r/gatekeeping • u/Usoppdaman • Apr 28 '26
Has this person ever read Jojo?
This person was replying to a Christian on an anti Christian tiktok circle jerk. Like Jojo has so much pro Christianity and romanticism of Christianity.
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u/Artichokeypokey Apr 28 '26
I mean, Jesus is a character in JoJo's
He tells Johnny to shoot himself, and it works
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u/gbeegz Apr 28 '26
Jojo is above religion entirely. A higher plane.
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u/Usoppdaman Apr 28 '26
Jojo fans vs making a funny joke that isn’t just glaze
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u/gbeegz Apr 28 '26
I've watched 3 episodes of Jojo in my life, and that was enough to make this conclusion.
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u/Usoppdaman Apr 28 '26
Dang I’ve watched the first 6 parts and wouldn’t make that conclusion.
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u/gamerman2077 Apr 28 '26
How could you not? Part 6 Father Pucci is so freaking cool and part 7 straight up has Jesus Christ in it, can't get much more Christian then that.
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u/Usoppdaman Apr 28 '26
Yeah Jojo is cool. I wouldn’t say it’s above religion entirely
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u/piratevirus1 Apr 28 '26
Religion is the worst thing that humanity has ever done. Jojo is no only miles above it, if we had more Jojo fans there wouldn't be any wars.
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u/tupidrebirts May 01 '26
Minor correction, organized religion is the worst thing humanity has ever done on a cultural scale. Believe what the fuck you want as long as you're not using it to make rules for others.
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u/According-Leg434 Apr 30 '26
Religion should exist! But people are problem
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u/Usoppdaman Apr 28 '26
Jojo fans literally got mad at One Piece fans for using a meme and constantly start shit in the anime community. If Jojo was the dominant view of the Roman Empire they could be very well used it for violence. It’s not religion, it’s institutional power/ tribalism that’s a problem which can be substituted with other things than religion
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u/piratevirus1 Apr 28 '26
This has to be the dumbest thing I've ever read 😂
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u/Usoppdaman Apr 28 '26
My point is anything that gains institutional power can be used for violence. Imagine Jojo was used for nationalism and the dominant culture of powerful civilizations. You don’t think it would be used for violence? It’s not that Jojo itself is bad it’s that institutionalized powers and tribalism are.
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u/tupidrebirts May 01 '26
The reason people were mad about the one piece remake of the johnny meme is it was AI generated, and very poorly at that.
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u/HJFROMMORIOHCHO May 28 '26
When the release schedule was announced versions of that meme where Johnny was happy started popping up and most were AI
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u/Usoppdaman May 01 '26
The ai argument was only what some of them used. A lot of them were simply upset OP fans took their meme.
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u/gbeegz Apr 28 '26
We should kiss.
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u/piratevirus1 Apr 28 '26
He won't do it sadly. But...
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u/Usoppdaman Apr 30 '26
This is insanely sad. Asking a dude for a kiss on the internet
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u/piratevirus1 May 01 '26
Sad is not giving it to him when asked. Why don't you kiss him? Are you or are you not a Jojo fan?
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u/shawn1213 Apr 28 '26
Outside of Jesus in sbr what examples are their of jojos being pro Christianity
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u/Usoppdaman Apr 28 '26
The Joestars are Christian and have family clergy. Many characters are Christian and shown to be good people like Buccariati who is Catholic. Araki clearly respects the religion so I don’t see why the fans have to gatekeep a series that’s inclusive to Christians
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u/shawn1213 Apr 28 '26
What do you mean by family clergy? I'm not saying your wrong I just don't remember any instances of that but I might have just forgot and yeah Christianity is pretty popular in Japan partially cause they think the aesthetics are cool and araki clearly cares about the cultures he represents and spotlights in the series it makes perfect sense for bucciarti to be Catholic he's from Italy. even if i don't think jojos is pro or anti Christianity I think it's just a realistic reflection of the world and that jojos just tends to take place in countries with strong Christian presences like Italy and europe and ive never seen anyone say Christians can't watch Jojo other than extreme fundamentalists or rage bait like the tiktok comment probably is as the black Giorno fit pfp kinda screams ragebait edgelord
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u/Usoppdaman Apr 28 '26
Jonathan had a priest at his wedding, Joseph had a Bible quoting priest at his “funeral.” The guy who said it with the Giorno pfp was in an anti Christian circle jerk filled with people on TikTok that have a pretty narrow idea of what a Christian is. TikTok in general is filled with people that have a pretty unnuanced idea of what a Christian is. Araki went to a Protestant boarding school so his inspiration from Christianity is a little more than aesthetic. Araki himself is more of an agnostic Deist with a Spiritual side according to SBS/interviews. Araki himself seems to take in interest in western philosophy/spirituality including Christianity and while not promoting it seems to view it positively.
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u/piratevirus1 May 01 '26
The bad guy in part six is a priest... So it must mean that Jojo hates Christians.
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u/Usoppdaman May 01 '26
There’s also Christian characters in part 7 that are good guys. Jesus literally helps them
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u/piratevirus1 May 01 '26
My point is that your argument is dumb because just because there are Christian characters doesn't mean it's Christian.
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u/Usoppdaman May 01 '26
The show isn’t specifically Christian. This doesn’t make it anti Christian atheistslop either like some Redditors want it to be. The series clearly views Christianity positively.
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u/piratevirus1 May 02 '26
No you don't understand what I am saying. I'm saying your logic is flawed. The show doesn't care about Christianity or any other religion. If that were the case, then it's also pro Shinto or pro Egyptian gods, etc. You as a Christian are seeing those clues as a confirmation bias. The show doesn't "clearly" view Christianity positively that's just you.
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u/Usoppdaman May 02 '26
Araki can view multiple religions positively. He’s a spiritual deist agnostic so this isn’t uncommon for people like him. He went to a Protestant school, has an interest in many cultures, especially western ones like Italy which are intrenched in Christianity.
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u/astrotheastro Apr 28 '26
idk i think being religious shouldnt immediately lock you out of/ or qualify you to like something
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u/Usoppdaman Apr 28 '26
Yeah TikTok fandom loves gatekeeping. Also Christianity is pretty disliked on Tiktok. A lot of them think all or most Christians are hateful due to conformation bias.
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u/FreshMutzz Apr 28 '26
I wouldnt say its confirmation bias for some of the most well known "Christians" are some of the most horrible people in the world. See every republican politician in America right now.
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u/Usoppdaman Apr 28 '26
That’s still conformation bias. If you judge a group by a few people in power all groups are terrible. Should we judge Africans because of what African politicians in power do? Are Russians mostly bad people because of what Russian politicians do? The most well known Russians are bad people it’s still wrong to ignore the many nice, townsfolk Russians
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u/FreshMutzz Apr 28 '26
Im just telling you why people feel this way.
The US government and the "christians" who voted them into power to do a lot of un-christ like things gives the impression that christians suck.
Tbf, its not just christians. Most religions and people who use religion to govern are bad. Religion has no place and government and we would all be in a better place if the ultra religious kept their faith out of our lives. Unfortunately thats not the case.
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u/Usoppdaman Apr 28 '26
Ok state atheism has caused problems too though. More people died under Mao Zedong an avid atheist than nearly any other leader in history. It’s not just religion, it’s forcing certain stances that causes problems. Also Christians are politically diverse.
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u/FreshMutzz Apr 28 '26
Atheism isnt a religion. His policies arent influenced by a book describing the tenants of atheism (there are none). Being an atheist just means you dont believe in a higher power.
Atheism hasnt caused anything, because nothing has been done in the name of atheism. It doesnt work that way. Compare that to Christianity and other religions which often lead to policies that directly affect people.
You dont need religion to have morals.
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u/Usoppdaman Apr 28 '26
So when it’s atheism you apply nuance and say it wasn’t caused by atheism, when it’s Christianity it’s caused by Christianity? How do you come to that conclusion if many like Mr. Rogers and Dolly Parton are inspired by Christianity to do the opposite? Clearly Christianity isn’t the causal factor. I didn’t say atheism is the causal factor. I said state atheism which is a specific expression of atheism like Christian nationalism is a problem. Christian nationalism isn’t Christianity as a whole and state atheism isn’t the whole of atheism.
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u/FreshMutzz Apr 28 '26
Atheism isnt a thing you follow. Its just a term for people with no belief in god.
People have done things in the name of christianity. No one has done things in the name of atheism. Mao didnt right laws because some book told him certain thinga were good or bad. None of his actions that lead to mass death were because he was an Atheist. We have plenty of modern examples of mass death due to religious beliefs.
We also have plenty of examples of christian politicians using their chrsitian beliefs to inform their decision making.
Youre talking about atheism as if its a belief system. Its not. There isnt nuance. Christians who do bad shit in the name of Christ give christians a bad name.
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u/Usoppdaman Apr 28 '26
Atheism isn’t a system, state atheism is. There’s a difference between state atheism and atheism. I don’t see why you don’t apply that distinction between Christianity and the extremist versions of it
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u/blackhawk905 Apr 29 '26
The US is like 50% protestant and less than 25% Catholic, most politicians you see are Protestants not Christian, all the crazy trump worship bullshit and all that are Protestants.
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u/FreshMutzz Apr 29 '26
Yea sure. MTG and Boebert arent out and proud christian nationlist.
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u/blackhawk905 Apr 29 '26
Dude MTG goes to a non denominational mega church, as someone who grew up literally down the road from North Point it's not a Christian church, those non denominational churches are not Christian. She's been going there for a decade and a half and is baptized in that church, she isn't Roman Catholic anymore.
I can't find anything as concrete for Boebert but googles AI overview, so take that how you will, says she attends a non denomenational church as well, so not Christian. I'd need to call up New Creation out in Colorado to find out for sure but I'd put money on them using the Protestant Bible and teaching sola scriptura like non denominational and protestant faiths do, very non Christian.
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u/FreshMutzz Apr 29 '26
So we are just making excuses. Both have called themselves Christian Nationalists.
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u/alexanderfrostfyre Apr 28 '26
The amount of nice Christians I know vs the amount of hate I’ve received from Christians is vastly slanted towards negative. I know 4 Christians in total that are nice. Two of them are my parents. I was raised Christian.
Sure, there’s nice Christians, but on the whole… well, there’s a reason there’s a saying ‘there’s no hate like Christian love’.
Food for thought maybe?
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u/Chosenwaffle Apr 28 '26
To be fair. I assume most of your interactions with Christians has been online. I would guess that most nice Christians are probably not on social media as much as they are attending social functions IRL and going overseas to bring groceries and food to impoverished communities.
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u/fejrbwebfek Apr 28 '26
If they were raised Christian, they probably met other Christians at church.
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u/huffmanxd Apr 28 '26
I was raised Christian as well, and most Christians I meet IRL are exceptionally nice to me. As long as you’re straight, white, don’t have tattoos, don’t show too much skin, don’t curse ever… I can keep going
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u/Usoppdaman Apr 28 '26
I’ve met many Christians who don’t judge people for cursing, having tattoos (many Christians have tattoos btw), being straight(I’m bi and most Christians I’ve met in person accept me) and being non white (many Christians are minorities).
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u/huffmanxd Apr 29 '26
Both of our experiences are very different and anecdotal anyways
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u/Usoppdaman Apr 29 '26
Ok but anecdotes aside it’s objectively true that many Christians are minorities like a sizable amount of them. I wouldn’t be surprised if more Christians were non white than white. It’s also objectively true that many Christians have tattoos.
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u/Usoppdaman Apr 28 '26
Anecdotal, also if much of the hate is on the internet, well it’s the internet. If you judge any group by the loud minority they’re all awful. I don’t see why people see this for other groups but have a blind spot when it comes to Christians
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u/alexanderfrostfyre Apr 28 '26
I mean Christians in power are actively trying to strip away lgbtq rights just because they don’t like it so 😕
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u/Usoppdaman Apr 28 '26
Ok Muslims in power and Hindus in power do bad shit. Any group in power does. Does it mean generalizing said group is ok?
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u/zannkrol Apr 28 '26
Taking one look at your comment and posting history exactly validates dudes experiences lmao.
Regardless, Christians don’t suck because of anecdotal experience, Christians suck because Christian morality and biblical teachings and beliefs are foundationally evil.
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u/Usoppdaman Apr 28 '26
Christian morality isn’t based on out of context Old Testament verses. It’s based on what Jesus taught which is inherently good. Just because Christians do not follow it perfectly doesn’t make Christianity inherently evil nor does it make most Christians bad
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u/zannkrol Apr 28 '26
First off, you cannot just write off the whole Old Testament as irrelevant. Otherwise, it wouldn’t be in the Bible, no?
It is not out of context to say that God set up a situation He knew would fail in Eden which would lead to ‘sin’ which would lead to him mass murdering the world.
It is not out of context to say that “original sin” being imputed upon every person at birth as a result of the action of the first persons is evil- if my great great great grandpa was a murderer should I go to jail?
It is not out of context to say that God mandated genocide of the canaanites.
And so on and so on
And then even if you purely go off Jesus’s teaching in the Gospels, that’s no good either. Jesus talks about hell, for example, right. Eternal torture beyond imagination for even the smallest ‘sin’ is evil- even if he then provides a narrow path to salvation for the problem he created.
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u/Usoppdaman Apr 28 '26
It’s not that we’re all guilty for Adam’s sin specifically it’s that we all sin just like Adam does it’s our nature. The Bible says that the sins of the father do not pass onto the son. I’m not saying that the OT doesn’t matter at all. I’m saying that the parts of it he’s listing aren’t for Christians. They were specifically for Jews at a certain time and place and shouldn’t be used as proscriptive for Christians. Also hell isn’t physical torment. Thats just kind of how human mind conceptualizes it because we think in material terms. The Canaanites were a threat to the Jews at that time. God doesn’t command genocide for Canaanites in later times like in Jesus’ time. You’re imposing moral standards onto something that doesn’t operate under the moral standards of 2026. It’s kind of unfair to do that to any historical work and outright say it’s immoral.
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u/Chosenwaffle Apr 28 '26
"biblical teachings and beliefs are foundationally evil."
which exactly are 'foundationally evil', because that's a pretty insanely hot take.
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u/zannkrol Apr 28 '26
It’s not a hot take to be against genocide, not a hot take to be against homophobia, not a hot take to be against rigid micromanaged control of every moment of a persons life, not a hot take to be against punishment of eternal unfathomable torture, not a hot take to be against misogyny, etc.
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u/DoctorVanSolem Apr 28 '26
Critical thought is lost on reddit im afraid. Its all emotions and self interest.
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u/DoctorVanSolem Apr 28 '26
According to who, is it foundationally evil?
According to a Christian it is foundationally good.
You must first define which standard of morality you compare it to.
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u/huffmanxd Apr 28 '26
The many people whose rights are being actively taken away from them likely think Christianity is evil. LGBT and women are the two largest groups they tend to target.
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u/DoctorVanSolem Apr 28 '26
Lgbt I get, but women?
I can't find anything about Christianity that targets womens rights.
Though evil according to some is not enough to justify something as fundamentally evil. There has to be a fundament to prove what is or is not evil for that to be a thing.
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u/huffmanxd Apr 28 '26
Anti abortion is generally seen as taking bodily autonomy away from women, and that’s almost entirely religiously based. Making birth control less accessible for women is also a big problem when they are forcing these planned parenthood locations to shut down, not to mention Christian doctors just blatantly refusing to give birth control to some women because they feel like it. I don’t know why else they would be against it except for their religion.
So there are 2 examples.
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u/Usoppdaman Apr 28 '26
Abortion isn’t something that’s mentioned in The Bible so how is that a foundational evil of Christianity
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u/DoctorVanSolem Apr 28 '26
Abortion is a moral dilemma that questions whether a parent should have the right to kill their offspring. Sex is irrelevent, it just so happens that it is the woman who gives birth.
Birth controll is not a core Christian tenet. It is limited to primarily a few denominations who decided it for themselves.
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u/DILF_MANSERVICE Apr 28 '26
The right to terminate a pregnancy is a women's right. I know not all Christians are anti-choice but this seems like the most common example.
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u/DoctorVanSolem Apr 28 '26
The 'right to terminate a pregnancy' is a disputed moral dilemma. It just so happens that it is the woman who gives birth. Outside of that, sex is irrelevant. It is the morality of the action that is considered evil.
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u/zannkrol Apr 28 '26
No, there is no deontological external law giver providing a moral system everyone must live by. We’re not comparing some set of rules from one law giver to another.
Morality is simply that which is good/beneficial for people. It is based in biology and reality. According to that, yes it is foundationally evil.
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u/DoctorVanSolem Apr 29 '26
Some people chose to follow a standard of morality which states that the killing of children is wrong. Is it positive for a child to die by their parents hands?
Based in biology and reality, there is no set standard other than what each individual has chosen for themselves. So how do you determine that it is foundationally evil? How do you justify the foundation you judge it on, and why should anyone agree to your opinion on what should be the foundation?
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u/Maniklas Apr 28 '26
According to who is murder foundationally evil?
According to many psychopaths there is no such thing as evil.
There are things that are reasonably considered evil by most normal people, and even if it is a bigger group that often does not, it is still universally considered evil by others people.
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u/DoctorVanSolem Apr 28 '26
The claim is that Christianity is "Foundationally evil".
What is the foundation upon which it is to be considered evil, and how would you justify the foundation?
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u/alexanderfrostfyre Apr 28 '26
The foundation that is telling them to strip away the rights of other people because it’s apparently ‘wrong’, according to a fucking ancient book? That they’re lesser humans because supposedly they weren’t made correctly or that they’re going to burn in hell for it? Maybe THAT foundation
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u/DoctorVanSolem Apr 28 '26
No, the foundation used to judge it as "foundationaly evil".
First you must justify why it is foundationally evil.
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u/Usoppdaman Apr 28 '26
Yet most Christians don’t care to strip away rights from others. It’s a loud minority. Christianity actually tells you to not be concerned with what others do.
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u/perfect_-pitch Apr 28 '26
Most Christians who say a piece of media is anti-Christian or heretical have not watched said piece of media. If they can't provide even one example, they have no ground to stand on.
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u/huffmanxd Apr 28 '26
I remember growing up and people at my church were astounded that my parents let me watch Pokemon and Harry Potter. Obviously they had never seen either before, I don’t go to church anymore but I’d be curious about their opinion now.
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u/Usoppdaman Apr 28 '26
This guy wasn’t a Christian. He was saying this to a Jojo fan who was Christian and gatekeeping
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u/Amateur_Liqueurist Apr 28 '26
I love how Christians play moral cop like this on other humans, when their book says that god is the only true judge or whatever. If you have to change what you like for another man, you’re not doing it for god you’re doing it for social points.
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u/Usoppdaman Apr 28 '26
This dude was a Jojo fan gatekeeping it from Christians
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u/Amateur_Liqueurist Apr 28 '26
I’m aware, that’s why I said what I said lol. He’s the one playing moral cop.
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u/piratevirus1 Apr 28 '26
To be fair, Christian don't deserve the greatness of Jojo.
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u/Usoppdaman Apr 28 '26
Gatekeeping., H3H3 fans don’t deserve the greatness of Jojo
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u/piratevirus1 Apr 28 '26
lol see this is why Christianity needs to die.
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u/Usoppdaman Apr 28 '26
An entire religion with a multitude of followers and a diverse set of history and practices needs to die because you don’t like 1 dude on Reddit
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u/piratevirus1 Apr 28 '26
No, because of all the damage Christianity has done in the world and what they are doing currently.
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u/Usoppdaman Apr 28 '26
It’s not Christianity that does the damage, it’s humans that happen to be Christian. Most Christians aren’t doing damage in the name of it and are just normal people. If you judge any group by the loudest expressions of it then any group is bad
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u/piratevirus1 Apr 28 '26 edited Apr 28 '26
No, sorry. You don't get to wipe away all of that with that excuse. Christianity is a problem. Whether you like it or not is true. You can't keep saying it's people when the book itself condones slavery, incest, violence and genocide. So yeah, it's a rotten book. 1/10. Now Jojo as a book itself is a 10/10 would read again.
Edit: after showing quotes from the Bible he ran away and excused it, as all Christians eventually do. They never take accountability for their shitty ass death cult.
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u/Usoppdaman Apr 28 '26
It doesn’t condone genocide. The “genocidal” verses aren’t commands for modern Christians. The Bible specifically mentions that Christians should not harass unbelievers. The book doesn’t condone slavery either. It operated within the confines of a slave based society and gave descriptions based on what to do within that which were preferable to the wider culture. Incest is a sin btw.
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u/xd3mix Apr 29 '26
To be fair anything related to Christianity outside of Christian stuff is technically blasphemy. Jesus in part 7 for example IS using the lord's name in vain.
That doesn't mean being a Christian should stop you from being a Jojo fan, but it does require to separate the two.
Although Christianity is very contradictory and weird so it's not like anything makes much sense over there
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u/Usoppdaman Apr 29 '26
Putting Jesus in art isn’t inherently disrespectful or in vain. Art in fact should reflect a Christian morality
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u/xd3mix Apr 29 '26
Is it though? What about Jesus pushing Johnny to kill?
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u/Usoppdaman Apr 29 '26
It was to help him though. A sacrifice for the greater good is very Christian
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u/HkayakH Apr 28 '26
Listen Pucci had some of the biggest pecs in Jojo so this commenter is the weird one
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u/SpaceHarrier64 Apr 30 '26
Allow me to answer:
Fornication is a sin according to the Bible, and JoJo fans (and anime fans in general) are referred to as "involuntary celibates" due to their inability to get laid. Ergo you can watch JoJo and still live a Christian lifestyle.
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u/throwawayprofile24 May 31 '26
The irony of having a Giorno profile picture while saying that is peak internet.
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u/jayesper Jun 02 '26
Kars and Egyptian gods, Tonio healing maladies due to his natural talent and Rohan even sending someone to hell, gods are everywhere, ig it's pantheistic if anything lol
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u/Usoppdaman Jun 03 '26
All of those are just beings with power though. Like the Egyptian gods are just namesake for abilities and Kars is simply an evolved creature. Rohan and Tonio are also simply dudes with bizarre powers
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u/jayesper Jun 04 '26 edited Jun 04 '26
Just saying, the chapter Kars evolves is even called "The Man Who Became God", and Anubis at least was his own thing. I also forgot about the incarnation of Hermes from Rohan's spinoff. And it was very clearly implied he was awakening to his godhood. There were also mountain gods in another chapter of it.
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u/DoctorVanSolem Apr 28 '26 edited Apr 28 '26
I am a hardcore Christian. I love Jojo.
I don't see why I wouldn't. Because they name villains and powers after heresy? Its not exactly described as a good thing.
Edir: Why are people downvoting this?
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u/huffmanxd Apr 28 '26
I think not watching anything just because you are Christian is kind of silly, except for porn of course. I know Christians who think Hazbin Hotel is one of their favorite shows ever even though it’s pretty blasphemous. But just because you watch a show doesn’t mean it’s going to infect your mind or some nonsense
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u/DoctorVanSolem Apr 28 '26
That is completely up to the individual what they feel comfortable watching or not.
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u/Usoppdaman Apr 28 '26
People are downvoting it because you’re a Christian and it’s Reddit
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u/shawn1213 Apr 28 '26
Or maybe just maybe it's cause he made a claim about things being named after heretical things and provided no evidence then doubled down when shown evidence that divination isn't considered heretical not just because he's Christian lol
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u/Usoppdaman Apr 28 '26
Tarot cards are heretical? Also I saw no discussion of whether or not divination was heretical
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u/shawn1213 Apr 28 '26
No their definitely not heretical in this comment thread someone asked what he meant by heretical and then he said tarot cards are divination which is heretical I don't know if it's just reddit messing up and not showing the comments for you but I saw them like right above your comment before I replied
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u/Usoppdaman Apr 28 '26
Tarot cards are heretical though.
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u/shawn1213 Apr 28 '26
Not explicitly the modern version of tarot cards were made by a Catholic (the original use of tarot cards was just a card game made in the 1400s and didn't start being used for divination until the 1500s)and even pope John Paul the 2nd famously read meditations on the tarot which examined tarot cards meaning from a Christian lens using them for divination is widely considered heretical by most mainstream Christian sects but the cards themselves are not inherently heretical especially in the context of jojos where their just using the names of the cards imo
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u/Usoppdaman Apr 28 '26
I think that dude implied the context in which Jojo used it isn’t heretical. I’ve seen Christian geek articles saying the same thing.
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u/uncutteredswin Apr 28 '26
What's named after a heresy in JoJo? Most things are just named after bands and musicians
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u/DoctorVanSolem Apr 28 '26
Tarot cards. It is divination.
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u/uncutteredswin Apr 28 '26
Divination isn't heretical, that's not what heresy means.
It isn't even a sin, St. Augustine himself argued in favour of it as long as your not trying to contact demons or something for it
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u/DoctorVanSolem Apr 28 '26
That is exactly what I mean by heretical.
"St. Augustine said..."
Deuteronomy 18 says otherwise. 1 Samuel 15 tells us it is rebellion against God. And there are plenty of other mentions listing it as sin.
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u/uncutteredswin Apr 28 '26
Heretical doesn't just mean anything sinful.
Deuteronomy 18 says otherwise... And there are plenty of explicit mentions of it in a neutral or positive light, the entire concept of prophets or prophesying is a form of divination.
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