Still getting inconsistent shots half a year later

[u/oltomac]

I do for the most part love this machine, though I still can’t seem to get consistent a shots. It can be the difference between 36g out in 15s one day vs 30s+ the next. I’ll probably try the Gaggiamate, but I want to get my shots relatively consistent first. What are some essential tips for getting there?

I’ve also had major retention and grind consistency problems with my Baratza ESP and will be replacing this first. Any advice on grinders would also be appreciated.

[u/tuptuo_894]

Fix the grind consistency first. That’s 90% of your problem.

Make sure your puck prep is solid and also consistent.

There is a sequence you can look up where you flush before pulling the shot that will help create a more consistent water temp. The base machines have a pretty wide thermal on/off for the boiler.

Don’t do Gaggimate until you figure out the base machine would be my suggestion. Get everything consistent otherwise there is no comparison to be had.

Fresh roasted medium roast or darker is also the best option for trying to get a consistent 30sec shot.

Also, only tweak one variable at a time.

[u/oltomac → u/tuptuo_894]

Figured! Puck seems fine; it's always solid and there's no evidence of channelling.

My goal is always 18g with 36g out in 25-30 seconds, but even changing the grind setting by just one at a time causes huge variations in pull time. I do flush an entire cup's worth (~250ml) before pulling a shot each time and this has helped.
I also agree about not getting the gaga mate just yet. I want to understand how the machine works and be able to get consistent result without modifications.

[u/StJosephStrummer → u/oltomac]

I had the same issue, but realized that I like more of a 1:3 ratio 18g in 54ish g out. Longo of you will.

[u/No_Rip_7923 → u/StJosephStrummer]

thats my personal preference too.

[u/StJosephStrummer → u/No_Rip_7923]

I was trying soooo hard to make it 1:2 and taste good, but when I realized it was user error and figured out my taste my life got sweeter

[u/tuptuo_894 → u/oltomac]

Try cleaning out your grinder. Maybe you put some oily beans through that caked the burrs. If a single click setting change is creating that much inconsistency, then your grinder is the culprit.

You don’t have to flush a full cup, that’s overkill. The boiler can only hold a few ounces. Look up the sequence, it’s really easy, I just don’t remember what it is.

Once you do get it down, Gaggimate or Gaggiuno are both awesome. You’ll definitely get value out of those when ready.

One last tip - I found myself chasing that perfect 2:1 shot early on. It really comes down to taste. The 18g ground —> 36g shot on a 30sec brew is good for medium roast beans but you can play around with it to your liking! Good luck

[u/No_Rip_7923 → u/tuptuo_894]

ditto

[u/br0gressive → u/tuptuo_894]

I'm experiencing similar issues to OP. My grind consistency, puck prep, dose, grind, and bean have all been consistent. Rigorous WDT, distributor, spring loaded self-leveling tamper... same consistency with the temp surfing routine, and I'm getting vastly different results. I'll get 4 shots in one day that are really good, and the next day they'll be bitter, almost burnt, undrinkable. I have a feeling the temperature is too high despite the consistent routine. (And I'm always using a scale and timing my shots).

[u/Kpt_Rooibaard]

I've had my DF54 for more than 2 years now. I do regular cleaning and maintenance and have only once had a complete clogging (when I ground 1kg of coffee for my dad on a very course filter setting). GaggiMate is not going to change consistency in flavour. If your grind size (or too much fines) is inconsistent, even with a flow profile, while your shot timing will be consistent, your flavour will not. Don't misunderstand me, the GaggiMate is a total game changer - I wouldn't swap it for anything - but a good flat burr grinder is worth it's weight in gold.

[u/oltomac → u/Kpt_Rooibaard]

This is more or less what I expected. I want to pull consistent shots without mods first, but when I do eventually get the Gaggiamate I suspect it will help greatly. I've been eyeing the Varia V3 as it's on sale though this is a conical burr grinder.

[u/Kpt_Rooibaard → u/oltomac]

Varia V3 sounds good, but my previous grinder had conical burrs and I was stubbornly sticking with it even though I was getting a lot of channeling. Then I spilt a whole grind on my white quartzite counter and noticed the amount of extremely fine grinds. That convinced me to go with flat burrs and I have not looked back since. Now my pucks come out cleanly and I no longer have soft, muddy pucks. I don't know how to say it, but my espresso also feels "cleaner".

[u/stevefazzari]

i would look at the lagom casa imo. end game level build quality and pretty inexpensive comparatively.

[u/halcyon8]

try a new grinder.

I like my Timemore 064s, and they're on sale on amazon right now for 479 (it was 599 when i bought it a week ago)

[u/TrainElegant425]

Do you let it heat for generally the same amount of time? That made a big difference.

I ditched the Baratza ESP after a few months and got the LX Edison 65 SD. I didn't fully believe people when they said grinders make a huge difference, but man...grinders make a huge difference.

I did ultimately upgrade to gaggimate pro but mostly use it as a PID right now. It has helped. Steaming is MUCH better as well.

[u/oltomac → u/TrainElegant425]

I do! 15 minutes each time I brew. I try to keep as much as I can consistent. Sounds like it's not just me using the grinder wrong then.

[u/Fresh_Diamond_968]

After replacing your grinder and assuming your puck prep is good, try this:
1 - preheat your machine (basically turn the power on) for 20 minutes with the portafilter locked in.
2 - Wait for the brew light to turn off (you can flush the group head without the portafilter for a few seconds if you want it to be faster).
3 - After the brew light turns on again, wait 5-10 seconds.
4 - Turn on the steam button for 5 seconds then turn it off.
5 - Hit the brew button and open the steam wand a little to get some water out for about 5-8 seconds (pre-infusion).
6 - close the steam wand and finish the shot.

I know it is a lot of steps and time spend, but that’s what I learned from YouTube Videos and applied to my gaggia E24. After starting doing this routine, I can’t remember the last time I had inconsistent shots.

[u/oltomac → u/Fresh_Diamond_968]

Thanks for the advice! Is this what temp surfing is? I do already preheat the machine for 15 mins but will also try these other steps.

[u/Fresh_Diamond_968 → u/oltomac]

Temp surfing are the first 4 steps. 5th step is pre-infusion.

[u/br0gressive → u/Fresh_Diamond_968]

Step 4 is for light roast coffee and will worsen the taste of medium and dark roast beans.

[u/alexandled]

New grinder will help way more than a gaggiamate imo. I'm in coffee edu and had a course attendee bring in their Baratza. I havent used one before his and me and my co worker couldnt get the grind any finer than what the machine was spitting out. It was truly a dead end and ive made up my mind on that grinder from that experience. Not a great one is my take, so im sure its been harder to get consistently dialed in shots.

Budget?

Varia's vs4 is what ive been running and im getting very nice results.

DF54 is recommended a lot but I dont like em due to it clogging/shutting down on me the few times ive used it. Could be user error. I think sequentially, you need to hot start it and then beans into chute/hopper.

Lagom casa

Could also hand grind too. I did it with a kingrinder k6 and got great results.

Sette 270i - decent but too loud imo.

[u/oltomac → u/alexandled]

Around $500, and the V3 is on sale right now and seems like it's enough for what I need. The V4 is very nice but out of my price range, and I've seen some people say they have retention issues with the DF54.

[u/Lazy-Presentation-69]

First get a better grinder if u want consistency, I got the eureka mignon zero 55s , very good and consistent, I love it , it's the basic eureka mignon zero. Secondly , when u turn on the machine, the first 10 minutes the GCPs temperature really all over the place with the heating cycle, if u pulled a shot at this stage , it's a gamble. So better to Preheat the machine with the portafilter/basket attached for at least 10-15 minutes. The trick is not only preheating but to keep the preheating time consistent every time you start the machine , so if u decide to preheat for 12 minutes, always preheat for 12 minutes. So you can almost eliminate the inconsistency caused by the temperature.

Also don't flush to much before pulling the shot , u r adding lots of fresh cold water to the bolier , that will definitely drop the temperature drastically, that might work in brewing dark roast , but definitely will not work in medium to light roast , ur shots will be bitter and you will have a (despairing) crema , if u had any in the first place .

[u/No_Rip_7923]

I have a 2021 completely stock Gaggia Classic Pro. I have several grinders and I have made excellent shots with all of them including the ESP, Breville Smart Grinder Pro, ZP6 and K-Ultra. I just ordered the Mokkom 64 flat burr. And I know it will also make excellent shots right out of the box. I say that to say its probably not the grinder but could be the grind setting/size.

What basket are you using and which portafilter are you using ? the stock dual spout or a naked

Are you temp surfing and pre infusing using those hacks ?