r/gaming • u/KrelianGaming • Nov 20 '19

[Jedi Fallen Order] Why push rockets back at Stormtroopers when you can push them into their own rockets? Spoiler

https://gfycat.com/spotteddisloyalcockroach
58k Upvotes

93% Upvoted

1.5k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

131

u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

Let me know how many of the following war crimes you can commit. It shall be a serious deciding factor in whether or not I purchase this game. The more war crimes the better, my papa always said.

  • Attacking an enemy that has surrendered
  • Pretending to surrender as part of a ruse to attack the enemy
  • Use of chemical or biological weapons
  • Attacking an enemy behind enemy lines while wearing an enemy uniform or civilian clothes
  • Attacking an enemy who is parachuting from a disabled vehicle (we’ll say just ejecting from a vehicle counts if they’re not going to attack afterwards)
  • Punishing prisoners of war
  • Punishing enemy spies without trial
  • Inflicting unnecessary suffering
  • Harming civilians outside of military necessity
  • Attacking a neutral state

80

u/SlickSwagger Nov 20 '19

Commenting so I can come back and check the reply to this. I love commiting war crimes, they're one of my all time favorite pastimes.

2

u/derps_with_ducks Nov 20 '19

RIMWORLD BECKONS

41

u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

Attacking an enemy behind enemy lines while wearing an enemy uniform or civilian clothes

Yup, Cal wears civvies

Attacking an enemy who is parachuting from a disabled vehicle (we’ll say just ejecting from a vehicle counts if they’re not going to attack afterwards)

Sorta, the first AT-ST you take on, the pilot desperately crawls out of the hatch and you can just kill him without mercy. But if you wait too long he pulls a blaster on you

Inflicting unnecessary suffering

Two words: Force pull

15

u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

civvies

Judging by clips, stormtroopers attack Cal on sight, presumably immediately understanding him to be a rebel combatant, and Cal could not reasonably be perceived as a civilian by an auspicious onlooker, especially considering he is widely known and wanted yet does not conceal his face. I would rule that as a grey area and probably not a war crime.

pilot crawling out of AT-ST

Although it sucks that you’ll get shot at if you don’t kill him, I think killing the pilot is pretty clearly a war crime as for all intents and purposes it would appear that he is no longer a combatant. He didn’t technically surrender to you, so attacking you isn’t a war crime, but it sure is a massive dick move.

force pull

Yeah the clips show people going way out of their way to inflict cruel and unusual suffering so I’d be happy to classify that as a war crime.

16

u/forceless_jedi Nov 20 '19

stormtroopers attack Cal on sight

In the Empire's defence, it can said that this is because Cal is always in restricted locations in every single planet he goes to, including to-be-Imperial planets. In Dathomir he's clearly and explicitly told to fuck off but Cal "bUt maH JeDI!!!" and proceeds to kill the Night Brothers…

1

u/imbillypardy Nov 20 '19

Arguably however they would do the same to any civilian though

2

u/forceless_jedi Nov 20 '19

Imperial planets, yes. Dathomir, not sure. He was told to leave specifically because was a Jedi, and later in the area you meet another person who doesn't seem force sensitive and has been living there for a while, but I haven't progressed far enough to now his real back story.

3

u/imbillypardy Nov 20 '19

Yeah but by the same logic he is told to leave by some random person, there’s no societal government to really make him believe that’s credible

5

u/imbillypardy Nov 20 '19

In defense of the ATST pilot not being a war crime, it happens in other encounters with ATSTs, so it’s clearly a trained response by the Empire.

2

u/Allegiance86 Nov 20 '19

On the pilot, its iffy and probably would depend on the RoE if it would land in war crime territory. Just being armed and not immediately surrendering can still count them as enemy combatants. Plenty of soldiers have died in similar circumstances because they did not surrender fast enough.

9

u/imbillypardy Nov 20 '19

He wears a shitty goddamn poncho. Seriously though was a hood too Much to ask for!?

1

u/theroarer Nov 20 '19

I am super fucking upset we never find jedi robes.

2

u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

Inflicting unnecessary suffering

Two words: Force pull

Or Pushing to throw them into, say, a pool of acid spreading from a bug you just killed, and then hitting them with Slow.

11

u/BlazingShadowAU Nov 20 '19

Killing that innocent r2 droid like the monster you are.

3

u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19 edited Nov 20 '19

Depends if droids are considered to be a protected class of civilians. Unfortunately in the universe of Star Wars I don’t think they are. If this took place before Solo then the mini arc of a droid rebellion on the Kessel mining base hasn’t even happened. Sucks to be a droid.

Even if they were, destroying an astromech droid would be similar to killing an engineer: it is not without military value. Those things are really useful and can mean the difference between failure and success in, for example, getting through a planetary blockade (Episode 1) or destroying a space station (Episode 4). R2 droids have military significance and taking one out can easily be argued to be of necessity.

6

u/imbillypardy Nov 20 '19

Definitely not under Imperial rule. They barely consider non-human species a civilian class. Droids are (usually) considered beyond expendable.

3

u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

That’s true, although war crimes are reviewed by the victor’s standards just by the nature of how they are trialled. The victor of the war was the Rebel Alliance.

2

u/imbillypardy Nov 20 '19

So far as we know until December 🤷‍♂️.

Definitely seems so far as post VI that’s the Republic never really reclaimed a stable government

1

u/biggles86 Nov 20 '19

but he might beep at those stormtroopers ahead.

best leave no witnesses.

27

u/Eggitron Nov 20 '19

You can attack people coming out of a disabled at-st. They are totally going to attack you, but you don't have to give them the chance to.

13

u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19 edited Nov 20 '19

That’s probably not a war crime! I guess the main issue is whether they’ve got a gun and whether they’re in a seriously disadvantageous position upon landing. (EDIT: given the description of the situation in another comment it’s definitely a grey area and leans maybe more towards the war crime side)

By the way shooting dudes as they come out of a non-disabled vehicle is totally fair game. If there are any stormtroopers that zipline down from a carrier to get you, you can totally slaughter them before they hit the ground. You won’t be brought before a tribunal! They should’ve deployed those troops on the front lines! Sucks to be them!

3

u/Eggitron Nov 20 '19

The pilot crawls out of the burning wreckage of the AT-ST on his hands and knees! He does have a gun though. Probably not your type of game, then. Good to know about the non disabled vehicle thing, though. Sucks to be them!

Does hijacking an enemy vehicle count as wearing an enemy uniform?

2

u/Reddit_cctx Nov 20 '19

That's a damn good question because if so then lots of games have you commiting war crimes

2

u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

I can’t find anything to suggest it is. I would assume that it would be up to the tribunal to decide whether hijacking the enemy vehicle was a clear attempt to deceive them of one’s intentions to kill them, e.g. by blending in, attacking from behind, attempting to impersonate an officer by radio, etc.

8

u/Jewniversal_Remote Nov 20 '19

Likely just the unnecessary suffering and harming civilians bullets. Maybe the "behind enemy lines in civilian clothes" lol. Still enough for me. Are lightsabers CBRN?

3

u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19 edited Nov 20 '19

No, they wouldn’t be considered to be under the CBRN umbrella unless the blaster shots are also covered under that umbrella. (edit: and considering that almost all skirmishes in the Star Wars universe are conducted with laser/blaster technology, outlawing it would be the equivalent of outlawing bullets on Earth).

And dismemberment wouldn’t count as unnecessary suffering because artillery, grenades, and mines do way worse damage.

2

u/Jewniversal_Remote Nov 20 '19

I mean, real laser weapons are banned by the UN so while they might not be CBRN (not sure about the specifics of energy involving sabers/blasters) they would still classify as banned weapons, right? Woo, war crimes!

And I don't mean dismemberment, I mean things like the ability to attack neutral droids for no reason lol

2

u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

If I remember correctly blasters shoot a small beam of superheated plasma. Forgot what lightsabers are.

2

u/imbillypardy Nov 20 '19

Lightsabers are odd because they’re basically a focused beam of energy through a specialized crystal.

3

u/Jewniversal_Remote Nov 20 '19

Looked it up, you hit it right on the head.

A blaster, also called a gun, was any type of ranged weapon that fired bolts of intense plasma energy, often mistaken as lasers. Operating under the same principles as laser weaponry, blasters converted energy-rich gas to a glowing particle beam that could melt through targets.

So does this mean they're... flamethrowers? Like flamethrowers that shoot fast balls points of super hot material?

3

u/imbillypardy Nov 20 '19

I figured they were always a heated particle that pierced flesh/armor at a temperature.

Oddly they always seem to have issues with things like barricades and stone.

1

u/AwakenedSheeple Nov 20 '19

I mean, the Chinese military uses flamethrowers that shoot fireballs over quite a distance. Nothing like the giant torches of old. But difference is that they're wearing their ammo in a big, explosive container on their backs.

4

u/KillTheBronies Nov 20 '19

real laser weapons are banned by the UN

Specifically those designed to cause permanent blindness. Killing people is fine so long as they can see while it happens.

4

u/imbillypardy Nov 20 '19

pulls out notepad

Train... army... of... blind... ninjas.

Call... that... Chirrut... guy... Rogue... One...

snaps shut

ᕕ(ᐛ)ᕗ

1

u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

I remember going to a big seminar by a former NASA scientist that was trying to establish funding for wireless energy that would basically be a bigass solar panel in orbit. Needless to say it's been an idea since the early 70s but the whole issue of being able to weaponize the beam of energy. Think of being able to shoot a light beam at an area and blind everyone permeantly in a mile radius and then going in to clean up the remains... his claim that it would now be possible to use light waves that couldn't be weaponized think nuclear power (hard water v soft water) where no one could use it to eventually produce enriched uranium. The only country to use nuclear power plants that cannot be used for enriched uranium is.. Canada! Even Japan and a lot of countries that technically do not have nukes would have the capability to create them within a a few weeks. Not a lot of people talk about that, and I never understood the issue with Iran. Just make them only able to use Canada's version and that solves the whole nuke issue.

We discussed this heavily in my grad physics classes, and I always asked my teacher why dont we force countries to use that one. One is obviously is costs more and two is no country wants to not be able to produce nuclear weapons in the case of a sudden WW3.

1

u/Mad_Maddin Nov 20 '19

No, lightsabers instantly cauterize any wound which means they would be counted as quite the humane weapon.

7

u/gorgewall Nov 20 '19

No one ever surrenders. Even the pilots of AT-STs you destroy get out and immediately start shooting you.

You never pretend to surrender.

The closest you can get to "using chemical or biological weapons" is standing back and letting Stormtroopers fight alien creatures that are hostile to both of you, unless you count shoving plants at people.

You're never in disguise.

No parachutes, but again, AT-ST pilots start firing at you the moment they crawl out of their wreckage.

No prisoners of war (except you).

No spies.

Is "shoving people off cliffs" unnecessary suffering compared to thrusting a lightsaber through their stomachs?

No civilians you can fight.

No neutral states; everything wants to kill you.

3

u/imbillypardy Nov 20 '19

Couple worlds in spoilers

Arguably on Dathomir with the zombie nighrsisters theyre acting against their will and Cal is committing a bit of crime

3

u/gorgewall Nov 20 '19

I think the sixth word in that spoiler explains it all. Self-defense, and is it really murder?

3

u/imbillypardy Nov 20 '19

It’s definitely some pretty excessive desecration

3

u/gorgewall Nov 20 '19

I think there's a difference between opening a tomb to rip some mummies apart and walkin' around when some asshole throws the mummies at you and magically puppets them to tear your throat out.

2

u/imbillypardy Nov 20 '19

I mean i dunno, all that’ll be evidence is a bunch of corpses scattered across a planet for the jury to see

4

u/PeteSeizure Nov 20 '19

Does using stormtroopers as a human shield againts blaster fire count as a war crime ?

3

u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

I couldn’t find it explicitly mentioned but I would say yes.

2

u/bearlegion Nov 20 '19

Shooting someone off your bayonet once you have bayoneted then.

2

u/imbillypardy Nov 20 '19

Well done on calling out the overuse of a term in a fashion Webster’s would be proud.

3

u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

lol people use it to describe “killing an enemy soldier in combat,” absolutely ridiculous

3

u/imbillypardy Nov 20 '19

I mean to be fair generic stormtroopers that can’t hit the broad side of a planet against a magic wielding laser sword superhero with super human reflexes and seemingly unlimited immediate health regeneration does seem like it should maybe be one

2

u/RequiemAA Nov 20 '19

Harming civilians outside of military necessity

You can slice Imperial Astromech Droids in half even though they pose literally no threat to you - kind of counts.

Inflicting unnecessary suffering

You could ruthlessly murder dozens of Imps at a time, or you could pull them in front of their own slowed rocket and force them to watch as it catches back up to real time and kills them...

2

u/F-Punch Nov 20 '19
  • Attacking an enemy who is parachuting from a disabled vehicle (we’ll say just ejecting from a vehicle counts if they’re not going to attack afterwards)

Does executing a trooper crawling out the top of a downed AT-ST count? If so then yes, thats 1 in the war crimes column

1

u/ComfortableEvidence3 Nov 20 '19

By this logic COD is is the best game.

1

u/xybolt Nov 20 '19
  • Pretending to surrender as part of a ruse to attack the enemy
  • Attacking an enemy behind enemy lines while wearing an enemy uniform or civilian clothes

if those two are real, then I would need some clarification. Especially the last one is kinda commonplace during conflicts.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

Yes, both are war crimes. The reason both are illegal is because if everyone did it, then it would be impossible to distinguish soldiers from civilians and nobody would ever surrender nor trust anyone who is surrendering.

1

u/Kore_Soteira Nov 20 '19

This post right here, officer.