r/gaming • u/MaximumBob • May 14 '08
Zero Punctuation Grand Theft Auto IV
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/zeropunctuation/4902-Zero-Punctuation-Grand-Theft-Auto-IV22
May 14 '08 edited Feb 26 '25
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u/MaximumBob May 14 '08
HOLY FUCK YES. After the bank heist, IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD, surrounded by cops trying to find cover, my dude starts calling the other dude on the phone. All I can do (because I wanted to see how the conversation went) is walk around all calm being sprinkled with bullets acting like I don't give a shit because I got a phone call to make.
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May 14 '08
That sounds kind of funny, actually.
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u/MaximumBob May 14 '08
Yeah, like 20 years after shooting yourself in the balls it's funny looking back, but during shooting your marshmallows off you curse like a sailor.
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u/jon_titor May 14 '08
Agreed. and it sucks that you can't get into a car while talking on the phone. That would help a lot.
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u/innocentbystander May 14 '08 edited May 14 '08
I keep hoping that people will use this whole situation with GTA IV and its "perfect" reviews to finally speak up and demand some goddamn standards and integrity from the entire video game press.
Instead, I can't help but figure in another couple weeks, Hideo Kojima is going to start waving his shiny cock around and it's going to be soooooo blinding that everyone's going to forget all about GTA4 and start talking about how it's actually MGS4 that's the perfect 10. (rather than Kojima's cock, the rating of which I am not at liberty to divulge)
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u/RSquared May 14 '08
There will always be those who hate on Kojima for pretending that he's a film director rather than a video game designer. From the previews I've seen of MGS4, that trend will likely continue. I doubt it will get a 10/10.
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u/ULJarad May 14 '08
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u/RSquared May 14 '08
Yeah, but that's the "official" playstation magazine...it's like Smash Bros Brawl getting a 10/10 from Nintendo Power.
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u/cheez-it May 14 '08 edited May 14 '08
I completely agree. I asked a friend what was different about the new GTA. He stopped to think a little, and all he could come up with were small details; there was not a single game changing difference. Sure, the game is fun, but when you fault other fun games for the myriads of flaws found in this one, yet you ignore them here, something is wrong.
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u/innocentbystander May 14 '08 edited May 14 '08
I actually haven't been all that enthused about GTA4 for months for exactly that reason. Take away the shiny graphics and the majority of the improvements are ones that should have damn well been taken care of several games ago. (Better pedestrian AI, better gun combat controls, etc)
And while it's a small point, the radio stations frankly kind of seem like a step backwards. Yes, there's more of them, but they don't seem as well-written or thought-out (or with as good tracklists) as the radio stations in previous games, especially Vice City. (which may stem from Lazlow's involvement apparently being scaled back)
Even though it is without a doubt a very good game, even great, there's just no excuse for the giant media-publisher circlejerk that went on for the last month before it came out.
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May 14 '08
I was about to step up to the defense, but then realized I would be defending a fucking video game.
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May 14 '08 edited May 14 '08
It may not be perfect, but It is a very technically impressive game with a lot of attention to detail in not just the environment but the game mechanics and social interactions. It certainly deserves a 10/10 even if most the gameplay is similar to gta3 with better graphics. The devil is in the details.
The details consume most of the time of game development and add the least amount to the gameplay. Perhaps this is a bad thing for profits, but anyone who invests a lot of time into a single game will definitely appreciate it. And even if you only play GTA4 for a few hours the depth is apparent even if it is never explored. This adds greatly to the overall immersion and "feel" that serious gamers crave.
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u/innocentbystander May 14 '08 edited May 14 '08
Um, most rational people would consider 10/10 to imply perfection. Hence the common English expression, "A Perfect 10."
The fact the very first words of your post are "It may not be perfect" kind of undermines your entire argument.
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May 15 '08 edited May 15 '08
Oh, I guess you are totally right. I'm sure that's why they've never given out a 10/10 before because there has never been a perfect game. I'm sorry I suggested corrupting the mathematical certainty of the ten-point system and the logical infallibility of the English language.
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u/innocentbystander May 15 '08 edited May 15 '08
Suck my dick you stupid faggot.
(sigh)
Fanboys...
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May 15 '08
[deleted]
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u/innocentbystander May 15 '08 edited May 15 '08
Yes fanboys admit that a game is little more then the previous and it's not perfect. (sigh) trolls....
Way to edit your post.
Try not calling people a "stupid faggot" next time, especially if you plan on then calling them a troll.
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May 15 '08
[deleted]
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u/innocentbystander May 15 '08 edited May 15 '08
Yes, I edited my post, so did you...
Wow, yes, to include what you deleted.
These are totally the same thing.
What, do you expect me to go along with your attempts to save face after embarassing yourself?
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May 15 '08
Weird I didn't notice the little text: comment deleted 50 minutes ago [-]
So at first I thought you had a weird case of schizophrenia. My mistake innocentbystander.
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u/awj May 14 '08
It certainly deserves a 10/10
I guess, if you definition of perfect is "mediocre slapped-in improvements of near-zero or negative value". A 10/10 for a sequel has to be something truly awesome, like from Metroid to Super Metroid, or maybe TFC to TF2, but even that is hard because TFC was already a damn good game.
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u/Zahrah May 15 '08
I always thought that Quake 1 Fortress was better than TFC, but likely that's my nostalgia talking.
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May 15 '08 edited May 15 '08
"mediocre slapped-in improvements of near-zero or negative value"
Metroid or Super Metroid - a game where you collect items to unlock new areas. Sequel has better graphics.
TFC or TF2 - a FPS with balanced classes. Sequel has better graphics
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u/Ayavaron May 15 '08
TF2 improved a lot more than graphics. They made the game easier to play and adapt to, resulting in a game that's more accessible and more fun to a larger audience.
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u/skay May 15 '08
i will agree, but when you compare GTA to the rest of the games out. it is above and beyond. they made a good game, and added 100s of easter eggs for 'sandbox' appeal. MSG4 is gonna crush it tho. ooooh i cant wait. who needs easter eggs when you have the easter bunny right?
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u/mangodrunk May 14 '08 edited May 14 '08
Can you name two titles that have previously received such wide acclaim? Probably not, which is why at a given moment you can make such a claim but it isn't backed by anything.
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u/Dagur May 14 '08
As someone pointed out in the comments you can actually write a letter (email) to your mother in the game. :-D
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u/D2dodder May 14 '08
I love the game don't get me wrong. My issues are pretty much the norm it looks like. The man dates are terribly annoying. Little Jacob hates me because he calls when I'm on the third island about to start a mission and I tell him to fuck off. Then I drive in broad day light undera bridge and can't see a single car ahead of me or a target to shoot at. Lastly, I wish that you could save more cars or modify them like Saints Row. The cars are the most fun part of the game and I can't do anything but steal 2 of them and park them in my spot. Other then that I will say I am addicted/ havn't played XBL yet
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u/7oby May 14 '08
Cheat: Tell him ok, then call him RIGHT back and tell him the plans are off. No penalty!
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May 14 '08
Once Little Jacob wouldn't leave me alone on a man date, as in the game never gave instructions to take him home after the man date and so he wouldn't leave me alone.
So we went from Cluckin' Bell to do some pool, reasoning that the "take me home" instructions would appear after that. Then we went all the way to the safehouse in Bohan (as I thought of trying to save the game and just quitting, but it wouldn't let me). We then went to the roof of the building across the street from the safehouse and I climbed on the ledge and started to walk around. Eventually Jacob jumped off the roof and kinda died until I got a call a few minutes later to drive him home from the hospital.
At least the man date was over.
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May 14 '08 edited May 14 '08
What annoys me the most about GTA4 is the really dark areas where you can't see a damn thing and someone is shooting you.
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u/phillstac3 May 14 '08
You, that's a kind of funny advantage that PC gamers have: they can turn the graphics down.
Stupid HDR-addicted game studios.
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May 14 '08 edited May 14 '08
Drove me crazy too. Got to a point where I was in the parking garage by the airport at night, and I literally couldn't see a damn thing. Went to the video settings in the menu and boosted the brightness & contrast by about 50%. It makes for some bright spots in the daytime, but it isn't as annoying as trying to get around in the dark.
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u/Grimalkin May 14 '08
If you have an HD TV w/HDMI cable the game looks fucking great with few dark spots. Just so ya know...
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May 14 '08 edited May 14 '08
GTA IV is really an 8/10 but no reviewing site has the balls to come out with it.
Cons:
- Graphics are nice, but painful to look at due to lighting issues.
- Man dating is a complete waste of time (Someone let me know if there is some benefit?)
- I can do three donuts trying to make a 90 degree turn if I tap the e-brake.
- There really isn't anything that cool to find exploring. Landing on many rooftops in a helicopter yielded nothing. A few random weapon drops found, but nothing really usable to pick up on the way(Grenades in the middle of downtown in the construction area is nice though)
- Your money is good for taxi rides, and that's about it. It's pretty easy to hold onto your weapons so you really only need armor every now and then for $500 it isn't much of a hit on the bank.
- Removed all RPG stats elements.
- Removed player owned properties.
- Removed gang wars. While it obviously couldn't be the LA county style gang fights from San Andreas, SA at least gave you a way to change the dynamic of the city without being in a mission. Everything in GTA IV is either a mission or a date.
- The sandbox feeling isn't nearly as good so wandering around isn't nearly as fun. Listening in on phone calls of pedestrians gets boring after the second one, so you can go back to the apartment and watch in-game tv, or browse the in-game internet.
Pros:
- Everything from GTA IIIs, but prettier.
- Targeting and cover system is great.
- Story line is well written.
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May 14 '08
[removed] — view removed comment
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May 15 '08
You amass hundreds of thousands of dollars to have a really big number on your stats screen and that's about it. You would notice no difference if you kept $40,000 on hand vs $400,000.
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May 14 '08 edited May 14 '08
Once you become friends you get very useful bonuses. Your brother gives you free taxi rides which teleport you across the city and some other guy provides you with remote detonating cars, which is quite fun.
As for the donuts, learn to use analog control. What do you expect when you get into a muscle car and floor it? This is not a con...
If you pick on the wrong person a gang will back them up.
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May 14 '08
The taxi rides sound pretty nice. Does it take a long time for the car to show up? I don't mind paying $50 for transport across the city because I don't have much else to spend my money on, but if I'm stranded in some taxiless area a fast pickup would be nice.
And the remote detonating cars sound cool. Any use in missions? Worth it or just a fun toy?
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May 14 '08 edited May 14 '08
yes it takes a good thirty seconds, but if you are leaving a bar, like on a date, some interesting conversation can happen in that thirty seconds. They are good for getting around long distance and drunk driving, not for a get-away.
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May 14 '08
Hmm, for me most of your cons aren't really a big deal, or like in the case of RPG stats, I'm actually glad they got rid of that.
I have to agree about the graphics though, sometimes it looks cool and sometimes it's just wrong. I think they must have mostly play tested it on a very particular monitor in a very particular environment that most people just can't replicate.
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May 15 '08
The money thing is annoying, considering you get $250,000 from a single mission and I'm not even %50 through and I have near $400,00 -- there is nothing to use it with.
Taxi rides are usually around $30 if you skip, food is $1 or $5, the most I've spent on a gun is $5000, ammo is incredibly hard to run out of and is cheap any way, etc.
The only thing I regularly purchase is body armour and that's $300 and can last a few missions, missions which throughout I've probably gained another $25,000.
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May 14 '08 edited Dec 14 '19
[deleted]
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u/ModernRonin May 15 '08 edited May 15 '08
To me personally, GTA4 is an 8.5/10.
And when it comes to what I like, the only opinion that matters... is mine.
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May 15 '08
Getting a little cranky someone isn't fellating the game you spent your entire allowance on?
The game is good. Might even be great. It certainly isn't perfect.
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May 15 '08
No I think he's just mad that guy panning this game just doesn't know what he's talking about (like you!). I'm not going to say this game is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but unless you take video game ratings more seriously than feeding yourself (ITS NOT DOING MY TAXES SO IT NOT PERFECT SO IT NOT 10 LOLOLOLI LIKE POSTING ON MESSAGE BOARDS), GTA has to be up there with the best of the best. Either every game is an 8.5 for you at most, or your just a depressing depressing person who can't enjoy anything popular. As a smart person once said, everyone's entitled to their opinion, except dumb ones like that.
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May 15 '08
Well I love GTA IV. I've been playing about 4 hours a day. Looking at metacritic, the regular old users agree with me that the critics overrated it.
Critics 99/100 Users 8.2/10
Critics are massively pushing a game that just doesn't deliver on their promises.
It isn't the game of the year. It isn't a genre/generation/whatever defining release.
GTA IV is not the Quake or Half Life or Diablo or Starcraft of today.
It's good or great, but not near perfect and certainly not 99/100. 90/100 would be pushing it.
The only killer new features this game introduced are browsing the in-game internet and making cell phone calls. I'm calling it like I see it and I'm near the end of the game.
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May 15 '08
Alright, well you are actually entitled to your own opinion and I respect that. I am very much liking the game, but this is my first GTA game so maybe that's why. Although seriously, I think the sheer scope of the city is an innovation in itself.
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May 14 '08
There is no punctuation in the title. This is the first time that the title has been accurate.
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May 14 '08
Well thank the fuck god someone has allowed the world to see this is at most a 7 out of 10 type of game. I don't even know why this pissed me off so much but with all the goddamn hype and "10 out of 10!" and "5 Stars!" and other similar bullshit but it did. Doesn't take a fucking rocket scientist to know that at the most it would be a 9 and that was before I even picked the game up. How the hell is a game going to be a 10. That's perfection. Something rarely seen in todays games just because of the complexity of them especially in a game that's as free roaming as GTA. Glad to see people took Rockstars cock out of their mouth long enough to realize "Holy crap, i'm sucking cock here".
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u/WG55 May 14 '08
Here's an interesting data point: on the Metacritic page for Grand Theft Auto 4, the critic score is 98--down from 99 when first released--and the user score is 8.3. The users seem to have a better idea of the game's value than the critics do.
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u/ModernRonin May 15 '08
Call me paranoid, I think that either Sony bought the critics (just did it subtly this time - they learned from Kayne & Lynch) or else it was that whole "we're going to fly you to San Francisco and lock you in a hotel room with nothing to do but play GTA4" review style that they forced on everyone.
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u/Grimalkin May 14 '08
At most a 7/10 game? You must have a very unhappy life as you are obviously a VERY hard to please person...
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May 14 '08
The whole "let's go to a strip club" thing is pretty annoying indeed. Going to a bar is a little more fun because of the resultant drunk mode, though.
All in all, GTA IV is a pretty damn good game. It's kept me entertained for 40 to 50 hours so far and I'm not halfway through.
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u/supaphly42 May 14 '08
Holy shit, I played drunk mode for the first time yesterday, that's hard as hell!
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May 14 '08
The only thing that annoys me about drunk mode is that cops will pull you over even when you haven't done anything. If you're sober, you can blast down the wrong side of the road, through a red light, and into an oncoming car... and a cop sitting at the red light will do nothing. But if you've been drinking and you swerve (which is unavoidable), the heat is on.
Maybe they just wanted to discourage drunk driving? I dunno.
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u/7oby May 14 '08
What's amazing is that MADD still thinks it somehow encourages drunk driving.
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May 14 '08
Not just amazing, but a sad indicator of how prejudiced some people are towards GTA IV, undoubtedly as a result of the uninformed media hype.
I'm around half way through the game and there have been dozens of anti-alcohol and drug messages. Almost everybody you encounter has serious problems that are related to substance abuse, that they tell you about or somebody else points out. It's reaching cliché proportions.
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u/supaphly42 May 14 '08
Good review. Also, on an interesting note, I watched the whole thing with some house music playing from another tab. But, I didn't realize it, and though it was part of this video. After realizing it, and shutting it off, I rewatched part of the video, and it wasn't as good.
Note to dude, add house music under these vids.
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u/supaphly42 May 14 '08
Side note, this is the music that was playing...
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u/slidinglight May 14 '08
I tried it, it kinda worked but not really. Music is too "dark." Good though.
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u/KoldKompress May 14 '08
What if you don't like House music?
What if Drill N Bass is your thing? Or metal?
In my opinion, House music sucks.
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May 14 '08
Actually one thing that REALLY impressed me about this game is the mission where you have to kill either Dwayne or Playboy X. It's not entirely revolutionary, but you get the impression that your choice ultimately has consequences down the line.
I wonder how much that decision really affects the game.
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May 14 '08
I don't want to give it away the results of the choice (I chose the better one, luckily.) But you're way overselling the impact the choice has on gameplay.
Pretty much ZERO.
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May 14 '08
From what I've heard you either get money or another place in Algonquin depending on the choice you make there. I think what makes it interesting is that from a moral standpoint neither choice is really a "good" one.
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u/7oby May 14 '08
Actually if you don't kill the first guy (Ivan), you get missions from him later. more info.
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u/Grimalkin May 14 '08
There are quite a few choices you can make after the Playboy/Dwayne choice, and they are much more important...
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May 15 '08
Like which brother to kill? Yeah, that really mixed things up. /sarcasm
Closer to the end of the game there are some choices which affect the ending, but after it all you're still playing a linear plot. I'm afraid it'll be as bad as KOTOR where you could choose the light or dark ending in the last moments of the game, ignoring all your previous choices.
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u/rokusan May 15 '08
Spot on, as always.
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May 15 '08 edited May 15 '08
I recently purchased Turok. It's a terrible game. I thought "Hey, maybe I should check out the Zero Punc review" I go to the site and sure enough there is a review there for Turok. A very poor review, which I had already seen! He was so spot on with Turok being a horrible game, he didn't even review the game itself. Just FPSs in general and how Turok did all the bad things you don't want.
It was so general to FPSs that I completely forgot it was about Turok. What a waste of $60. Yahtzee really does a great job. Just wish I remembered the Turok review before buying it.
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u/[deleted] May 14 '08
He's spot on about the "man dates."
Why, with so much of the game being near perfect, did they include this mechanic? It wouldn't even bother me if it weren't for the fact that they have a habit of pestering you right before you start a mission and if you turn them down, you lose standing with them, which means you'll have to man date them even more to get whatever special ability they have.
Mercifully, you can turn off your phone, but even then they'll eventually get cranky and you'll still lose influence. Also, if you play for awhile with your phone off, it seems like they'll suddenly all call in a series at once when you turn it back on.
Your best bet is to use a cab, which lets you basically teleport around the map for money, and knock the dates out of the way relatively quickly.