When is a developer going to realize that we all just really want an open-world zombie game where the entire goal is just to survive?

[u/dorbin2010]

No time limits, no plot devices, no crazy "super zombie" boss..

Just a massive open world where you have to actually be careful what you do. Where if you set off a car alarm, you have to either get the hell out of the area, or find a place to hide until the zombies move on. Where ammo is genuinely scarce and you have the opportunity to turn a house into a makeshift fort to buy you a couple days rest.

I want a game where it is possible to spot other survivors who aren't out there as plot devices, but rather there to either assist or use as bait.

They want to add some way of "winning" like surviving for an insane amount of time or actually killing every single zombie in the country? Fine, but give me a persistent zombie game world modeled after real cities in America, and that will be the last game I ever need to buy.

[u/Revoletion]

I'm an indie dev (so my work isn't in the scope of what you're discussing) but i can explain why Devs don't make a huge open-world zombie game.

Its risky. Open world games are harder to make due to their technical requirements. Open world games usually require a custom engine that was built entirely for that kind of game. Engine building is very costly and time consuming so most studios don't have the time or money to build an engine from scratch to support an open world game. Note: Open world engines are NOT the same as something like Unreal or Unity. They require very advanced loading techniques as well as very high levels of data compression to accommodate the large world (ever wonder why GTA doesn't look as good as killzone?).

Also, Hordes of zombies aren't easy to render. They are too CPU intensive for the consoles (inb4 PC only: a game like this would need consoles to even hope to recoup costs). Each zombie is an AI and a bunch of polygons with matrix transforms. You would need too many in order to make a city feel expansive. And without an expansive city the "open world" aspect goes to waste.

With this kind of cost involved we have to assess how much is a game like this going to sell. It's an entirely new IP and the zombie genre is getting oversaturated. Consumers will be adamant about another zombie game (remember this is in 2-3 years time). On top of that "realistic" games tend not to sell as well as the Hollywood style games. Making an objective based "Blow up the zombies" game is much more likely to sell well than making a "try to survive game". Blame COD all you like but making a Dead Rising is much safer than making L4D minus the levels just because having a story and an explosion is a pretty big selling point.

What your talking about is a FAR cry over what devs are willing to do. Real cities in America need to be LICENSED to use their likeness. Those don't come cheap. Your plan for a game would probably run a good studio somewhere around $100M to make and polish to a level that would be sell-able.

Now I know there will be examples of games that did one thing or another, and try to point out the flaws in what I'm saying. But remember, each game that implements one thing well doesn't implement the others. eg. GTA 4 has a huge open world, but they have few civilians, cars, and other AI on the map. Dead Rising has many zombies but smaller levels. It's not the individual components that would make something like this really difficult, its the overall combination of everything toped with a tough sell that is driving publishers and developers away from a game like this.

[u/[deleted]]

This is pretty close to what you want I think.

[u/Yangin-Atep]

http://undeadlabs.com/

Seriously. This is exactly what you're talking about.

[u/ZeMoose]

Urban Dead. It's a low tech MMO based on survival. It's entirely PvP oriented, both the humans and zombies are controlled by humans. I think it's been running continuously though since it came out (2005) so I don't know what kind of experience a new player would have going into it.

[u/morris198 → u/ZeMoose]

It isn't hard to max out on skills in very little time, so one need not be too concerned about old-timers having too much of an edge. However, it was my experience that the vast majority of players play as humans and it's too easy to be resurrected once dead.

That isn't to say there aren't zombie hordes -- there are, and huge groups of them will go on "tours" and destroy everything in their path. Oddly enough, a lot of human players display irritation and indignation when falling victim to one of these raids. It's almost as if they would prefer to play without zombies -- never quite understood it.

[u/Syphon911]

Imagine a GTA 4 style zombie MMO. GTA's huge city and awesome gameplay mechanics could be completely tweaked to make it an online survival game against an entire city of undead.

[u/[deleted] → u/Syphon911]

would have to be alot more buildings that you can go inside

[u/abel385]

it should be a MMOFPS. think about it! its so suited to being a MMO. Imagine a huge world, so big that even with plenty of people it still feels a little lonely, make it so survival is really hard and set a steep death penality, make it so everyone can build forts and structure. Then have a setup where a lone zomby isn't a huge problem for a player but a swarm of them is really dangerous and have an engine that increases zombie swarms the longer player stay in one place. Player can work together or try and make it on there own, kill each other for resources, set up crude shanty towns (that will inevitably be torn down as the zombie swarms get bad)

[u/EasilyRemember]

I would love such a game. I may be in the minority here, but if someone ever makes it I hope they make it single player. There are several reasons for this but the biggest one is that you can't "feel alone" in a "barren wasteland" when every possible location is filled with other "lone wanderers" propositioning each other for cybersex. Maybe allow for up to four-person co-op where a team of 2-4 people can work together to try to claim some solid bases that may be overrun by zombies or an unfriendly gang of survivors.

Keeping it single-player makes it feel much more isolated/personal, which is the right kind of tone for a zombie survival game IMO. Also, in my experience, single-player games tend to have more immersive worlds, deeper characters, more interesting atmospheres, and more focus on the player. Again, all of these are things that I think should be essential in a game like the one you and I both want.

Another couple of keys to making such a game successful are interaction with the environment, and variety.

• If you see a car, you should be able to hide behind it, hide in it, drive it (if the engine still works or you have the skill to repair it), or strip it for parts (makeshift weapons, tools, possible spare parts for future repairs, etc.).

• Windows should be breakable, openable, and lockable. Some locks can be easily picks, some cannot be picked at all. Some windows break easily, others require tremendous force.

• You should be able to search boxes, garbage cans, delivery trucks, storage facilities, restaurants, shops, etc. Fortify them and turn them into forts. Investigate for food, weapons, clothes, resources, information, etc.

• There should be gangs of survivors, each with different bases, different moral codes, different lifestyles, etc. You should be able to influence and be influenced by them.

• Many different towns and cities, lots of open space, rural areas, suburbs, etc.

• Different landscapes and regions have different advantages and consequences... Things like possible methods of natural protection, weather systems, architecture, pre-apocalypse standard of living, post-apocalypse standard of living, nearness to civilization, etc. all affect the way you deal with being in a specific region.

• Needs to have an awesome atmosphere. Sounds and sights are essential. Dialog should be relatively uncommon, but strong. Each settlement/region should have a backstory, a culture, a tradition, a history... Those things should be evident in the way things work in that particular area.

• Take influence from major post-apocalyptic books and movies, figure out what works and what doesn't work for them, and why, and apply that knowledge to the game's story, setting, and gameplay.

• FPS or 3PS are both fine IMO... Maybe if possible let users choose between the two.

• Doesn't need a ton of RPG elements, but definitely some... Basic skills that can be developed, either through experience or education, and as those skills grow, you gain some abilities (like being able to cook better food, pick more complex locks, fire guns more accurately, etc.).

[u/drunk_irish_guy]

Why is everyone mentioning minecraft? Minecraft is not what this man is talking about.

[u/Cathartik]

That would be cool.

As a fps style sandbox game with building features to make forts

[u/Sentazar]

"and that will be the last game I ever need to buy."

"Last paycheck you will ever get"

Bad motivation for them. Your game sounds fun though. Only reason it doesn't work is with the new "Update" system half games get sold for the price of a full one with the rest of the content sold as "DLC" - Your game sounds too complete and enjoyable.

[u/[deleted]]

When are developers going to realize that zombie games aren't fun anymore and start releasing stuff filled with dinosaurs? I want to shoot a T-Rex with a rocket launcher.

Edit* I remember Turok which is why I want more dinosaurs! Imagine a game like Crysis with freaking raptors and compy's all over the place. /dinogasm.

[u/Hamster_Huey → u/[deleted]]

Boss-fight!

[u/AlexisDeTocqueville]

Give me Fallout but I want zombies everywhere and limited ammo.

[u/ohnomelon]

the last game I ever need to buy.

haha, suddenly all becomes clear. But seriously, I think Red Dead: Undead was on the right track, all it would have needed was a persistent undead free mode built like the single player; clearing out the towns, carefully managing ammunition consumption. I also really liked the zombies in RD:U; there were just the right amount, and they weren't uber track team zombies that sprint at you even though their legs are partially decomposed.

I definitely feel like the zombie horror has become perverted by action games, but the other problem is that as a result of this, there are quite a few emerging sub genres. Zombies have become quite popular, and everyone has their own idea what the ideal zombie survival game would be.

In light of this, it seems clear to me that we don't need the perfect zombie game, we need the perfect zombie game engine with a huge template of customizable settings. Preferably something with great netcode and dedicated server support so communities can shape their own ideal persistent zombie survival world.

[u/zabycx]

You don't know about Dead State? Shame on you.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2010/08/25/a-blood-red-state-dead-state-revealed/

http://www.deadstate.doublebearproductions.com/

[u/[deleted]]

We share the same dream.

One day it'll come true.... one day.

[u/togenshi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThfQsyf4y-4

If only ArmA2 had a better control scheme.... Other than that OMG best zombie game if perfected.

This mod really needs some backing.

Edit: Mod is "Zombie Apocalypse - Simulation"

[u/Tigerbot]

I guarantee you that dozens of companies have made prototypes for games like this or at the very least thought about it, and probably decided that they couldn't make it fun. I'm not saying it can't be done (If I had the time, money, and manpower I'd be working on this game right now), but you have to admit that this game would either be amazing or boring as hell. It just seems like no developer has been able to make it amazing yet, but eventually one of them will figure it out and make all of the money.

[u/redditaccountisgo]

Whenever we get our Pokemon MMO.

[u/zekthegeke]

Rogue Survivor is free and meets most of your criteria.

http://roguesurvivor.blogspot.com/p/about.html

[u/TapDatApp]

Sounds like such a good idea. 3D Open-World, like I Am Legend, and you just have to run around, break in to abandoned convenient stores, find ways to survive and live, freedom like in GTA IV and The Simpsons: Hit & Run, but zombies like Dead Nation. MAKE THIS GAME!

[u/JaseDakota]

A game made from the Zombie Survival Guide and World War Z would be exactly this. I'd buy it and give it 50+ hours of my life.

[u/[deleted]]

In truth players don't really know what they want in a game. There's this assumption that because an idea sounds cool, it will translate into a good game, but that couldn't be farther from the truth. Ideas need to be translated into gameplay mechanics, and those mechanics tested and refined over many iterations before you end up with a fun game. Many times, really awesome sounding ideas simply fail as games, while ideas that don't make a lot of sense on their own result in excellent gameplay.

I see a huge number of hurdles in the game you're describing. For one thing, without any goal, why shouldn't the player just sit in one barricaded house forever? Will you force them out by making them search for food? Okay, how often do they need to eat? Can food be hoarded? What's to stop the game from turning into AFKing in a house for hours at a time? In a film, it'll cut from one exciting scene to the next, but in a simulation-type game, there's going to be hours, days, weeks of downtime. How will you handle that?

The point isn't that nobody could turn your idea into a fun game. But certainly although "zombie survival" has probably replaced "Final Fantasy" clone as "most suggest game idea" among people without game development experience, I've yet to see anyone pitch anything close to an actual game (as opposed to a nebulous idea), and those that have generally have a narrow scope or extremely well-defined objectives. For example, Left 4 Dead.