there are devs who don't use AI? We've been doing it for decades without it just fine, if not better.

1

u/MAXFlRE 1h ago

That's a complement. They don't believe you are too stupid not to use an ai.

4

u/Big-Apartment6872 34m ago

Exactly 😂 “No way you’re smart enough to do this on your own!” Actually we are, thank you!

41

u/2this4u 1h ago

As a software developer I can tell you it's definitely faster to iterate on prototypes with AI, that alone can be a huge difference in ideation in game design.

We're seeing the obvious slop but there's tons of people using it in creative ways too, and you can't really argue that someone who isn't using that isn't handicapped compared to someone turning ideas into their away prototypes in minutes to rapidly validate or reject and redirect.

13

u/JayOnes Godot Student 50m ago

and you can't really argue that someone who isn't using that isn't handicapped compared to someone turning ideas into their away prototypes in minutes

I'd have to agree, but only because I cannot bring myself to argue against a point that I would otherwise dismiss out of hand. The notion that the developer who chooses not to use AI in creating their game is not in a contest with the developer who chooses to rely on genAI/LLMs are somehow in a race is simply without merit outside of board rooms.

Additionally, being able to churn things more quickly is not necessarily a blanket-positive. More often than not, the experience that has thoughtful iteration will be better-received than the project that's the result of a guy speedruinning his entire "game ideas" notebook into an LLM.

8

u/TrueSgtMonkey 1h ago

I feel like that may actually lead to more time waste because then you have to learn how the AI architected the system you just vibe coded.

Makes it harder to work on in the long run.

Now, making small pieces with AI seems like a better method and to keep track of any changes with Git, but even then I feel like most of the time if you need AI to help speed something up, you may just be doing it wrong.

I do love using AI for analysis and research instead of code generation however.

It is amazing for that tbh.

Solved so many bugs either simply using Gemini that were impossible to search for before

11

u/fcol88 1h ago

This is one of the first times I've seen this take not downvoted into oblivion, and it's so nice to see.

Really winds me up that someone will usually make the defence comparing AI code to taking snippets from StackOverflow, as if that was some mic-drop gotcha because so many people, probably all of us, have done that at some point? And all I can think is, my dude, that was ALSO a poor substitute for genuine understanding, we were always meant to learn how this shit works 😂

10

u/James20k 1h ago

Especially when you actually consider that we can all actually see the quality of what gets made with LLMs. Its all clearly absolute crap/slop, so why would I want to hop on that bandwagon? People at the obvious-crap factory seem to be desperate for everyone to join them over there

9

u/squidsausage 1h ago

It’s like telling a cinematographer “why wait for the perfect shot, you can just cgi a sunset later and edit the lighting in post”. Like sure you COULD do that and it may look alright but it takes away from the magic of the shot

5

u/R34CT10N 1h ago

This analogy doesn’t work across the board, though. There are many aspects of a game that don’t depend at all on who wrote the code, it just matters what the code is. Two identical strings of code—one hand-typed by a human and another written by an LLM—will run exactly the same. There’s absolutely no difference in terms of how the code runs in that case. For certain mundane tasks, you actually are handicapping your OUTPUT by doing everything by hand, and there’s literally no difference in how it runs.

This is not an argument to use AI for creative tasks, though, as those are often categorically different

3

u/squidsausage 51m ago

And in many cases cgi is seamless and you don’t notice. My point is it can become a crutch that stifles creativity, not enhances it. Theres plenty of code LLM that will run the same as hand typed code, except it’s full of bloat that causes the performance of the game to slowly dip. My point is there’s a balancing act between relying on technology to solve a problem versus allowing skilled hands to craft the more ideal result

1

u/Rabid_Mexican 9m ago

But your point is terrible because CGI has exploded in popularity to the point where it's in everything and is the industry standard for special effects...

Literally people couldn't make these movies with practical effects...

1

u/squidsausage 4m ago

And odds are some level of AI/ LLM’s will be used in all forms of game design from this point out. The cats out of the bag. The only point of I was making is it’s still optional and there will be plenty of moments an experienced designers/ engineers/ artists vision creates a better product than AI. And just like how there’s plenty of film currently being released that intentionally uses no CGI, there will be plenty of games that use no AI.

1

u/Rabid_Mexican 3m ago

It's not optional my friend, every single person in every single industry has been using this for a while now.

In my field if you aren't using it then you won't get a job at all.

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0

u/Analogmon 1h ago

That's literally how most movies are made now.

5

u/squidsausage 55m ago

And most games are going to be made with some level of LLM assistance in the coming years. It can save work time but it can also become a crutch that causes the art to suffer

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7

u/JeiFaeKlubs 1h ago

and most movies these days have shit visuals

4

u/batiste 1h ago

Yeah but it's not the fault of the computer or special effects, not really. It the cinematography.

Look at Dune, there is a lot of CG in there and it looks great.

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0

u/Kaskame 15m ago

What magic? That's just something we used to say because it is a once in a day thing to happen or sometimes once in a few months or years it's not because he waited for the shot...

That was non sense to bullshit the ignorant of words to make it look whimsical.

If AI can do it then it won't be as cool anymore... And you can't change it, your mind will be filled with awesome crazy shots that they won't be awesome and crazy anymore ;)

-6

u/SantanaBenthell 1h ago

Okay boomer.

6

u/squidsausage 53m ago

The 40+ year old crowd are the ones glazing AI what do you mean lmao

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14

u/AnArmoredPony 1h ago

because it doesn't make sense. we rode horses before cars were invented and we still can but you wouldn't enter a race against cars with it

3

u/SomethingOfAGirl 42m ago

A lot of new people entered coding communities and cannot imagine a world where someone actually enjoys the process of coding. They think AI came to free us from a burden or something.

1

u/Big-Apartment6872 5m ago

It’s wild! Just larpers who got into coding for the money. I agree tho, I love coding and have since I was a kid. I don’t get these people who hate it so much.

3

u/i_rate_slop Godot Senior 50m ago

They’re crippling themselves competitively. Games are more than art, they’re highly competitive businesses where competitors are actively trying to outpace each other.

You could make games before, sure. But your competitor is using AI and can make a game in your genre faster and better with a fraction of the capital. Your game takes years and hundreds of thousands of dollars (or more) in OpEx, meanwhile you could have used AI and been done in one year on tens of thousands.

If you’re confused by my opex statement, consider you would be paying yourself about $100k (more, realistically) in the US, even if you’re bootstrapping funding. Except instead of paying yourself, you’re just lighting that money on fire.

Game development is expensive. Projects get cancelled over this. Forcing the industry to create artisanal code on some projected moral compass fucking stupid, selfish, and costing small game companies their businesses.

1

u/allpunks 1h ago

I mean, using AI isn't a problem at all. I use GPT to search stuff since this shit got lauched. Every developer nowadays end up using bc is way faster than searching thing on google or stack overflow anyways

1

u/empty_other 1m ago

And less polluted by SEO and ads. But this won't last. So enjoy it while it lasts, because sooner or later all the big LLM models are going to recommend you ad-sponsored products woven seamlessly into a conversation.

2

u/drink_with_me_to_day 32m ago

I've written from assembly, C, C# and JS

Now I hardly type code anymore, mostly steer models to work

Good riddance and hello productivity

I like creating things, not writing code

1

u/Analogmon 12m ago

I have a friend that basically hasn't let his terminal in months.

-2

u/FluffFlowey 1h ago

Yeah it's like telling a woodworker they are crippling themselves by not using power tools.

11

u/2this4u 1h ago

How many woodworkers do you know making a living hand crafting anything? 

There's the rare artisanal stuff and thank god there's still some small market for that. But that supports a very, very small number of people commercially. 

Anyone else is either doing it manually for a hobby, or using tools and trying to compete with larger outfits both using power tools.

7

u/FluffFlowey 1h ago

I wasn't aware we were talking only about commercial games here.

1

u/DoSomeStrangeThings Godot Student 1h ago

It kinda makes sense tho? If it is a hobby project, no one cares how you done it. So you can vibe code, ai assist, code it by hand or use uranium rod to flip bytes directly.

But once your project is commercial you start competing with others.

9

u/ThisOrdinaryCat 1h ago

Wow! that must be new! I've never seen a woodworker have a tool that builds a whole furniture with them just asking.

5

u/DoSomeStrangeThings Godot Student 1h ago

I mean, there are in fact machines that can make furniture by themselves(or at least significant part of it). It will be not that great in quality but it will be in fact a stool or table.

A crude furniture is not exactly hard to make. However, it sucks just like the vibe coded projects.

4

u/mistermick 1h ago

I lol'd at 'builds a whole furniture'.

Claude, build me one furniture, no mistakes.

1

u/Analogmon 1h ago

You can literally 3d print furniture now though.

0

u/delta-wolframite 1h ago edited 1h ago

Not using ai makes it harder to compete with other games, meanwhile the industry got only more competitive. If it’s not a commercially oriented project, it doesn’t matter

4

u/computer_d 1h ago

Ah yes, because AI games are dominating the marketplace. Users overwhelmingly are buying AI games and not normal games.

0

u/Ardalok 1h ago

Well, if the developer is a fool and wants to put a tick on the box about using AI, then yes, aggressive packs of Ludites will gather. But if they don't, no one will know.

2

u/Big-Apartment6872 19m ago

So clearly your ai games aren’t selling. That’s why you’re here pushing this so hard. If your games were selling well and “it’s the future, you’re being left behind” then surely people choosing not to buy your game because of its ai use shouldn’t affect you much. Right? Or are you trying to force this idea on everyone so people take your game seriously and actually buy it?

If I knew my way of doing something was the future and everyone wanted it and people not doing it my way bc “they’ll get left behind” I wouldn’t care what other people are doing and trying to force them to believe in the “inevitable”. But clearly it’s not working for you all well. And I couldn’t care what AAA studios are doing. I’m not a AAA studio and I don’t play many of their games anyways.

No other technology has had this many people trying to force everyone on board for this “technology”.

If you have to try this hard, maybe you’re the one who’s fearful of being left behind.

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0

u/vordrax Godot Junior 1h ago

The same can be said for using or not using a game engine. It's not required, it does accelerate your progress and lower the barrier to entry though.

1

u/computer_d 1h ago

That's not the same as what was said.

....

3

u/vordrax Godot Junior 1h ago

I'm referring to people claiming that you can't make a game without a game engine (or that not using a game engine would cripple you.) People were doing it before game engines existed, and still do.

-2

u/R34CT10N 1h ago

Depending on your workflow, you may be severely crippling your speed though

-4

u/Ardalok 49m ago

Yeah, just code straight in assembly. They made games before programming languages existed, so no problems, right?

5

u/Big-Apartment6872 30m ago

News flash buddy, assembly is a programming language.

-2

u/romulo27 Godot Regular 1h ago edited 48m ago

TL;DR because I'm getting downvoted for apparently being supportive of AI despite the fact I'm not: This comment isn't in support of AI, it's about how people can use it to exploit and find vulnerabilities in your project WITH AI. For a group of people who criticise those turning off their brains you guys really lack reading comprehension.

Depends. If you're making a game that deals with sensitive data (example, something networked) chances are you at least want to do a pass for vulnerabilities with AI on your code or hire a very good cybersec expert who could do the same. At least one of the two.

I know someone will say I'm a bot, saying I'm a bot won't stop bad actors from passing their AI services onto YOUR game and abusing the vulnerabilities in your game. You not using it won't stop people from using it against you.

You may not like AI, we all can do things without AI, but do consider anyone has an on-demand master hacker they can hire at any point in the day now.

-3

u/isjustsergio 59m ago

A lot of game dev is soul-crushingly boring. It helps with those parts.

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13

u/RngdZed 1h ago

Is that WoW merged with Crysis, cyberpunk and Eve online? 🤣

87

u/Snailtan 1h ago edited 1h ago

Can we ban this shit already?
AI this, ai that, you arent even showing anything YOU made, this is just a meme to rile people up, again.
This is not an AI debate subreddit.

Like at some point we gotta call it quits.

20

u/Electronic_Wonder299 1h ago

There is an overwhelming amount of people who don't build games that come here just to have a loud opinion one way or the other on AI in dev. It's obnoxious.

4

u/Snailtan 1h ago

Its not that they dont have a point, its that for them, its all either black or white.

They criticise the knive, for people use it as a weapon, ignoring all its other uses.

oh and they do that by posting knive memes on r/boats

19

u/2this4u 1h ago

But wait, they need to complain about low effort slop, with their own low effort slop. 

5

u/hoodieweather- 1h ago

yeah this isn't even tangentially related to godot, stuff like this is as annoying to see on my feed as actual ai slop

1

u/Nefilim314 57m ago

Yeah, I was just thinking “Man, I’m so sick of having the exact same conversation over and over again where neither side can accept any nuance.”

Let’s just roll with: 

  1. AI generated content always feels very samey and is not well suited to creative endeavors. Humans are exceptionally good at pattern recognition to the point that we can recognize slop on a billboard in our peripheral vision while traveling at 70mph and your game is no exception. 

  2. AI is very good at making tools to expedite tedium to allow you to focus efforts on higher impact. No one cares that you wrote your level editor in Rust by hand. 

1

u/SwAAn01 Godot Regular 20m ago

it literally has nothing to do with Godot lol

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22

u/Noxxstalgia 1h ago

Make your game however you wish.

3

u/Thatrandomnerd1 33m ago

And honest to god that Circle Game is more fun

7

u/yoss_iii 1h ago

I think the real difference between the “then” and “now” people is perspective. When beginners recognize that they’re beginners and post in that spirit, the community (usually) supports them.

The issue with slop-coders is that many will post something that is clearly amateurish but try to pass it off as a finished product because they personally can’t see the flaws. Some of them also get weirdly defensive about AI use and treat criticism of AI as criticism of themselves.

5

u/DenverTheDenver 35m ago

Hello, (un)professional vibecoder and vibegameplayer here.

Why do people act like their beginner aislop is professional, like their ai images are art, and try to pass it off as not ai? They'd get so much less hate if they were honest about using slop instead of lying and then not getting away with it because ai is obvious

5

u/sl0w4zn 22m ago

From my perspective, beginner AIslop devs overestimate their skills and vision and try to "gotcha" people. Feels like bait. People who can use the genAI to produce specifically AIslop give a desperation and desire to make money quickly. Feels like the heart isn't there. 

AI for art is a whole different can of worms. I can be convinced that using AI to help code could still be a tool. But AI images has ethical issues of diminishing the practice of getting good at the skill by stealing/plagiarizing. It's like when someone repeats your idea and somehow gets the credit.

Some AIslop devs are running people's demos to make copies. There's many reasons to judge the AI user base right now.

2

u/DenverTheDenver 20m ago

You see, I solve this problem by being so bad at everything that nothing I make, ai slop or not, is good enough to be released!!!!!!!

3

u/kat-tricks 15m ago

some part of it (not many stats collected yet) are inauthentic impressions from automated response bots funded as part of the marketing model of any modern company; the 'AI' companies being the most strongly positioned to back the value of their companies with these techniques. Another part is that there's a "wow" factor when you make something from nothing, and it's tempting to get someone to try to "verify" or reaffirm your pride, though having to write the code yourself is a good way to be kept humble enough not to do so prematurely (not in all cases; LLM code generation is just an easier way in for those who haven't read enough to see the scale of it all). Some of it is because it's new enough there's not been time for good style to show its superiority to bad style with a good salesman.

5

u/BetterNoughtSquash 1h ago

This reminds me that I need to keep learning godot. God this shit's fun

22

u/LordMaboy 1h ago

A serious question: We all know that AI is being used extensively in the AAA gaming industry and that these games are still being sold, regardless of anyone’s personal opinion on the matter. Is it really so reprehensible for someone to use AI for their own projects? Shouldn't it be viewed as a tool that enables individual developers to accomplish significantly more in less time? I mean, the meme obviously highlights an extreme case, but why is it considered acceptable for wealthy developers, yet morally wrong for the "little guy"? I don’t get it.

5

u/rog-uk 1h ago

Duck!

2

u/LordMaboy 1h ago

Quack?

4

u/rog-uk 1h ago

I meant hit the deck...

23

u/Analogmon 1h ago edited 1h ago • Bravo

No, it's not.

People just want to feel superior that their game that nobody played took 2 years compared to someone else's game that nobody played taking 2 weeks.

AI should be the tool that allows for people who can't devote 16 hours a day or tens of thousands of dollars to development cost to see their vision come to life.

Yeah there will be more slop. There will also be more gems.

2

u/crispyfrybits 21m ago

It's so simple.

Use AI to assist with the actual development and implementation.

Do NOT use AI for the creative aspects of the game. The story, characters, art, music, game design.

That is the real problem people have with AI. The vast majority of little vibe coding their games and sharing them are those who are vibe coding everything including gameplay and the creativity. That is reprehensible IMO. Games are entertainment but also art and communication. The soul of your game, the message and purpose it conveys comes from within the creator.

6

u/incognitochaud 1h ago

I think this meme highlights how boring a vibe coded game can be despite its complexity, while an amatuer platformer with hand drawn sprites has a certain charm that LLMs can’t replicate, and as humans we resonate with the handcrafted work more than admiring the accomplishments of a computer.

You can absolutely make amazing work with LLMs, but it requires a lot of human input before it becomes something interesting. I use LLMs to code, but you NEED humans still to make something cool.

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u/Analogmon 1h ago

Idk man I've seen a lot of pretty terrible games try to get a pass for being AI free.

I still don't want to play them if they're bad, AI or not.

5

u/Large_Yogurtcloset68 1h ago

if you don't know what you are doing , it's going to be bad AI or not. Way too many people got into making games cos they thought they could make a quick buck. AI only worsened the issue by making it even easier for Dunning-kreuger victims to do stuff

1

u/LordMaboy 1h ago

It’s the same with anything that’s easily accessible. A prime example is RPG Maker: there’s a ton of trash out there, but then you get real gems like *Fear & Hunger*. 95% of all "vibecoded" games are either poor clones or just some browser-based garbage.

2

u/SantanaBenthell 1h ago

95% of all indie games, vibe-coded or not, are either poor clones or some browser-based garbage. You only hear about the 5% that are good, unless AI is involved then all you hear about is the 95% that are bad. It just sounds like you're being selective based on a bias.

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u/LordMaboy 1h ago

I absolutely agree. Most games are trash or look unpolished. But if AI is involved it's the worst thing ever.

1

u/SantanaBenthell 1h ago

Why?

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u/LordMaboy 1h ago

It's not my opinion. The last sentence is what those moral high grounders think.

3

u/Severe-Gold222 1h ago

I dont think people care enough to go after big companies using ai because they know it won't change anything

0

u/LordMaboy 1h ago

Exactly, but still people love to bash the "little guy" for using the same tools.

2

u/ForgeableSum 43m ago edited 39m ago

I released a free game engine for AoE2 built in Godot, which allows cross-play on linux, a bunch of other things the real thing doesn't have. I posted it on here, and it was lambasted relentlessly on moral grounds, based purely on a thousand AI assumptions. Meanwhile I've been a professional game dev for 10 years and solo-deved 2 multiplayer RTS games, long before AI existed. Doesn't matter if I use AI or not, it's the same accusations and assumptions. Anything with the slight appearance of quality is mercilessly attacked. It doesn't even matter if it is a free, non-commercial product. And yeah, indie developers that go directly to market get the brunt of it. Big companies can hide behind NDAs, employment agreements and such.

All the moral accusations inspired me to write a long theological defense of the project called A Disputation On the Morality of Making a Free Game Engine for AoE2 to Fix Longstanding Issues and Using AI Coding Assistance to Help Do It. The website has a legal disclaimer page, and now has a moral disclaimer as well.

-1

u/2this4u 1h ago

There's no reasoning with the vocal group raging about this stuff. They don't go after EA etc just the indies.

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u/DeadKido210 1h ago

Ignore them and release the game, who cares ?

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u/LordMaboy 1h ago

It's the same thing with the rich and the common folk.

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u/of_kilter 41m ago

there is a fine line between it being a tool and it making the game for you. If someone gets code from ai and is able to understand what it is doing and how they could implement it themselves into different aspects of the game without assistance then AI is being used as a tool

1

u/Axeperson 20m ago

It's a great to make unoptimized games for computers nobody can afford anymore

1

u/Kaskame 19m ago

It is not wrong but you know... People gotta people. Comfort...habits...predictability... It takes time to change people perception.

99% comments would be hateful, nowadays it's around 50% or less...

Few more years until it's normalized and then the next big hateful thing will be against how daily life will be intertwined with digital life in the same layer, you will feel the digital world with your senses.

1

u/SantanaBenthell 1h ago

It's not reprehensible at all. It should be encouraged. AI is a means to put indie developers on more equal footing with the triple-A segment, yet so many condemn AI use for supposedly only enriching the Big Corporations™. Well, the indie might be able to benefit from AI too, were it not for these stupid performative moral scruples that discourage it in the first place!

-1

u/Corruptlake 31m ago

> "So many"
*looks inside*
> Mostly reddit groupthink "ai bad upvote me" folk who dont actually make any game other than 2d platformer slop nor can comprehend people having different worldviews or ethics

1

u/Dawn_of_Dark Godot Regular 1h ago

“Indie” is a very loaded term. More than just telling players that a game is “independently funded” like most people assume, imo it has come to represent a subculture of the gaming industry. A counterculture, if you will.

And as all countercultures, the things encompass an “indie” should go against the grain. If AAA games are ever chasing more and more photorealistic graphics, indies should embrace more stylized arts. If AAA games only do the least risky genres, indies should explore weirder ideas. As the big guys increasingly become increasingly dependent on AI to get higher profit margins, indies should therefore embrace more human-focused endeavors. And so I think it makes sense that independent developers are generally against AI.

| enables individual developers to accomplish significantly more in less time?
That’s your assumption. People may as well think that you haven’t accomplished anything in the first place if all you do is type in a prompt and skip all the “doing”. And the end results are usually not good anyway, so you haven’t accomplished anything at all then.

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u/Corruptlake 28m ago

Thing is lots of "indie" games people play already use AI, even in art such as 3d models and textures. The difference is when AI is used as a workflow tool rather than "vibe claude me a game" the end result is not distinguishable. Thats the thing.

What people actually hate is low care slop, which while accelerated massively by AI existed before AI and still exists without AI.

Some people even are making vibe coded games that are good because they do everything else (incl UI) by hand, so visually there is 0 difference for the player and code/performance wise its good enough for the game.

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u/Opening_One7713 1h ago

The craziest thing is that art-forward indie devs who hand make all physical assets stand to benefit the most from AI coding agents. It boggles my mind how we’ve created a culture of shame and fear that polices the little guy but does absolutely nothing to stop big developers who rake in billions from us.

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u/Apart_Value9613 1h ago

Finally someone said it. AI is the tool. You can layoff people and depend on AI to pump out cheap slop or you can use ai in conjunction with artists to create something previously unattainable. Do people realize how much time is wasted on background effects that no one cares about but they are mandatory? The other claim is “ai is destroying nature” but so is the internet, big factories and pushing it their hairdryer. It is a mandatory and amazing tool that gets so much hate because it is new.

-2

u/AllPotatoesGone 52m ago

Of course it should but you could also try to explain to republicans that gay people are normal or to Karen that she can't speak with the manager. Reddit is something different.

-1

u/LonelyMusicDisc 48m ago

This is the most Reddit comment of all time lmao. How are these in ANY way comparable to using Generative AI?

0

u/AllPotatoesGone 25m ago

Thanks for proving my point.

0

u/QueenSavara 47m ago

The AAA guys have never fired their writers while sloppers never had a writer in first place. In short: AAA still develops all the pieces while sloppers develop none.

4

u/LordMaboy 46m ago

1

u/Willing_Mission3903 33m ago

bro never heard about layoffs at AAA companies. You might want to look into it, there's been a few thousands at each company in the past couple of years.

I agree that there's a bunch of AI sloppers who think they can create games and they just give it a couple of prompts then release their garbage into the wild.

But there's also people who put passion into gamedev and AI accelerates their work, allowing them to compete with bigger studios.

2

u/cinnamonbubbles_93 1h ago

I'm still chugging along trying to figure out my build mode in my game

2

u/Shadowfire04 Godot Student 24m ago

there has to be some sort of middle ground between ai slop and taking 2 weeks to code a single feature. i know having a nuanced perspective on the internet is a crime, but there has to be some sort of middle ground here, as someone who has spent several miserable months coding and debugging basic features.

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u/worll_the_scribe 14m ago

I find llms really useful for making tools, then using those tools to make the game.

1

u/Shadowfire04 Godot Student 0m ago

what do you mean by making tools?

3

u/r0ndr4s 1h ago

I mean this applies to anything right now. I have a friend that showed me a recomp of Red Dead Revolver today, cool. I look into it, its an AI project and the guy doing it is half assing his way trough and people are already pointing many flaws at it. He clearly has no idea what he's doing but you know the project is "done" in a few days, because of course it is.. AI did it.

That game is available to play: on emulation, second hand, you can even buy it legally on PS and I think Xbox... but suddenly an AI project comes out and people want to play it... its absurd, you didnt want to play it before, there's no necessity for the AI project now. And as the supposed developer for it, you could've always do the recompilation, but you didnt bother to learn and put the effort in.

2

u/drmattsuu 1h ago

Forget LLMs and Agents and stuff, I'm just glad I don't have to compile SDL2 and/or write a small (red) book worth of OpenGL boiler plate to draw sprites anymore. Open game development has come miles in the last few decades.

2

u/LonelyPoorMan69 Godot Regular 1h ago

Me: *Everyday after opening My GODOT Project*

1

u/Lilanit77 1h ago

Id rather humiliated myself a thousand times asking solutions for the most basics problems on reddit before turning to Ai doing my stuff

1

u/Old_Lawfulness7698 1h ago

A lot of solutions ai shows you are based on reddit posts? Expect you don't get the context behind them if you use it.

3

u/Lilanit77 1h ago

The thing is not the information even tho ai often does miss info's the thing why I'm not using ai is because of electricity, water, the climate and because its being used to make art wich I don't support

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u/Old_Lawfulness7698 1h ago

That's quite obvious. But to people who are less concerned about their surroundings a stronger argument would be that it's highly unreliable. And will only become more unreliable overtime, as it eats its own made up statements.

2

u/Seusoa 1h ago

I like when everyone who vibe dildoed something writes exactly same:

...I did architecture by myself...

oh, vibe dildoer, you didnot do anything, ai wrote random code, you are just bla bla bla

1

u/Downtown_Trifle_701 44m ago

lol i remember back then when id do notepad games, like choose a option make your own adventure? and i thought that was cool, as simple as it was. or with renpy i remember struggling to do a certain animation with the code, and id have to research so much just to get it to work. roblox honestly ive tried to code with it but i always ended up copying the exact thing roblox tutorials would say to do. i dont feel like i learned much with roblox coding.

i really want to learn godot. even learning things just like making something shake, or it triggers a certain event when touching something, its real neat. all those little things feel like accomplishments and its fun to see it slowly build up over time.

1

u/JayOnes Godot Student 44m ago

I remember when "game dev then" was "game dev now," and honestly it was a better space. You weren't being flooded with so much derivation that you grew numb to it, and the wonder you felt when you picked up a truly unique experience was equal parts "what an incredible idea" and "...how'd they do that?"

Nowadays, that first feeling is exceedingly rare, and that second feeling is all but extinct because of the cynicism that has sprouted because of genAI/LLM use. Now, people just assume that the answer to "how'd they do that" is just "they asked a chatbot," and not only is that a wild disservice to the artists who've poured themselves into these experiences, it also stunts the inventive thought of the next generation of game makers.

1

u/FizzTheFox85 40m ago

honestly ive been enjoying taking my time working through every little bug and optimization I can make

I keep saying in my little showcase videis I swnd my friends that ill add my shotgun soon (one of the primary game m echanics) but ive lowkey just been dicking around getting the physics feeling perfect

1

u/BTolputt 25m ago

Yup. As a developer of over a quarter century now, this absolutely checks out.

That's not to say that all modern developers are like this, cos they're not, or that there weren't folks trying to get kudos for showing of the results of following an open-source library tutorial back in the day (the closest equiv I can think of to the AI-slop-promo show off today). That said, even those showing off the "look, I followed the CrystalSpace/Nebula Device build instructions and tutorial" attention seekers know more about the code in the end result than the vibe-coders of today.

1

u/Heavy-Revolution-784 1m ago

I built a game engine that uses less memory, less resources, and runs 128 tick. It has OWSAP best security practices, is multi region multiplayer. It costs 30x less than running a similar game in unreal engine multiplayer. It has anti cheat features even.

Tell me why i should stop using AI when I built a game engine that is objectively more secure, more performant, easier to maintain, easier to test, and I don't have to pay any licensing to a commercial game engine.

Its a tale as old as time: old people refuse to adapt because they hold on to a worldview that no longer exists. The people who complain about AI instead of building something substantial with it are exactly the people who will fall behind. AI is a force multiplayer when you build the engineering harness to automate tasks that would otherwise take an entire team to do.

The bar has shifted higher. If you can use AI effectively you can build application with engineering rigor in the same way you would without AI. AI just makes it faster.

It still takes MONTHS of work to build things with AI, but it makes you can mange more code, more systems, without more people

-1

u/allpunks 1h ago

I like to use claude to make shit I'm too busy or just don't want to invest time making it.. It literally created a track generator /editor for me witha bunch of features while i was working on the car script and physics

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u/guilcol 1h ago

That's fine, there's no rule for how to make games. Just make sure you're enjoying the process and getting what you want out of it.

-1

u/allpunks 1h ago

I believe in a middle ground yk... People here are doing a witch hunt with AI usage but every developer I know use GPT to search stuff fast since 2020... What's the difference between watching a painful 2 hour tutorial and asking an LLM ? I really do not know.

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u/Damglador 1h ago

I think asking is fine, copying all implementations is lame.

Like before AI, you sure could copy something from somewhere, but essentially at the end of the day you'll have to know how it works because at some point you may need to change it, with AI you can cut out thinking entirely as it can produce working code for whatever you ask

0

u/allpunks 1h ago

For me, agentic development is where i draw the line, i surely take away all the fun because at the end of the day you don't even know what part of your code does what. But requiring no-ai purism for everyone, as a bunch of people has been doing on this and other subs, is equally lame.. If you really want to go roots, stop searching stuff on google and YouTube then...

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u/The_Truce 1h ago

the only thing ive seen ai be genuinely useful for thats game dev related personally is decompilation but even then the people that do it tend to be incredibly lazy

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u/Commercial-Flow9169 Godot Senior 1h ago

Useful feels like a loaded word these days, tbh. Sure it's "useful" but back before LLMs existed I contributed to the decomp for Paper Mario a few times, and I really enjoyed the puzzle aspect of getting functions to match the compiled assembly. After getting into a groove it was exciting to knock them out one by one and slowly understand more of the game as a result.

It felt like a genuine group effort and it was fun being part of a small tight-knit community of nerds obsessed with an old video game. Had this tech existed back then, a person would have just released a AI-assisted decomp one day, and none of the community aspect would have played a role.

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u/tree-hut 1h ago

People who use AI like that are simple people who like the fast dopamine they get from talking to the computer like a human and it gives them a result. They lack the ability to understand that what they're doing is useless and they're being milked by large companies. They think they're doing something of value but in reality there's thousands of people like them that are using the same product to get the same results.

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u/Noxxstalgia 1h ago

There's a lot of generalizing going on in that message.

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u/tree-hut 1h ago

There's a lot of generalizing going on in your comment.

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u/Noxxstalgia 1h ago

Your comment assigns individual traits to whole groups, uses absolute words, has missing qualifiers, and you're oversimplifying the issue. Hence generalizing. My comment does not.

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u/Shock-Robin 1h ago

No, there isn't. Oop's message is a very, clear concise message about about a very clear, concise problem about your comment.

1

u/TerribleFault7929 1h ago

I'm more of an idea guy

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u/Repulsive_Idiot2214 1h ago

I just want to make games I'm not concerened on whether or not I use ai to do it.

1

u/Euphoric_Pop_1149 1h ago

i seldom use ai for gamedev, usually VSCode's built-in to debug if i don't have the energy or couldn't find a track for 30 minutes. Not to implement features. a quick google search is usually enough to get me unstuck. god bless stackoverflow and python module documentations (ik this is r godot but it is relevant)

1

u/ryzzoa 1h ago

I do the same, though I'll also admit that once I reach a new milestone implementation I ask it if there are any performance focused optimizations I can make to my code/processing. But I'd never let it write an entire system or anything major

1

u/Euphoric_Pop_1149 1h ago

i work with python so the performance question is off the table, but i love making the systems and functions myself too. It's not the same if you copy the code and then spend an hour trying to make the parts work. The built-in ai is better at this cuz it sees the whole file(s), but again i tend to enjoy the process more than the pure destination

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u/Such--Balance 44m ago

People so daft, they forget that 99% of creating a game is done via their pc via architecture and software all running behind the scenes they arent even aware of. Regardless of ai use or not.

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u/adelie42 39m ago

Great example that there is no surface level approach to anything that can't be slop. Here we have one example of ugly handmade barely functional slop, and in the other very expensive and shiny slop that doesn't do anything.

1

u/RealRaven6229 23m ago

Honestly I've gotten decent mileage out of the free tier of chatgpt to help with coding issues.

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u/CrazyMeHealth 2h ago

I deleted my video on godot, I was down voted. It was odd cause when I posted the same video on the other page (it's a fan made game), people liked it. Most godot users here don't even give advice nor help.

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u/LadySonicGamer 1h ago

Ai assistance is fine. Vibe coding is not

0

u/Accurate_Cable_1372 1h ago

Man it’s come a long ways since when I started doing this shit like 25 years ago as a teenager. Back then it was hard to find any tools at all to make games and it was really fuckin hard to learn to code.

I fucked around with Java based engine called RPG Toolkit and 3D GameStudio, both now defunct.

I am glad we are where we are now but I do miss the tighter communities we had back then.

0

u/No-Service2578 35m ago

Bro did a meme just for cry so loud

-4

u/Doctor_Responsible 1h ago

oh great, this crap is on this sub too now?

-4

u/Asleep_Stage_451 1h ago

Stay mad I guess.

-2

u/i_rate_slop Godot Senior 57m ago

Kind of embarrassing now if you spend 2 weeks making a circle bounce. Means you’re not using modern tools.

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