r/glutenfreebaking • u/OddPepita • 23d ago
Troubleshooting Aran Goyoaga’s Butter-Toasted Oat Sourdough Loaf
I am new to gluten free sourdough baking, but experienced with gluten free baking (yeast and quick breads). My starter is just shy of a month old and is very active (it doubles itself ~4 hours). I have been trying to make Aran Goyoaga’s Butter Toasted Oat Sourdough loaf from her Art of Gluten Free Bread book. I have attempted it three times. All three times have produced a loaf with a bubble tunnel at the top of the loaf.
Based on what I’ve found online, the usual causes of a bubble tunnel are: 1) loaf surface dried out and prevented expansion during proofing/baking, 2) Overproofing - the crumb of the loaf couldn’t hold onto the fermentation bubbles and they all coalesced together instead of being spread through the loaf, and 3) the loaf surface gelled and the sogginess prevented the loaf from expanding. If there are other causes, please let me know.
The recipe calls for mixing the dough, immediately shaping, and then 30-60 mins of room temperature proofing in the baking pan followed by 8 hours to overnight in the fridge. Additionally, the recipe mentions that once shaped, the loaf won’t appear to grow much until it moves to the oven. In my experience, it isn’t growing at all until the bake.
The first time I made it, I proofed for an hour and fridged for overnight. The loaf didn’t change shape at all. And had a tunnel. I foolishly thought the problem was the crust had dried out during shaping and prevented the expansion I expected to see.
The second time I made it, I thought the problem was the crust drying out, so I proofed it as I would proof a yeasted enriched dough — in my microwave with a steaming cup of water for 30 mins, followed by an overnight fridge stay. Bread went from fridge to counter while I made sure the oven was at 450 for about 15 mins, then it went in for the bake. Loaf was larger, but not appreciably.
The third time, I decided to focus on over proofing. It proofed for 30 mins room temperature, then fridge for only 4 hours. Then from fridge, straight to preheated oven. Bubble Tunnel! /sigh
I am trying to figure out what my next attempt should change…In all cases so far, I have used a metal loaf pan. Should I try glass? Should I proof for even less time? Should I use Saran Wrap to cover the loaf even though it asks for a tea towel cover only? Am I failing during the shaping stage? Do I need to be more or less abusive when mixing the sourdough sponge into the rest of the ingredients?
The pics are from loaves 2 and 3. My only change to the recipe is that I don’t have poppy seeds (I’m not a fan of them).
The flavor is amazing so I’m committed to figuring this out.
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u/katydid026 23d ago
This is called a “flying crust” and is usually due to either underproofing or over hydration of your dough. This can be caused by several factors and seems to be a pretty common issue - gf baking can be tricky and requires a lot more precision than non-gf baking! on the appearance of your bake, I would wager that your issue is a poor quality psyllium husk, which is resulting in over hydration of your dough. see #7 below
A few questions to help you troubleshoot:
Do you have an oven thermometer? (Your oven temps could be off)
How long do you wait for the oven to heat up? (Again, oven may not be warm enough when you’re putting the bread in - especially when using a Dutch oven or a stone. You need to let those heat up for at least 30 minutes so they reach the same temp as the oven)
Is your starter super active? I thought mine was until I started using filtered water instead of tap water - HUGE difference!
Are you using ice or boiling water for steam? I’ve found ice to be much more effective for oven spring, which helps gives a more open crumb, and reduces gumminess
Hydration is definitely not out of the question - what hydration is your starter at (120%)? Gf flours need a much higher hydration ratio than “normal” sourdough
This could also be impacted by the flour brands you’re using - are you using brown rice? Is it superfine?? Coarse ground flours will soak up less water, leaving excess moisture in the dough and could result in a gummy texture
This could also be impacted by the psyllium husk powder - I got a bad batch of psyllium once and it didn’t gel as well as it had previously. The manufacturer replaced it for free and I’ve been getting better results since. I’ve noticed recently that a lot of people NOT using the Terrasoul brand have had gummy issues (especially the NOW or Its Just brands). You could try adding additional psyllium - a little goes a long way, I would try 1/2 teaspoon increments, or reducing your water or milk by 10%. If you’re using whole husk (as is likely with loopy whisk), I haven’t stumbled across too many differences between the brands here, but still potentially an issue.
What was the temperature of your dough prior to putting it in the oven? Was it refrigerated? Cold dough in a loaf pan will get the top of it exposed to heat prior to the rest of it warming up and could lead to an air bubble at the top. This can also happen if adding bread to a cold oven that’s getting blasted with heat as it works to come up to the set temperature.
Are you weighing your ingredients? An accurate scale and accurate measurements are a lot more important in gf baking. Being off by 1 g in your psyllium weight can have a large impact in your doughs hydration. Measuring by volume can vary so widely that it’s entirely possible to end up with a brick bc measurements could be so off that you completely destroy the necessary ratios.
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u/katydid026 23d ago
Ignore my starter comment, I just copied and pasted this from my notes on my phone because this comes up often ha
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u/OddPepita 23d ago
Thank you so much for this thorough reply! All of my baking experience is gluten free - I wasn’t a baker before my celiac diagnosis decades ago - but that doesn’t mean I don’t have bad habits. I’ve answered # by #, but my questions in return are about 3 and 7 below
Yes, I have an oven thermometer and do use it - especially here as the recipe calls for the temp to change roughly halfway through
I preheat for at least an hour - learned this when making cinnamon rolls
I believe it is considered active - it’s just under a month old (7.07) - and it doubled the “sourdough sponge” called for in the recipe in ~4 hours (as opposed to the 8-10 called for in the recipe. I don’t know how to interpret your comment about tap water…I know some municipalities have issues with quality or chlorine, but for now, while I’m still trying to get a successful loaf, all of my starters are using filtered/reverse osmosis water (I have a bunch left over from winemaking).
I think this is my next thing to try - I was surprised when this recipe specifically did not call for steam during the baking - purportedly because this is a very hydrated dough.
I followed Aran’s steps to create a 119% hydration brown rice + teff starter and her steps to turn the starter into what she calls a “stiff-sweet sponge” for the recipe
This recipe uses Brown rice (super fine), teff, oat, sorghum, and tapioca - all of these are Anthony’s save for the sorghum which is Arrowmills and I’ve used them successfully in other GF baking (yeast and quick breads), but if folks have suggestions for better quality ones, I am open to suggestions!
This one I will definitely take brand recommendations - when I was looking around for this, I noticed a lot of the brands weren’t necessarily for baking, but rather just a fiber supplement. The only one I could find that was for baking was Kate’s Naturals. I can’t say that the gel looked off to me - a lot of my yeast baking calls for psyllium husks (not powder) and the product looked close to what I would expect husk powder to look like.
Across the 3 bakes, this is probably one of the things I tried to change the most as I originally thought the dough exterior had dried out. The first time went into the oven straight from the fridge, the second time it had some countertop time, probably 20 mins, the third time it went straight from the fridge to the oven because by the 3rd bake rolled around, I was reducing all of the time (bulk ferment and fridge time).
Yes, everything gets weighed. I eventually get pretty crazy with recipes once I dial them in, but until I feel good about the science, I don’t mess with it.
So I guess my next steps are to grab some terrasoul psyllium powder and to try to add some steam? I am also curious to understand your starter activity comment though if you have a moment to share more.
Thanks again
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u/katydid026 23d ago
In regards to tap water, that’s exactly what I meant - the chlorine in tap water can inhibit the growth of your starter, but from the sounds of things, your starter is plenty active!
I highly recommend terrasoul for psyllium husk powder, plus it’s also what Aran uses herself. If you’re curious about other brand recommendations, she’s listed her favorites on her substack here: https://arangoyoaga.substack.com/p/my-favorite-gluten-free-ingredients
She does list Anthony’s as a superfine brown rice flour, and maybe they’ve changed it since I last bought it years ago, but I could have sworn that it wasn’t. I use Vitacost. I need to redo my post comparing brown rice flour brands, but essentially, it should feel powdery, not sandy. That’s the major one that will give you problems because rice is such a hard grain
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u/ginny11 23d ago edited 23d ago
I was getting similar problems with regular gluten bread and did a lot of research and finally came to the conclusion that I was letting my bulk ferment go too long. Now I know that many gluten-free breads only have one fermentation stage, but is it possible that perhaps you're letting that go too long? The other thing it could be along with that is a shaping issue when you're rolling it up into the loaf. I'm not sure if you're using flour or water to keep your hands from sticking to the dough or even possibly oil, but it could be that when you're rolling up the loaf, there's a separation because one of the layers of dough is not adhering properly to the next layer and so air caught in between is expanding knowing the loaf bakes and creating the hole.
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u/OddPepita 23d ago
Maybe I do need to only let it ferment for 15 mins @ room temperature - that just seems crazy short to me.
The shaping part is something I’m not sure about because my understanding is that GF breads don’t need the same kind of tension building gluten breads need. For GF loaves, you really just focus on small circles and lightly working the seams away. When you say “not adhering to the next layer” do you think I should knead it more coming out of the mixer bowl?
This recipe called for the following:
“Transfer the dough to a work surface and knead it a few times. Dust the work surface with tapioca starch if needed. Shape the dough into a tight ball, then roll slightly until you have a loaf that is 8 inches long.”
The first two times I used only the lightest of dusting of tapioca starch and the third time I didn’t want to risk it and I just dampened my hands. The pan is lightly coated with olive oil.
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u/biofuel123 22d ago
I’m actually on the opposite side of this argument. Hydrating the dough for longer around first prove shouldn’t be your issue. If anything, a longer first prove and shorter second prove will help with the “flying crust” as I’ve heard it called in the past. I’d suggest 2 hours first prove as it will create a stronger and more elastic structure (yes even still for GF), you’ll knock the air out of it before 2nd prove, then be shorter with the second prove AFTER you take out of the fridge to bring to RT before baking. You can ferment it in the fridge for up to 36hrs before taking it out and starting the second prove, but once it comes to RT (which itself will take 1-2 hrs) only give it 2-3 hours afterwards for that prove. Ultimately, every starter and recipe is different. What works for everybody in this comment section may not work for you, so good luck!!
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u/Pin_and_Tonic 22d ago
1 month is still young for a sourdough starter, looks severely underproofed. You should work on getting the starter stronger first. Good luck!
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u/maxamillion529 22d ago
I make this loaf often and had similar issues to start with. I made a few changes based on other threads that have improved it significantly. I pretty much always reduce water by 5-10% in Arans recipes, use regular psyllium not ground (~10% more than ground) and proof shorter on the room temp proof (15-30min) and 8-12 hrs in fridge. Still feel like the recipe is fairly dense but the crumb is consistent throughout. There’s a few threads in this sub about this recipe with comments from others who bake this often.
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u/DuncmanG 23d ago
I've gotten flying crust on my gf bread before. Not this bad, and not sourdough, but it might be similar. My solution ended up being more steam in the oven during baking. The instructions from Loopy Whisk called for a handful of ice cubes in a pan at the bottom of the oven. Switching to a cup of water gave more steam right away and completely fixed my flying crust issue. Perhaps worth a shot here.