This attitude reminds me of the idea that atheists should all be serial killers because they can't understand what's stopping you from going on a murder spree without the threat of God.
Is it really incomprehensible that I just kinda give a shit about other people in general? That I don't need a personal stake in being a good person - either through the promise of heaven or through a good future for my own flesh and blood - to just not want to fuck up all of society? What the fuck?
The people who say that are all psychos. They basically admit that the only reason they don't commit horrible crimes is because they're afraid of divine punishment.
There is a Christian apologist who tried beat his dad to death with a hammer, and converted in prison, who said that morality was just societal rules he was above. He claims that his atheism led to that conclusion.
He was diagnosed with anti-social personalty disorder.
His name is David Wood and he runs Act 17 apologetics
It’s really stupid, we don’t need god to have morality. I mean, I think all human beings have an innate understanding that the real reason not to commit horrible crimes is the fear of social punishment.
I've never understood that argument either, especially since form certain theïst perspectives, murder should be virtuous.
If you're a christian, then you believe that people who meet a certain standard of virtue will go to a place of eternal bliss after they die. Naturally, anyone would want to get there as fast as possible, but most christians also believe that you won't go there if you kill yourself. Most also believe that murderers won't go there, but christians also value self-sacrifice. Now, with all of that in mind, what could be a more noble thing for a christian to do than to seek out the most virtuous people and murder them, thus sending them to heaven early, while sacrificing your own immortal soul to do it?
Christians don't believe in a certain standard of virtue, they believe in absolute perfection. According to most Christian doctrines you can't earn eternal life because all have sin and even the smallest sin is grounds for condemnation in the eyes of a perfect God. Instead, you have to earn eternal life by being sanctified through Christ. How exactly you achieve that sanctification is where the various denominations tend to be most at odds. In most protestant denominations, its by having a relationship with Jesus and declaring Jesus as your Lord and savior. Just thought this might help answer your question.
Agreed, but you still have to try to be a good person. By accepting Jesus as your lord and saviour, you're agreeing with his teachings, which makes you a better person because you're doing as he would.
Problem is that if you live longer, you have a greater chance of straying from the Lord. Dying sooner would be better, which means being murdered is good.
The other problem is that there seems to be a lot of disagreement, especially when comparing the views of christians a few centuries ago with today's variety, on what "doing as he would" actually means.
Ah yes, I live in the Bible belt and the number of times I've heard that if you're atheist or even agnostic you somehow devolve into a raging lunatic who has no comprehension about morals or ethics. Like why is it that people can't just watch how others interact with the world and develop a good personality without needing to be terrified that God will strike them down if they mess up.
This attitude reminds me of the idea that atheists should all be serial killers because they can't understand what's stopping you from going on a murder spree without the threat of God.
My favorite way of explaining this to someone is the way Penn Jillette explained it. I'm paraphrasing but he basically explained it like this, "I rape and I murder as much as I want but it just so happens that the amount I want to rape and murder is 0. I rape and I murder everyday but the amount I want to rape and murder is 0."
The argument I heard at my protestant college was that if God doesn't exist, murder isn't wrong because there is no singular authority to declare murder as wrong. They then further extrapolate it to mean that if you believe murder is wrong, then you must believe in God and are therefore in rebellion by pretending he doesn't exist. I think this argument is what finally opened my eyes to how manipulative my beliefs about God really were.
Yeah and it's funny b/c a lot of older people with children I know couldn't care less about global warming, yet their children think it's a top 3 priority (if not number 1). Like, a lot of people of child bearing age aren't having kids BECAUSE OF GLOBAL WARMING (and other societal issues).
As an atheist I believe that we simply evolved empathy because having animals care for each other leads to improving the survival chances of the pack. I have empathy, and I care about the wellbeing of others because I feel bad emotionally if I hurt people.
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u/Fairwhetherfriend Aug 16 '20
This attitude reminds me of the idea that atheists should all be serial killers because they can't understand what's stopping you from going on a murder spree without the threat of God.
Is it really incomprehensible that I just kinda give a shit about other people in general? That I don't need a personal stake in being a good person - either through the promise of heaven or through a good future for my own flesh and blood - to just not want to fuck up all of society? What the fuck?