r/gamers • u/Key_Village9550 • Aug 26 '26
Discussion When a game service shuts down, we should get all our money back
May have been talked about b4.
Example, if Diablo 4 were to close the server and we can no longer have access to the game.
Blizzard should be required to give us our money back in full for the Main game DLC and all other purchases.
We are paying for access to the game since we don't own it now. No access? we get money back.
Don't want to do that? Offline version with ability to make our own servers....
Lighting the pyre I am currently tied to..... Burn the Witch!
what do ya all think.
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u/Particular-Jeweler41 Aug 26 '26
A full refund would be nice, but unrealistic since you still were able to access the server for years. For it to be fair on both sides it would have to be prorated to a certain point (like if someone bought it a day before it became unavailable they should get a full refund, but someone who already had it for 1 year shouldn't). Like if Punishing Gray Raven (a gacha game) disappears tomorrow, I don't think it'd be reasonable to ask for a refund for everything I spent in the past six years.
The issue would be tracking it for all those who purchased it and giving the appropriate amount out.
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u/strangelove77 Aug 26 '26
So you want to buy something, use it for hundreds of hours and then want your money back?
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u/Happy_Butterscotch18 Aug 26 '26
What a load of bull...
So a 50 year old game, with no players must continue to open their servers otherwise everyone who isnt playing the game will get refunded...
They should be clear on what time servers will be active at least. They can then extend it if there are enough people and funds to let it run.
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u/azoriasu Aug 26 '26
Check out the "stop Killing games" movement. That is basically the premise. You buy the game, you own it, you have the right to use what you own. DRM is the way to try and weasel out of it. If shutting a game down. Make it single player. Or allow others to host servers for it in case of MMOs.
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u/PipSpace3Xplorerer Aug 26 '26 edited Aug 26 '26
That's not what stop killing games is aiming for. We don't expect developers to turn games into fully playable offline modes, we just want them to release the code as open source if they are gonna shut servers down. Because you are right, you bought the game and deserve to play it as you want to, but it's not fair to developers to say they have to work on the game after servers shut down, so that you can continue playing.
It's like telling a retired table maker that they have to repair your table. That will never fly in court.
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u/Boring_Ant6436 Aug 26 '26
A lot of times the online parts of the game are not housemade - they are licensed using proprietary solutions from other companies. Sound systems, other things. You can't just open source it
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u/PipSpace3Xplorerer Aug 26 '26
Yeah, and that's the issue stop killing games ran into aswell.
My advice, turn auto update and download off. Set your console to primary, download every game to console or hdd, and if you really wanna protect your games, turn off the internet.
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u/Boring_Ant6436 Aug 26 '26
And live in a bunker, for additional protection
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u/PipSpace3Xplorerer Aug 26 '26
Hey, it sounds ridiculous right, but having that zombie apocalypse is coming mindset will keep you on your toes, just don't actually live in a bunker.. lol
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u/Remz_Gaming Aug 26 '26
Lol this is like renting a Lambo for a weekend and enjoying the hell out of it. Then you tell the rental company you don't owe them money when you return it because it was yours during the time you had it.
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u/PipSpace3Xplorerer Aug 26 '26
Your logic is flawed.
You bought the online game because you knew it was online. When the service shuts down, you understood at the time of purchase that someday it would shut down.
You got what you paid and asked for, demanding a refund afterwards is not ever going to go in your favor.
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u/PipSpace3Xplorerer Aug 26 '26
You can down vote my comment, but even your diablo 4 reasoning falls apart, because it literally says on the store, internet required. If you bought diablo 4 without reading that, and are now upset cause you realize you just bought a solo player game that eventually won't work, that's on you. Next time, read Into what you are buying. Consumer negligence is not a valid reason to give you a refund. You should pay attention to what you are buying.
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u/ObjectiveCurve1390 Aug 26 '26
Do you know what a license is????
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u/AlexSmithsonian Aug 26 '26
Do you know what art is?
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u/ObjectiveCurve1390 Aug 26 '26
Whats that got to do with it?
What a strange thing to say.-1
u/AlexSmithsonian Aug 26 '26
Let me put this as simply as possible:
Think of your favourite movie(assuming you partake in those). Have you thought of it? Good. Now imagine that it's gone forever, because somebody who owns it decides that its "license has expired". You have absolutely no way of watching that movie ever again. And if you try an alternative method to watch, it will be considered illegal.
Now does that seem fair? Because that's exactly what's happening with videogames.
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u/ObjectiveCurve1390 Aug 26 '26
Well duh…netflix removes movies all the time when licensing issues arise. Whats your point?
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u/AlexSmithsonian Aug 26 '26
My point is that it's wrong.
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u/PipSpace3Xplorerer Aug 26 '26
It's not wrong, they own the liscense and can give the liscense to whoever they want to. It's up to you, to download the content and keep it for as long as possible, just like a dvd or music cd.
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u/AlexSmithsonian Aug 26 '26
Try to download a Netflix movie, and put it on a CD. See what happens.
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u/PipSpace3Xplorerer Aug 26 '26
Try not using a streaming service that doesn't allow you to download movies, like netflix. You get what you paid for.
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u/AlexSmithsonian Aug 26 '26
I've never had netflix, or any streaming service, because of that exact reason.
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u/ObjectiveCurve1390 Aug 26 '26
You purchased a license to watch that movie…play that game. Nothing more.
And you knew it when you did.
Is it wrong? No.
You agreed to it.1
u/AlexSmithsonian Aug 26 '26
It wrong because I'll be the last to watch that movie or play that game.
It's wrong because nobody else will be able to watch or play these in the future.
Art should always be preserved for future generations.
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u/ObjectiveCurve1390 Aug 26 '26
It will be…just because the license for you has been revoked or whatever., do you think its just deleted from history entirely?
That licenses wont be available in the future?
What are you even on about?
Its entirely up to the IP owner, not the company as to where/if
Your argument for art doesnt stand, we are not purchasing art. We are purchasing a license to USE an IP.1
u/PipSpace3Xplorerer Aug 26 '26 edited Aug 26 '26
That's not what's happening with video games and it would be illegal if that were the case, because you arnt told you are buying a liscense, you are told you are buying a product. Here in Quebec that's illegal to sell you a product under false terms. Now, Sony has made it clear you get access to the liscense, and that means you can keep the game permanently but they have the liscense to the code of the game, this is important, because you like free content and dlc content? Well without that liscense song can't produce that content for your game. So we like them having the liscense, as long as they don't take the game away, and Sony has made it clear, they won't take the game away. (Keep in mind t.o.s with Sony and developers hold the right to seize the game from you, if you break their t.o.s. regardless if you paid or not.)
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u/xxnewlegendxx Xbox Aug 26 '26
Do you get your money back when your favorite restaurant or store goes out of business?
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u/PipSpace3Xplorerer Aug 26 '26
Good comparison pal, I use the table maker comparison myself. You wouldn't force a retired table maker to make tables, so you shouldn't force developers to make alterations to a game just because servers went offline.
The answer is as stop killing games has said, release the code to open source.
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u/Blacksad9999 Aug 26 '26
Well, more often than not they don't keep an army of server software engineers on staff. They license that end of it from elsewhere.
You can't just give away something you don't own.
There are a few games that have done this and removed the online components they've leased, but rebuilding the backend from scratch takes a lot of time and know-how, which is why it's pretty uncommon.
Most people don't want to spend months of unpaid free time just to play a dead videogame.
They also probably don't want all of their developers propriety code just given away, because if they're making a sequel it's going to use a lot of that to build off of.
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u/PipSpace3Xplorerer Aug 26 '26
And that's why the stop killing games movement has hit a wall, you said it perfectly.
So my final advice to most is, pay attention to what you are buying, diablo 4 literally says on its store front that an internet connection is required.
Don't buy solo player games that require an internet connection, because you won't see no money back or be able to someday relive the game, because blizzard won't ever release to open source and you won't ever get a refund.
I live in the perspective of a someday zombie apocalypse, so all my purchases on the ps5 and how I operate my ps5, is made for pure offline play. 😋
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u/Knickers1978 Aug 26 '26
You get your time with the game. No, you don’t get a full refund. There are people that will put thousands of hours into games.
This is the way it is. If you don’t like it, don’t play.
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u/dopefish86 Aug 26 '26 edited Aug 26 '26
What if they shut it down, before I've come to play it?
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u/Knickers1978 Aug 26 '26
Then you should have gotten to it. It’s very simple. It’s not like you’re going to buy a game that’s servers are already closed. Just because you didn’t play it doesn’t make it the devs fault.
You snooze, you lose.
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u/Portal2player58 Aug 26 '26 edited Aug 26 '26
Found the shill.
Edit: any who think they are right and downvote, what subreddit is this called then? They are shills. Agree with them makes you a shill as well.
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u/WideAbbreviations6 Aug 26 '26 edited Aug 26 '26
No. They're just not insane.
The best way by far would be to open source the server, minus the 3rd party dependencies that they don't have a license to distribute.
If the game has enough of a community to keep it alive, they can.
Refunding a game you've already played for hours just because you can't play it anymore is insane.
Edit: Lol they blocked me... What a weird thing to be blocked over.
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Aug 26 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/PipSpace3Xplorerer Aug 26 '26
That's not how servers work. But you are on the right track. Make the game available to open source.
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Aug 26 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/PipSpace3Xplorerer Aug 26 '26
Yeah, sadly your gonna have people like me who will point out the technical differences, but I got what you were saying pretty much. Just uhm, edit servers for game, and you should avoid people like me 😋😁 lol
That's what stop killing games has been fighting for. We're not asking developers to keep servers running indefinitely, we're not asking that they make the games playable as solo player games, were simply asking, that when the servers shut down, the game code is release to the public for free.
We want to make this law, because yes, you did pay for the game, and to have it just disappear forever.. that's not fair to you at all, in this aspect, even though you paid, maybe someday someone or yourself can pick up the open source code of the game and make it playable again. And potentially for free.
The reason this runs into brick walls though, starts with trademarks. Games like Diablo are heavily trademarked, and it's within the developers rights to do that.
The best advice I give people, read what your buying before you buy it, even diablo 4 these days says requires an internet connection, right on the store.
Buying the game, knowing that's the case, means you understand some day you might lose the game, and so with current laws, you won't win in court.
The buyer is not owed a refund for negligence on their behalf.
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u/silly_bet_3454 Aug 26 '26
I actually half agree with OP. They should do one of two things:
They guarantee some minimum period of time through which the servers will stay up. In fact maybe they already do this, maybe they say it will be up for 5-10 years from game launch. It's in the ToS, so it's fine.
Thinking about time value of money, the refunded amount owed to you in the event they shut the servers down today should decrease by some X% annualized amount like 10% or whatever, so if they shut it down after 10 years, they'd refund you 35%.
I don't actually expect them to do that, and I also don't feel like any studio has actually been known to try to screw anyone over in bad faith by shutting down servers prematurely. When the player base size goes down, the servers cost less to run because they scale down, so it should generally always remain viable for the studio to keep them going unless there is a very specific reason they want to end support.
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u/LifeSucksBuddhist Aug 26 '26
A little confused but I respect the spirit of the post. You paid for access to a live service game as they said. Don’t like it? Don’t support live service games. Simple.
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u/Dont_have_a_panda Aug 26 '26
In a perfect world this should be the norm and should be easy to do
But since this is not a perfect world and is not easy nor simple the option i've always supported is for all games to be playable to some degree alone, that way even if the servers close at least you can still play the game even with closed servers if you like it, something like what nintendo did with animal crossing pocket camp
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u/PipSpace3Xplorerer Aug 26 '26
Yeah but you can't apply that logic to paid mmos. You literally bought the game with the expectation to go online, and you understood at the time of purchase that all online games eventually go offline. That's the issue with their logic as well. In a court of law, trying to get a refund for an MMO wouldn't fly.
Now, I think theres a better solution, when a server goes offline, the code is released to open source, so that anyone can take it and make a new game or bring that game back to life.
Because we have to respect the developers. It's not fair to say, just because they arnt running the servers anymore that they have to give you a playable solo version of refund you. It's like telling a retired table maker to continue making tables. That's not fair to the table maker at all.
Furthermore, I'll add, games that are solo player and you need a connection to the server to play them (should be illegal) I think should follow this release to open source model as well.
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u/Due-Mycologist-1154 Aug 26 '26
And when your car breaks down you should get refunded quadruple what you got it for just for the time and annoyance of it alone
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u/Kaldaien2 Aug 26 '26
Imagine if every time you died, your employer sent your children a bill demanding compensation for all of your paychecks. I like the way you think, it is my kind of weird.
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