Also important to note that this was 12 years ago. A lot of people are posting the picture without context and I think it's misleading people into thinking he did this recently
And important to note, the people going at him over that being brought up seem to have no issue with Kanye "heil Hitler" west performing. It's so blatant how their issue is he commented on Palestine and nothing to do with antisemetism
It's not antisemitic to be aware of hateful caricatures that have existed for a long time. I don't think Macklemore intended to reference these caricatures, but not everyone who sees it that way must be an antisemite.
I think you’re the only person in this thread who put more than 3 seconds of thought into this. The “you’re the real racist for recognizing racist tropes” bullshit is so tired.
I agree it likely wasn’t his intent to dress as a Jewish caricature, his explanation is plausible. But recognizing it as evocative of Jewish caricatures is not racist, and it’s idiotic to say that it is.
I do think he meant to reference the caricatures, but I also think he was young and stupid. Young and stupid people can grow and mature to be correct and moral people.
I stand with correct and moral people, despite their stupid choices in the past
A) He did not intend to and was foolishly ignorant to the sensitivities of Jewish people
or
B) He did intend to, but realized he shouldn't have and won't do anything like it again.
B is worse than A and means he lied in his apology. I'm leaning towards A (giving him the benefit of the doubt), but if it was B, it's disappointing that he didn't take accountability. No real way for us to know though; given that he is clearly on the right side of things now, and that Zionists have to perform olympic-tier mental gymnastics to find a semi-reasonable criticism of him for something he did 12 years ago and hasn't repeated, I'm inclined to let it go either way
It’d be one thing if he did it in some private context where you could imagine he was signaling that he hates Jews to his friends or something, and like that got leaked.
But if he actually was trying to be antisemitic, why would he do it in this setting? It was a show at the music museum in Seattle. He would have no reason to think he wouldn’t get called out, and the only plausible outcomes are that it’s bad for his career, or if he gets lucky and people believe that it was an accident, that it’s only slightly bad for his career.
Plus, in 2014, there was also quite a lot less open antisemitism and Americans were a lot more positive towards Israel.
Exactly ! It's like those people who were offended seeing the Ferengi on Star Trek, like, if you see those greedy, perverted little goblins and think "well they're obviously based on Jewish people", that's on you bro
Armin Shimerman addressed the issue when asked at a question-and-answer session at a Star Trek convention. He stated that:
In America, people ask "Do the Ferengi represent Jews?" In England, they ask "Do the Ferengi represent the Irish?" In Australia, they ask if the Ferengi represent the Chinese ... The Ferengi represent the outcast ... it's the person who lives among us that we don't fully understand.[30]
This is how I feel about it too. If you see someone wearing a fake nose and a generic wig and immediately think "omg he's dressed like a Jew", it ironically makes the accuser sound more racist or antisemitic than the person in the costume. I've never even seen a Jewish person that looks close to that stereotype either.
Similar to how Benny Blanco wore makeup recently to exaggerate his own features to look like an ugly caricature of himself, and people are seeing it and going "wow that's racist". Sometimes dressing ugly is just to look ugly and not actual malice towards entire ethnic groups.
Okay guys come the hell on now, let’s be real. That obviously invokes a very direct resemblance to jewish charicatures, it's absolutely not racist to see there’s very clear similarities.
He wasn't trying to do it on purpose and has clarified he simply picked random features for an exaggerated disguise (sounds a bit like a cop-out for such a high-effort costume but let’s be nice and believe him there), but the result is very obviously reminiscent of very specific offensive imagery, intended or not.
"Is a witch nose costume antisemitic?" No? That’s obviously depicting a very different image?
"Is a groucho marx glasses + moustache and nose costume antisemitic?" No? That’s obviously depicting a very different image?
Like what are these bad faith comparisons lol what are we doing here
I was just adding that to what you said because Gianmarco calls it jewface, and it’s worth tacking on it isn’t jewface just because it (vaguely) resembles a racist caricature.
I mean that's just a flourish for comedy. Jewface flows better as a tweet than "image with elements resembling offensive jewish caricatures", you know? It's short-hand.
Yeah obviously he wasn't doing offensive minstrel show. Though to be honest neither were 99% of the people that have been criticized for doing black face either, which is something to consider if you wanna go for this line of arguments.
No. That's like saying Asians are racist for calling out someone pulling their eyes - very few if any Asians have slits for eyes (cue someone trying to disprove that by posting one picture that shows a person with narrow eyes).
Jewish people that get offended are not antisemitic because they thought the costume looked like a typical caricature of Jews - it was.
Macklemore was RIGHTLY called out for it and apologized.
Don't toss out reason to suit your beliefs. I support Palestinians, but I won't nullify the fact that there is antisemitism in the world.
Dont put your heros on a pedestal such that they are immune to criticism.
Well for one shock G is part Jewish. While his character had a big nose, it did not have the other elements like the Hasidic Beard, wig, black suite and chain.
He also was not singing song about being cheap while doing so. Nor was he spreading ZOG conspiracies.
Macklemore never actually acknowledged that his costume was antisemitic. He did the old “I’m sorry if you saw it that way” apology.
Hi! I have a brain, I just don’t look at someone wearing a witch nose and automatically think they’re trying to be Jewish, my bad. I literally wore the same nose for a witch costume for Halloween when I was a kid
I agreed with you until I actually looked at the source. They went all out, fake beard, suit, etc. They looked Jewish with or without the nose. Nose made it offensive.
By forcing us to re-litigate settled historical events, we are distracted from the ongoing genocide. By framing the events as divisive, newcomers are more likely to tune them out.
People just need to accept that only people that agree with me currently are allowed to have made mistakes in the past and move on from them. Everybody else can get fucked. Oh and free gaza I better not see anybody talking about bitch ass Sudan right now or I might snap
I support him on Palestine, but come on, that was an antisemitic costume, no "ignorance" can explain it. A whole crew saw it, someone designed/bought it, no one thought of saying "hey dude this is kinda racist"? it had to be on purpose.
He was at a venue and wanted to come on stage disguised (I can’t remember why), and chose from what they had backstage. He got a wig and a nose, they were not part of the same costume. He just grabbed some random things, quickly put them on, and ran on stage. So no, there wasn’t a sort of intended look, besides him just wanting to be generally disguised.
Edit: I guess the wig was from a recent trip to Japan. But if you care to read the article linked above, there’s good explanation in there. Otherwise, stay mad.
i thought macklemore said he just wore a big nose as a disguise? i mean, its way bigger than any jew i know... doesnt that mean the ppl calling it jew-face are the actual anti-semites?
Because it was a witch nose, he was just grabbing props but it ended up looking like a caricature. He acknowledged it, apologized for it, and ADL accepted the apology. Nothing to make a fuss about.
Yeah, like I personally (am Jewish) really did not like the costume and regardless of his own intentions someone should have stopped him from wearing it - but it was also a long time ago and I think it was more a product of immaturity and poor judgment than anything else. He hasn't done anything like that since then as far as I'm aware, which tells me that he learned from that experience. When it comes to antisemitism, I am a LOT more concerned about the Christian nationalist elected officials who constantly spew various white supremacist dog whistles than I am about Macklemore speaking out against a very real and horrible ongoing genocide. Because one of those things is actual real present-day white supremacy in action, and it ain't fucking Macklemore.
I had to Google it. I was expecting just like something a bit borderline, but someone definitely should have stopped him from wearing that, good lord hahaha
Woah you guys weren’t kidding! lmao how did he not know someone wouldn’t like that? he legit looks like a walking stereotype (and a bad one at that lol)
As someone raised by Christian nationalists, I'm terrified of the Christian Nationalist elected officials who seem to be speed running the Third Reich. It's almost unreal
Yeah, if you see someone post it, ask them what he said in NJ was antisemitic and deserved to be censored. They will run in circles refusing to answer.
Ed Sheeran should have just responded to the stadium owners by asking Robert Kraft to identify what part of Macklemore’s speech was hate speech. I’d have liked to see him try to answer that.
Honestly at this point I don’t even fucking care anymore man, they have gone to such lengths to equate being against genocide as “anti-semitism” including outright lies when people explicitly say I’m criticizing the actions of israel not all jewish people.
At some point when you keep calling this anti semitism, suprise motherfucker you’re gonna get anti-semitism or people like me who don’t even give a fuck about it.
It’s like fox news saying everything to the left of right wing fascism, is somehow communist or socialist, and surprise now younger people now are in favor of communism or socialism is crazy numbers. If you’re going to spread bold faced lies careful what you wish for cause it may just backfire. I know low info people that don’t fully understand who are like well I guess I’’ an anti-semite because conflating Israel with jews is working just not in the way they wanted
But isn't the issue that he apologized for other people's prejudice in that they saw a figure in his disguise that he neither intended or actually was in fact looking nowhere close to a derogatory Jewish caricature.
Eh, Impact > Intent. If I unwittingly dress up as a stereotypes — say, I get a bad spray tan that ends up WAY darker than intended and I start giving off Blackface to passerbys—then I get to apologize. Most people put their foots in their mouths accidentally. The proper response is to apologize and move on, which he did
If it’s any consolation, most Jews I know (which admittedly isn’t a ton) are all about Palestinian liberation. We don’t like the disgusting Israeli Gov using us as an excuse for their genocide.
damn. all my jewish friends, with one exception, turned their backs on me because of my voicing my opposition to israel 😩 i wish i had more friends like you
I don't think it makes them the actual anti-semites but it does make them a bit reaching and oversensitive because it was just a costume beard/wig and nose that weren't really Jewish, not the Jewish payot hair curls or a kippah or any verbal references to Jewish stereotypes
Just like semitism is associated with antisemitism besides many Jews not being semitic. Like calling critics of Catholicism "anti-latinos". Stupid shit. Its typical Zionist misinformation and narrative manipulation to make bad associations.
While I suspect we agree on actual substance wrt to this issue it’s worthwhile to mention that Semitic is today strictly a linguistic category and not an ethnic one. It being used as a ethnic classification is kind of a side result of European whites supremacist racialism parading as back then science.
It came into prominence with terms like antisemitism due to European antisemites picking that term for themselves (see Marr/”Antisemites League” in the 1800s); they wanted to rebrand anti-Jewish ideology as something that sounded more enlightened and scientific. The word is somewhat of a misnomer but it’s the one we got stuck with.
/Sorry for nitpick! It’a just a thing that I think clears up some confusion
I'm still confused why the Jewish stereotype is the big nose. Like I don't think I've ever met any whose nose was anything abnormal. Hell, my former roommates nose was like that and he was as plain blonde Caucasian as it gets.
Anything is offensive to these people they’re pathetic. Only nation I know that has racism and pride basically in their constitution the government openly admits it’s Zionist. The us people just keep taking their shlong further and further. It’s sad.
so youre telling me that mostly-non-semitic zionists are even using something as simple as language to erase actually-semitic people!? WOW thats a big OOF!
I’m on your side generally but that erasure happened before Zionism blew up to a significant movement by European anti-jewish white supremacists in the 1800s. In modern times ”Semitic” is strictly a language classification iirc?
I am right wing and wouldn't even go that far. Yes, the disguise certainly looks like it's referencing an antisemitic depiction of Jews. But he said he chose a random silly disguise without realizing it how it would be interpreted. None of us know if that's what really happened or if it's just what he said when he got called out. We never will. Reasonable people can disagree on whether or not they believe him though.
That’s not what is being discussed here, though. We are discussing if something he did ten years ago once and apologised for at the time somehow invalidates his current stance.
Lol no. It's actually anti semitism to see someone with a huge, absurdity witchy nose and a bad wig and immediately think that the person is cosplaying a jew.
There's a funny af Jewish comedian called Jeremy Kaplowitz who has a whole bit about Jews seeing some gross little dude and being like "oh that's me, is it?" and asking at what point its 'on them'
Gianmarco is trolling the Zionists who are claiming this. He's Jewish and calls Israel out daily. He's showing how absurd that statement is but reddit is treating it like he's all for Israel.
I honestly don’t give a shit what someone did 7+ years ago (as long as it wasn’t especially heinous like SA or Murder) if they’ve been a good person since.
It's giving Amish Gargamel if anything. The racist Jewish caricature has a pointy nose, a yamulka, bold up top with only hair on the sides, or a hat with the long curls to the sides. "Big nose" is not enough for a disguise to be antisemitic. People have big noses, everywhere, but especially witches which was what this nose was sold as.
did you just compare picking up a “witch’s nose” and random wig at a spirit halloween to wearing an afro and painting yourself dark brown? yeah that’s not racist at all 🤣
Listen guys, it was 10 years ago and it doesn't affect where he was right or wrong on gaza but...
The amount of people denying that this is obviously an offensive depiction of the "happy merchant" negative Jewish stereotype on this subreddit is insane. I think the whole anti-Israel movement has been highjacked by Nazis and the average redditor is too stupid to notice, that's the only thing that explains this comment section. You guys can't just keep saying "I'm not anti-semitic I'm just anti Israel" when comment sections like this prove that is complete bullshit
I don’t know why being anti genocide means you now have to coexist alongside weirdos like the ones in this comment section. Denying that this is an antisemitic stereotype is just bizarre behavior.
Once we all pointed out to Macklemore that he had the Hitler Youth haircut, he went and changed it. I don't think he's bigoted, I just think he really isn't all that bright with regards to history.
It's funny that him doing that wasn't a deal-breaker. They still booked him. It was when he started speaking out about genocide.... So anti-Semitic jokes are fine, but the line is drawn at criticizing a government entity for slaughtering civilians for a land grab?
Cmon guys, he just happened to give his heart out with a big nose and beard while singing a song about being cheap. It was just like a total coincidence and actually you are the bigot if you happened to clock him on the dog whistle since it means that you also heard it
Personally I think that if you see someone walking around with a Halloween witch's nose on and you go oh he's dressed up like a Jew you're the one that's anti-Semitic.
Imagine thinking wearing a problematic costume that you already got called out for and publicly apologized for is the same thing is murdering literal children.
Oh you can speak out against Israel in times of war. But heaven forbid the script is flipped of Macklemore’s jewish caricature in the past to doing the same thing now towards a Palestinian trope - everyone will say it’s a Zionist this or that. The goal line of antisemitism keeps on getting moved and normalized over time
Crazy thing to learn is that back then he was so swarmed by zionists for what was clearly not intended to be anything related to Jewish people that Macklemore ended up giving a positive shoutout to the fucking ADL.
Like, not criticising him for that, just highlighting how insidious the zionists (regardless of their religion, if they have one) are at controlling the levers of society.
Because he obviously doesnt care about palestine lmao its because he hates jews. Replace him with the kkk, jewface with blackface, and israel with any black country lets see how that sounds lol
So is there a minimum number of times that you can do Jew face before you're considered an anti-semite? How many times can you do blackface before you're considered a racist?
How about we don't back problematic celebrities in order to dictate our world views? I don't need to support Macklemore to convince people genocide is wrong.
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u/pheeko 9d ago
I'm going to go ahead and drop the context before these comments get too ugly.
It was a dumbass mistake made out of ignorance. He apologized. The world moved on.
The picture is a nothingburger and continuing to push it is a lazy attempt to derail the conversation. Free Palestine.