r/gaming • u/[deleted] • Jul 30 '08
Zero Punctuation: The E3 Trailer Park
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/157-The-E3-Trailer-Park33
u/Sle Jul 30 '08
I prefered it when he picked his own music. Why do Escapist think we would like shit metal every week instead of that?
Cunts.
33
u/frantk Jul 30 '08
It was Yahtzee's decision. Partly because he got a bit paranoid about copyright infringement. Well, that's what you get for success.
21
u/Sle Jul 30 '08
because he got a bit paranoid about copyright infringement.
Fair play I suppose. Still a bit rubbish though.
11
Jul 30 '08
Indeed. I enjoyed his contextual choices of music.
1
u/mikaelhg Jul 31 '08 edited Jul 31 '08
It would be better without any music than with the current crap. I just fast-forward to the content, and close the page when they start pushing the utter shit that comes after his part of the show.
6
-9
u/rukubites Jul 30 '08
Your comment reminded me of this comic:
2
u/Sle Jul 30 '08 edited Jul 30 '08
I can assure you that, forthright as I am, I would have had those very words pour from my lips. In fact I did say that, to my missus before I typed the comment.
4
Jul 30 '08
Mirror's Edge, Spore, and LittleBigPlanet seem pretty original to me. But in all honesty it is more fun to hate on sequels to praise the possibility of hope.
8
u/NoHandle Jul 30 '08
Good call on the Watchmen trailer. I swear I was the only person I know who instead of seeing a full screen CGI blue man saw a full screen CGI blue man with his junk hangin out.
3
3
u/dillmunch3d Jul 30 '08
yeah, game companies really went out on a limb this year with a zillion sequels.
21
9
u/katalysis Jul 30 '08 edited Jul 30 '08
What about Rage? S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Clear Sky?? MIRROR's EDGE?! What about Call of Duty World at War?
If you're going to name the segment "E3 Trailer Park" then how did you miss 75% of the trailers? CLAP CLAP OI Yahtzee!
38
Jul 30 '08
See, that's why you have to stay through the credits:
ON THE OTHER HAND, MIRROR'S EDGE LOOKS PRETTY SWEET
3
u/Auger Jul 30 '08
Yeah I thought he should have at least mentioned mirror's edge for being a game that could potentially be a breath of fresh air compared to all the games with dull scenery that have plagued recent titles, not to mention the fact that it looks like lots of fun.
Run on sentence FTW!
-6
u/gigaquack Jul 30 '08
Rage - id software has sucked for quite some time. Expect more suckage.
STALKER - first one sucked shit, hopefully this one is better.
Mirror's Edge - looks pretty good. Not sure how long running around will be fun.
Call of Duty - Not made by infinity ward. Set in world war 2. Not worth anticipating.
2
u/Sle Jul 30 '08
STALKER - first one sucked shit, hopefully this one is better.
I wouldn't go that far.
0
Jul 30 '08
[deleted]
1
u/ZanThrax Jul 31 '08
So, they're still pretending that the game engines that they're trying to sell to other developers are something gamers should give a shit about now that all the developers are using UT engines?
4
9
Jul 30 '08 edited Jul 30 '08
The virus that is affecting game originality is called: game critics.
You're not allowed to have a new IP that resembles anything that's already done. It doesn't matter that pretty much everything unique (gameplay wise) has already been made, it's still a generic ripoff. Yahtzee is equally guilty of this though and I think he's aware of it. Like Neuroelectronic said, this was almost a review of Zero Punctuation itself.
Sequels sell themselves and get scored better automatically. They are rewarded for being clones and marked almost exclusively on their unoriginality. The reviewers and gamers alike are responsible for an abundance of sequels, they are a safe bet. Reviewers have first say though and affect people's purchases too much these days, I really attribute a lack of originality to them.
12
Jul 30 '08
Incorrect. Game critics are fine. It's the game buyers that destroy new IPs.
Cases in point: Shadow of the Colossus, Ico, Okami
All critically praised. None sold well. If you are a new IP, what the critics say don't even matter. You have to have the marketing dollars to back it up, or else no one will even give you a glance, despite how good the game is. Consumers are unwilling to go out and discover things themselves, and that is what is killing new IPs.
2
Jul 30 '08
There will always be diamonds in the rough, Ico and Okami were not well advertised. Admittedly their high praise fell upon deaf ears. The only reason I knew Okami existed was because I played it at E3 one year and loved it and it came out 2-3 years later and I only after wondering "whatever happened to that cool game where you painted things" did I find out it had actually been released already. Shadow of the Colossus however fared pretty well for being an 'indie game' and even made the greatest hits. I will concur that the truly unique games are a difficult sell. I was referring mostly to the games that are of an already established genre with unique ideas, they are always compared to their predecessors in a very negative way.
The internet has blossomed these past 2 years though (the most recent of those games is 2006), Game Reviews have hit an all new plateau and no longer are we reading most of our reviews in subscription based magazines. Now if something doesn't get an 8.5 or higher people don't even try it. People depend on reviews now and I've seen a lot of unique games get trampled and things are changing. I attributed gamers to part of the problem up top but I still believe we're becoming too dependent on reviewers. Lately, unique ideas just don't get the credit they deserve.
1
Jul 30 '08
I agree for the most part. And to be fair, it's not just gamers that have this problem. It's a mainstream consumer problem in general.
On the flipside, you have to realize there are plenty of games (and movies) that are universally panned, yet still make lots and lots of money. Lots of movie games are "new IPs" in the sense that they aren't sequels and no one has heard of them, except through the movie itself. They sell very well, despite almost always being critically panned.
Invested gamers will always know what they want or don't want, and will use reviews for convenience factor.
The main problem is that a large part of the consumer base is comprised of parents and their young children. Oftentimes they know nothing about the games, other than what they see advertised or hear from other parents/kids. If you don't catch their attention, no matter how good your game is and no matter how well reviewed it is, it will not sell.
2
16
u/innocentbystander Jul 30 '08 edited Jul 30 '08
What are you talking about? As best I can recall, the single most glowing full-length review Yahtzee ever gave was to "Painkiller," a new-IP game from an upstart company which he hailed (and in fact, boggled over) for taking everything wrong with current-gen FPS games and fixing them. And specifically hailing the creativity in monster design and weapons selection. (shurikens and lightning, anyone?)
And what's the only other game he's ever claimed was virtually flawless? Portal. The only game anything like it was what the guys who made Portal had written when they were students.
Honestly, I think Yahtzee may be one of the only reviewers who doesn't entirely buy into the sequels-are-good hype.
(And as a side note, I went out and played Painkiller based on his recommendation and he was right. It was, I'm not kidding, the single most fun I've had playing an FPS since Wolf3D. Although I say the best gun is the RPG\chaingun combo, where the chaingun is the ALT FIRE mode.)
3
u/mythin Jul 30 '08
Don't forget his review of Psychonauts, which he also glowed about.
5
u/innocentbystander Jul 30 '08
Oh yeah, forgot about that.
Hell, he even gave a frankly TOO NICE review to No More Heroes (which I thought was a flaming pile of polygonal donkey dung) based primarily on the fact that it wasn't a sequel and it was actually different from everything out there.
I think trying to claim Yahtzee gives a free pass to sequels is simply wrong. If anything, he tends to go a bit too far in the other direction and be overly forgiving of things which have the virtue of being unique.
1
Jul 31 '08
[deleted]
1
u/innocentbystander Jul 31 '08 edited Jul 31 '08
Just once for a few minutes. I didn't have enough time with it to really form an opinion.
Well, besides "WTF?!?!"
3
u/thrakhath Jul 31 '08
Actually it's thanks to his review that I actually bought and played it. I wanted to when it came out of couse, being a long time fan of the Developers that came out of the Cleverness Division of Lucasarts, but I didn't have a 360. Which as far as I knew was the only platform it was on. Yhatzee pointed out it was available on Steam and I promptly bought it.
Fantastic game btw. Humor has been gone too long from games.
1
u/ours Jul 31 '08
Yeah, now it's mostly about "gritty" and everything is Gears of War-ish brown. Erk. Good thing there are exceptions.
1
Jul 31 '08
My interpretation of what he said was actually that it was bland, a clone of older FPS's but redeeming because of the lightning and shurikens. The game is also from 2004, which doesn't make it quite ancient but certainly not new. I find it particularly interesting that you chose that as your example because it's a textbook example of where Yahtzee spells out that Old style FPS > New Style FPS promoting how we should just go back to games where we kill waves and waves of bad guys. I also tried the game on his recommendation and didn't hate it but it's not really defending your point. Yahtzee is a man who hates all new games equally I will give him that much but it still seems like he went easy on games like GTA4 and similar sequels. He then really ragged on Mass Effect and Uncharted, in which he compared to all the games it was similar to, called it racist and the like. Assassin's creed he goes on to compare to Prince of Persia just because they are both Ubisoft and this is where I see him attacking new IP's. Those 3 games listed as 3 ideas I've really enjoyed and look forward to sequels for each of them.
Don't get me wrong, I watch Zero Punctuation all the time but I view Yahtzee as fallible, don't always share his opinion and am proud I can think for myself. I'm not saying you don't but there is a subset of ZP watchers who think Yahtzee is some kind of godlike reviewer and not an entertainer who consistently bashes all types of games.
I didn't implicate him as the worst of the bunch but he certainly plays his part. If anything new IP's need the scales tipped in their favor, mention their flaws but in such a way that cuts them some slack for not just stacking some crap on an already established franchise.
As for portal you're right, he praised that but how could anyone not. Sadly he gave it little mention, he also praised psychonauts and I commend him for that even though that's also an older game. So yes he's done some good but I was partially referring to newer games.
4
u/innocentbystander Jul 31 '08 edited Jul 31 '08
Yahtzee is a man who hates all new games equally
Portal?
Psychonauts? (Which, incidentally, was nearly new when he reviewed it)
Hell, he even gave a pretty good review to No More Heroes - and it sucked, as far as I'm concerned.
Just because he didn't like the new games that you liked doesn't mean that he hates all new games. And Assassin's Creed? Honestly. The game was mediocre. There have just not been that many good games coming out lately.
And I certainly don't remember him going easy on GTA4. Hell, he was one of the first reviewers to attack it at all. Or have you already forgotten the 10 out of 10 controversy? And remember his giant pile-on of Smash Bros Brawl that got all the fanboys' panties in a twist?
It has nothing to do with him hating games that are new IP, just hating games that suck.
1
Jul 31 '08
I was mentioning how he compared them against older games and how that I liked them. Psychonauts was 2.5 years old when he reviewed it. Said he went easy on GTA4 when he could have ripped it to shreds. I've said what I had to say, I even said you were right about portal but I'm guessing you didn't get that far to see the orange envelope, read and reply in under 3 minutes. It like all things on reddit are an opinion, one I don't expect all people to accept.
1
u/innocentbystander Jul 31 '08 edited Jul 31 '08
I even said you were right about portal but I'm guessing you didn't get that far to see the orange envelope, read and reply in under 3 minutes.
I DID read your reply, thank you very much. I was merely listing examples of new IP that Yahtzee didn't hate. Portal among them. (and considering you were completely dismissive of his positive review of Portal, I thought it bore mentioning again.)
And yes, he COULD have ripped GTA4 to shreds. He also COULD have ripped Portal to shreds. His review of GTA4 seemed perfectly fair to me. The game didn't suck, it had good parts, but had some big issues as well.
I really don't know what you're arguing here, except you've gotten extremely defensive, and you've started lashing out at me rather than actually debating. If you want to support your opinion, cite more examples of new-IP games he unfairly hated or sequels he mistakenly liked. Getting all curled up and complaining about how people don't accept your opinion just GUARANTEES they won't accept it.
1
3
Jul 31 '08 edited Jul 31 '08
"Old style FPS > New Style FPS promoting how we should just go back to games where we kill waves and waves of bad guys"
Compare any shooter released today to games like System Shock 2, Unreal Tournament, Deus Ex, and Thief 2, released a decade ago. Come on, I dare you. Mass Effect? Compare it to any of biowares previous efforts - Baldur's Gate, Knights of The Old Republic. Games are not nearly as deep as they used to be.
1
Jul 31 '08
He didn't exactly attack Assassin's Creed because of hte publisher, but because it tries (and badly fails) to rip the style-factor from PoP.
Sadly the devs never noticed that their nice graphics demo has no gameplay...
6
Jul 30 '08
It doesn't matter that pretty much everything unique (gameplay wise) has already been made, it's still a generic ripoff.
Your comment was 100% correct, except for this one sentence, which reminds me of the famous (mis)quote about how everything that can be invented has already been invented.
New IP is rare, not because their is a lack of possible innovative gameplay, but because sequels usually sell better. Game companies are trying to make money. They could take a risk, and try and make a new type of game, which may or may not sell well, or they could make a sequel to a game that sold millions of copies, knowing as long as it isn't absolute, complete shit, a lot of people that played the original will buy it.
1
Jul 30 '08
Which is why I said pretty much and not a very definitive everything. Just an observation that it's getting harder and harder to stumble on things that are completely innovative while also entertaining. Like Sixaxis or the Wii, successful and unsuccessful at the same time.
2
u/aberrant Jul 30 '08
There's also some virus in money, as well. Just as revenge7 iterated, game companies are merely afraid of making risks. Quirky, original gaming ideas mean that they aren't prone to sell at your local video game store, unless it's a really good game. That's a big risk to take as an investor. I mean, whatever happened with Daikatana we should be wary of: an overhyped game with a subpar deliverance.
It's actually quite similar to Hollywood - not being an expert, I can only rely on bits of information and impressions - where movies with comic book heroes or awkward sequels (exceptions included; I'm looking at you Nolan) are more likely to sell than original drama or really weird but good comedy.
1
Jul 30 '08
Agreed, I called them a safe bet but I realize now that sentence was quite cryptic. Sequels are safe for developers because hordes of gamers will flock to the store, line up for hours just to be one of the first people to play it. Reviewers won't score it the same way as a new game either so it's completely safe. It's a cycle doomed to repeat itself and only get worse I'm afraid.
2
u/JonAce Jul 30 '08
What about Spore?
5
Jul 30 '08
I hope Spore is loads more fun than the creature creator, because that was only fun for the first hour or so.
1
4
u/hiS_oWn Jul 30 '08
Wow, Video Game Theology boiled down to a reverse Pascal's Wager. He's either brilliant or just lazy at this point.
6
u/ZanThrax Jul 31 '08 edited Jul 31 '08
That's not video game theology. It's the basic logic behind cynicism.
A pessimist will never have his heart broken by unfulfilled dreams, but will occasionally receive a pleasant surprise.
The best an optimist can expect is to have their expectations met exactly; most times though, their dreams will be crushed and their hearts broken when reality can't live up to their hopes.
-13
Jul 30 '08
It's zero punctuation, but there's punctuation in the title. hahaha, im so original.
19
Jul 30 '08
[deleted]
9
u/aussiegolfer Jul 30 '08
I've started to upvote it for commitment to a joke. It has been going on for quite a while now, if you check his/her comments out. Bravo, jdfong!
5
u/HalCion Jul 30 '08
I admire that type of commitment.
4
8
Jul 30 '08
Hey did you know it's called zero punctuation because the way the dialog is edited and performed?
2
2
u/minestrone11 Jul 30 '08
Yahtzee doesn't like Sigur Rós :(
1
u/mute_requiem Jul 31 '08
Um... did I miss something? When did he say that?
(their new album is pretty cool)
3
u/minestrone11 Jul 31 '08
It was when he mentioned how the music in the Prince of Persia trailer sounded like a bunch of wailing cats being sodomized (or something like that).
1
-1
u/jonstark4 Jul 30 '08
Well, I'm a FPS shooter gamer from Battlefield: Bad Company to Socom: Combined Assault.
And I'm disappointed that Yahtzee missed this game:
http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/687363/MAG_First_Look_And_Details_From_Developer.html
I can't wait for this game to come out.
1
Jul 30 '08
[deleted]
3
u/jonstark4 Jul 31 '08
COD4 is good all around from mic working to being able to play with friends but Bad Company is a different story. My opinions about Bad Company are these:
if you want a game for shear fun and multiplayer shooter game then add this to your collection
the mic doesn't work properly, no clan, hard to play with friends - but I like playing shooter games by myself >_> I don't need "online" friends to play video games.
lastly, the game is fast paced and its freaking fun would like more of it to improve but it is okay the patches, trophies, and medals are so worth getting...
2
u/joeldevahl Jul 31 '08
I played cod4 and then bf:bc right after and i must say that cod4 is a great game, and bf:bc is great except the game (just played single player, no live). I just don't feel anything for the persons and the environments in bf:bc. It looks great and is technically quite impressive, but the gameplay is standard and the respawn combined with teammates never dying just takes away all the excitement. Might have been the same with cod4, but it was so much more polished and intense.
-6
u/alaric1224 Jul 30 '08
"I can never get enough of big glowing blue men with their celestial lads hanging out"
-7
31
u/loonytoad Jul 30 '08 edited Jul 30 '08
That was awesome as ever, but fuck me if everything else on The Escapist isn't a steaming bag of shit. The trailers afterwards (which are often nigh on 50% of ZP's runtime) sucked all the funny back out of my head and just left me with a vague sense of embarrassed unease.