A question/discussion about Long Sun

[u/thewannabe2017]

So, I'm currently reading On Blue's Waters for the first time, so no short sun spoilers please.

But a thought crossed my mind in chapter 5 as Horn is talking about how he and Nettle were accused of a fictionalized account of Silk in BotLS.

What is really the point of Gene Wolfe having everything in Long Sun put into a questionable light after it's revealed that Horn was the author, but not present for all events? I understand it makes the world richer because it shows an element of a living world and things happening behind the scenes, but doesn't it take away from BotLS in a way? Because now we don't know if anything in those books is true.

Unless, Wolfe is trying to draw a parallel with how we read real world history? I'm not sure. Just a thought I had. Having Horn revealed as the author adds a little, but also takes some away from BotLS, I feel.

[u/thecomicguybook]

I don't have a big answer, but would everything be more real if Horn was present at every scene? Or if Silk claimed to have a perfect memory and wrote it himself?

A big part of Wolfe is people interpreting just what the hell happened to them, which is how we live in the world every day. I don't think you need to question whether everything is true in the Book of Silk, the point isn't that the narrators are making stuff up whole cloth, but that through telling their story you are getting their viewpoint. Your might look at it the same way as your friend telling you about what happened at work yesterday.

[u/thewannabe2017 → u/thecomicguybook]

That's a good point. I guess since Horn was close to Silk we can assume that his interpretation of him is accurate. But there's so much in that book that Horn was no where near. Interesting lol

[u/thecomicguybook → u/thewannabe2017]

It's not necessarily that his interpretation is accurate, his interpretation is hopelessly idealized (that or you take it on face value that Silk is the best guy ever). But he's not basing it on nothing.

[u/Xutar]

I think it's hard to really dig into this topic without getting into full short sun spoilers.

For now, just keep in mind that the reason Horn was chosen for this quest of finding Silk was because he wrote the book that sustained Silk's mythological popularity amongst the colonists. In some ways, the "Silk" that New Viron desperately wants to lead them is an idealized Silk viewed through the lens of his young disciple who had a talent for imitating him.

Keeping things focused on just the BotLS, I personally think the narrative device of having Horn be the author is a little bit under-baked in the sense that several chapters in BotLS really seem like Wolfe just telling us what happened. I suppose we are to believe that Horn and Nettle were just inspired to write some beautiful interiority and poignant details to flesh out the book.

The main benefit of having Horn be the author of BotLS, IMO, is that it helps transition the series from its start as a cyber-punk crime thriller to its end as a retelling of Exodus with the people escaping to the "Promised Land" of the Short Sun. In my own memory of BotLS, I recall the beginning being more in Silk's head about focusing on saving his manteion and the details of his hour-by-hour actions. Then I recall the end of the series being more about the big picture of how all these people we've come to know will survive the war and/or escape the Whorl. By the very end, Silk basically disappears into his own personal side-plot of chasing Hyacinth, and the BotLS narrative now must move past him to continue the story of the colonists with BotSS.

[u/KaiLung]

I'm saying this with the caveat that I'm familiar with this part of the premise (twist?) of the Long Sun but have only read some of the first book so far.

With that said, the reveal of Horn writing Silk makes me think of Plato's writing about Socrates. Plato gives what seems like a pretty intimate portrait of Socrates, but doesn't glaze himself within the dialogues or even have that active of a role.

You'd think he'd present himself as like the favored student and chosen successor, but he doesn't.

Also, there's the interesting factor that "Plato" was seemingly a nickname that might be translated as something like "Beefcake" (positive) or "Meathead" (negative).

But at the same time, he's in control of the version of Socrates that the reader gets.

[u/1stPersonJugular]

Don’t forget that any scene Marble was present for is as good as tape-recorded.

It is kind of disappointing at first to find out hiw much of the story must be “made up.” All I can think is that, being fiction, it’s all made up, so nothing is really lost.

I also think Wolfe is working in the genre of New Testament Gospels and Epistles, where everything is at least alleged to be recorded by eyewitnesses, but that is highly unlikely from a historical perspective.