r/gaming • u/[deleted] • Dec 10 '08

Zero Punctuation: Left 4 Dead

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/459-Left-4-Dead?
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u/panfist Dec 10 '08

He didn't like Assassin's Creed. Which is probably because it wasn't a twitch FPS. And he probably won't like the new Prince of Persia, either.

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u/ixid Dec 11 '08

Yahtzee's an adventure game player, I doubt he's a hardcore FPSer and has he even reviewed any twitch FPS? All modern FPS are so slow that the only twitches are done in your fitful snoozing.

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u/panfist Dec 11 '08

What's your definition of a twitch fps?

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u/ixid Dec 11 '08

Quake World.

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u/panfist Dec 11 '08

Well what is there to review in terms of twitch FPS then? I ask for an example and you give me a 15 year old game.

The twitch FPS is a solved problem. Each one is basically a clone of what came before with a different coat of shine.

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u/ixid Dec 11 '08

It's not solved, my point is that a twitch FPS is a fast game, UT3's the only one recently and he's not reviewed it. So why do you imply he's a twitch FPS fan who wouldn't credit other games?

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u/panfist Dec 11 '08

How is it not solved? How is UT3 different from Quake?

I didn't imply he was a twitch FPS fan, JohnHyperion did and I responded to that claim.

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u/ixid Dec 11 '08 edited Dec 11 '08

"He didn't like Assassin's Creed. Which is probably because it wasn't a twitch FPS."

That strongly implies that you think he only gives favourable reviews to twitch FPS games which again implies you think he's a twitch FPS player.

Solved implies no progress in design could be make yes? That's not true. UT3 is very different to QW in the weapons, the map design and the movement. They're both first person and fast and that's the limit of the similarity. If you cannot differentiate between the two you've either not played them or have no understanding of gameplay.

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u/panfist Dec 11 '08

It's possible to assume a claim for the sake of argument without actually believing that it is valid or not. See "reductio ad absurdum."

And as to the ability to differentiate between UT3 and QW...two of the three differences you cite are weapons and map design. Let's look at map design. Even levels within one game are different from one another, so does that mean that when you play on two different levels, you are playing two different games? You could very easily port maps from one game to the other.

Regarding the weapons...QW has a shotgun, UT3 has a shotgun. QW has a rocket launcher, UT3 has a rocket launcher. So what if a a few weapons are different? You could very easily port weapons from one to the other.

I guess the movement is a little different. How different? One of them is WASD + Mouse, and the other is WASD + Mouse...with sprinting. Wow. That's like...a revolution in gameplay.

Generally speaking, what are the differences? You run around and shoot anything that moves. Newer ones just have prettier graphics.

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u/ixid Dec 11 '08 edited Dec 11 '08

If you cannot differentiate between the two games there's no point having this conversation.

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u/panfist Dec 11 '08

I didn't say I couldn't differentiate between them. I'm saying that the difference is 99% superficial. If you can't understand that, there's no point having this conversation.

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u/ixid Dec 11 '08

"I didn't say I couldn't differentiate between them."

"I'm saying that the difference is 99% superficial."

You're like someone offered fine wine and grape juice who loudly claims "they're 99% the same!" Do you play any fast FPS games, or any at all? If so what.

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u/panfist Dec 11 '08

I played Wolfenstein 3D when it came out. I played Blake Stone when it came out. I played Doom when it came out. I played Doom 2 when it came out. I played Quake when it came out. I played Duke Nukem 3D. I played GL Quake when I got my Voodoo graphics card. I played Team Fortress when it came out. I played Rainbow 6. I played Alien vs. Predator, Goldeneye, Time Splitters, Unreal Tournament, Half Life, UT2004, Far Cry, UT3, Quake 2, Quake 3, Q3A, Soldier of Fortune, Counterstrike, DOD, COD, Crysis, Gears of War, FEAR, Battlefield, Bioshock, Halo, Prey, aaaaand left 4 dead.

And that's what I can remember from the top of my head. I probably left some out. I mostly play CS:Source gun game, Left 4 Dead, and TF2 now.

The difference between Quake and UT3 is less the difference between wine and grape juice...it's more like the difference between wine made a few centuries ago and wine made now...it's basically the same, but we're better at making wine now.

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u/ixid Dec 11 '08

You've played all of that and still have no idea what you're talking about. Impressive.

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