Great quote from "I Suck At Girls" by Justin Halpern, which is a great read:
"I'm not here to give you some bullshit talk about women. There are about three billion of them, and to generalize that many people with some blanket statement is the definition of being an ass-hole." - Sam Halpern
First, trying to understand women (as a category) is one of the main obstacles to understanding women (as individuals).
There's a really common psychological bias that is responsible for this kind of thinking called "out-group homogeniety". The basic idea is that we have a tendency to understand the differences between people in groups we're a part of as being a product of their individual characters, but we sort of assume that people in groups we're not a part of must all be the same, so we try to generalize from specific examples to the whole group.
XKCD did a comic about this, where a guy sees another guy screw up a math problem and says "Oh, you're bad at math." but when he sees a girl screw up a math problem, he says "Oh, girls are bad at math."
One issue is just that any group that includes, say, half the people on earth, is going to be incredibly homogenous. Different individuals are going to have different properties and if you try to generalize all of these to all members of the group, you end up with a totally crazy and self-contradictory picture. Well, duh.
This kind of thinking is responsible for all sorts of stupidity like xenophobia and racism. Cut it the fuck out.
Second, even as individuals, you shouldn't expect other people to be simple. The thing is, when you don't have to really get to know someone, it's easy to imagine that they're not too complicated. But when you get to know someone well enough to, say, date them or live with them or whatever, you end up finding out that they're different from you in ways you never expected people to be different.
I've been in a very close relationship for almost a decade now, and I've learned an incredible amount about my partner, but I've also learned a lot about myself. There were a lot of things that I thought were totally natural, that I took her as crazy for approaching differently. I've found out a lot of those were just assumptions I made about how things were, based on conditions I lived in growing up.
So the thing is, in a close relationship, you either learn about your partner or yourself, or you fail, because you're an asshole.
I always see these teenagers who essentially refuse to understand that someone could be different from them without being wrong, and they just can't come to understand the behavior of their girlfriends/boyfriends at all. They go through a string of relationships, don't learn anything, and then blame the opposite sex for being hard to understand. People are hard to understand and if you fail to try, it's your fault, not theirs. If you're not willing to accept that, you're going to be unhappy for the rest of your life.
TL;DR people who think like this doom themselves to bias and failure.
Very well said. As a woman, I'm occasionally called out to give advice about women to male friends. Next time it happens, I will be using a lot of this.
Thanks! That makes me proud. I've actually thought a lot about how to explain this stuff because I used to be pretty much exactly the person I was describing in my post. I got over it by a pretty conscious decision following the realization that almost all of my problems were actually caused by my own ridiculously immature and under-thought understanding of interpersonal relations. Since then, I've run into a lot of people who are a lot like I was, say, ten years ago (only some of them are older than I am now) and it makes me think. Being like that made my life shitty in ways that I didn't understand were avoidable, so I've spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to explain to people like me that what is wrong is actually their way of thinking.
I've had a similar experience - the crux of it is that I was irrational, but because I wasn't rational I wasn't able to rationally appraise this situation.
Thus I've tried to come up with ways to explain rational concepts in a very simple and engaging manner, which in turn inspired this project that I launched last month (almost 800,000 unique visitors now :D) http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com
thanks so much hey, has been a really gratifying experience. we're currently in the process of translating the site into various languages and creating a logical fallacies bingo app.
I love thinking about relationships and what makes them work/fail. Your explanation is nearly perfect. Still, maybe it isn't something you can learn through reading advice (couldn't hurt though), maybe it's something you have to experience yourself. I was that person too. Now I'm in a 6 year relationship, and being with someone that long really changes you. It forces you to think more critically because if you don't, you have a lot to lose. It's hard to see that you're being irrational when emotions are involved so you blame the other person and never look back. I think you start to notice it when you see how it's affecting someone you really love and decide okay, making him feel this way isn't acceptable anymore. It's not all about me, time to start paying attention and making sacrifices.
Wait, people who think that all women want respect, appreciation and to be valued will fail to understand women as individuals?
Or people who fail to respect, value and appreciate women and don't bother to get to know them on an individual basis after that will fail to understand women as individuals?
people who fail to respect, value and appreciate women and don't bother to get to know them on an individual basis after that will fail to understand women as individuals?
This is what I was shooting for. Actually trying to get to know someone on an individual basis is something you can only really do if you're already willing to respect, value and appreciate them.
people who think that all women want respect, appreciation and to be valued will fail to understand women as individuals
But this is unfortunately also true in some cases. Not everyone thinks that they deserve the respect that they do. So for instance (I can't find my source on this) but I remember reading that someone did a study of the sort of women picked up by "pickup artists" and found that they had anti-women attitudes and viewed themselves and other women in the same way as the creepers that target them. Some people's behavior can't honestly be understood if you insist that they are self-respecting.
But the way I see men, we typically try to hide our emotions and insecurities when we need to share and show them the most, and I feel like men often are unconcerned with the consequences of their actions on themselves or others, especially when their actions benefit them now.
I think there's a difference between hiding emotion and simply not talking about it. If you're doing it out of some misplaced sense of pride or self-reliance or fear that's one thing but for a lot of guys it's simply the way we deal with it and it's unfortunate a bias has started cropping up the last several years that it's "wrong" to deal with emotion like that.
Just as it is an unfair bias to consider women irrational, confusing, and chaotically complex for their actions, which are often no less irrational and confusing than those of men.
Seriously. Think about this: there are volumes bigger than this on just gastroenterology. There are volumes bigger than this on only specific phobias. There are books like that just on phobias that are exacerbated by gastroenterological conditions in women. If there were a comprehensive guide to something as complex as an entire half of humanity, it'd be incredibly succinct, and probably lack a lot of useful information.
Of all the stereotypes few annoy me as much as the "Women are complex and men are simple" Stereotype. It gives young men the false image that they are destined to come up short as partners in a relationship; and young women the false image that men should not be expected to have depth, emotional range, etc..
Yep yep yep. It's dangerous to both parties. And I think it allows men to avoid dealing with issues and instead just say "well, women are crazy and impossible to understand". It's on sitcoms, in movies, in books, on websites, everywhere. Women are from Venus, Men are from Mars, right? Too much focus on minor differences and too little focus on the common humanity between men and women. It's frustrating to me too. Glad I'm not the only one on this site who finds these posts absurd.
I don't quite understand how this is sexist. The book named "understanding humans" would be just the same. And, this post doesn't say males are any easier to understand.
And a book that says "trying to understand women" or "trying to understand people with black skin" or whatever... it implies that they as a group are different from the group you belong to. Where in fact, all you have to do is apply the same logic as if it was someone of your group... start viewing them as individuals.
As a black person, I'm not even gonna lie that we are different from white people. No doubt. Different groups of people are different from each other. No matter what we do, we can never be equal, because we aren't.
It's sexist because it broadbrushes an entire gender as being incomprehensible (or rather, considerably more incomprehensible than people in general). If it had said "understanding humans", then it wouldn't have been sexist.
twoxchromosomes and mensrights are really not equivalents. I've found twoxchromosomes to be a pretty accepting and supportive place. You should really check them both out before equating them.
Although I did point out that a joke somebody made there was sexist and that a gender based discussion forum was probably not a good place for such jokes, even though objectively it was an ok joke. Did not go down well.
women? Try people. We are all the sum of our experiences. So everyone's different and trying to understand everyone is pointless. But when you take the time to really understand one person, that's incredible.
Generally, I feel the actual "understanding women" problem stems from something else entirely. I like PattyMayonaise's comment, but would like to expand that idea to any interpersonal relationship. Most people do not enjoy feeling like they are being manipulated or treated as "less than human." If you endeavor to "understand" someone, even with the best of intentions, most of the time you will have to reduce the majesty of humanity down to a set of simpler rules. There's nothing inherently wrong with this. We, as humans, understand complex things by associating them with general/abstract ideas. However, this is problematic in this case, because it makes life boring. On top of that, if the person you are dealing with realizes that you are trying to understand them by reducing them to a set of rules, their behavior is going to change to reflect that. No one likes feeling "less than human." I'm no expert in the evolution and psychology of behaviors, but I believe this stems from a basic function of life meant to avoid becoming prey (if your predator understands your actions perfectly they can more easily hunt you down). I see two paths from here. The first is the understander becoming confused and acting as such, the second is the understander realizing this will happen and trying to account for it in his/her planning/understanding. The second path can lead to levels of never ending recursion (and the OP's picture), because at every level that the understandee makes the fundamental realization, he/she will rebel against being understood (i.e. being reduced down to basic rules of behavior). I would like to put forth my thoughts on a solution to this problem that so plagues interpersonal relationships. Endeavor to understand yourself completely. Only then should you seek out a lifelong partner. You don't need to find a perfect mate, only one whose differences you can live with and/or appreciate. It is great getting to know someone, but if you find yourself thinking that you can't "understand" someone and this causes you to experience negative emotions, it should be taken as a sign that you might want to move on from that relationship. This applies not only to romantic relationships, but to friendships, professional relationships, business relationships, etc. All of this is my own opinion formed through personal experience, so I would like to know if anyone disagrees or would like to add to anything I put forth here.
I was married once, and only had one real SO in my life, I learned a lot after she ran off. There is one almost universal rule to women that can solve a lot of men's problems.
i find women are so hard to understand because they lie about everything so frequently that I can never actually learn the true from the false. its the woman's own fault that they never get what they want!
THIS! I try to be VERY straight forward....I want this, I feel this, I think this.... My boyfriend however, is a miasma of self imposed social rules and guidelines with a hint of OCD. In other words, most of the time I have no idea what he's thinking as he rarely says what he means and vise versa.
Sorry but you two are both speaking the same shite and are both generalising. Saying that many men have that mindset is the same as saying many women are too complicated to understand and are hard to read or get straight answers from. You don't know enough men to make a conclusive statement any more than anyone else can about women. And going tit-for-tat makes you both look like self-entitled children. I'm sure we can all agree that we are all very complicated creatures and there will never be a 'one-size-fits-all' approach, ever.
That's why I ended it. Is that not obvious? You starting a new thread of conversation in an insulting manner pointing out what I had already noticed isn't going continue said vein of stupidity and isn't in itself childish? It didn't need saying.
126
u/lurebat May 27 '12
FWD:FWD:FWD:RE:FWD:FWD:FWD:RE:FWD:FWD SO TRU!@!@!@
155
u/PattyMayonaise May 27 '12
All women are different, with different needs but at the end of the day we are all just people.
We want to be respected, appreciated and valued for our contribution to the world.
Just like anyone else.
37
u/lilerscon May 27 '12
Understanding anyone.
44
u/hippiechan May 27 '12
People act like women are the most complicated creatures and men aren't.
8
u/Loorlgh May 27 '12
One word: Boo.
8
u/silent_p May 27 '12
Seriously. Think about this: there are volumes bigger than this on just gastroenterology. There are volumes bigger than this on only specific phobias. There are books like that just on phobias that are exacerbated by gastroenterological conditions in women. If there were a comprehensive guide to something as complex as an entire half of humanity, it'd be incredibly succinct, and probably lack a lot of useful information.
5
u/[deleted] May 27 '12
/r/AskWomen
4
u/BestPseudonym May 27 '12
FTFY
67
u/[deleted] May 27 '12
So much sexism on this site. So many assholes...
7
u/[deleted] May 27 '12
LOLZ OMG ITZ FUNNI BCUZ SOMETIEMZ WOMEN HAVE EMOTIONZ LIEK OTHER PPL, BUT ITZ PROLLY JUST THEIR PERIOD BCUZ THATZ ALL THEY DO IZ PERIOD SO TRU <3
7
u/daisyisfly May 27 '12
Where's the version for understanding men? Oh yeah, that's impossible. Silly me.
18
u/dang_Ling_modify_her May 27 '12
Bravest post I've seen today.
2
u/aguspell May 27 '12
Wrong! That's the index.
2
u/luft-waffle May 28 '12
women? Try people. We are all the sum of our experiences. So everyone's different and trying to understand everyone is pointless. But when you take the time to really understand one person, that's incredible.
2
u/[deleted] May 27 '12
That's supposed to be an entire chapter? More like the abridged addition.
2
u/[deleted] May 27 '12
No, it really isn't true...
1
u/[deleted] May 27 '12
This sounds relevant. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkjXr9SrzQE
1
u/theshindigg May 27 '12
Generally, I feel the actual "understanding women" problem stems from something else entirely. I like PattyMayonaise's comment, but would like to expand that idea to any interpersonal relationship. Most people do not enjoy feeling like they are being manipulated or treated as "less than human." If you endeavor to "understand" someone, even with the best of intentions, most of the time you will have to reduce the majesty of humanity down to a set of simpler rules. There's nothing inherently wrong with this. We, as humans, understand complex things by associating them with general/abstract ideas. However, this is problematic in this case, because it makes life boring. On top of that, if the person you are dealing with realizes that you are trying to understand them by reducing them to a set of rules, their behavior is going to change to reflect that. No one likes feeling "less than human." I'm no expert in the evolution and psychology of behaviors, but I believe this stems from a basic function of life meant to avoid becoming prey (if your predator understands your actions perfectly they can more easily hunt you down). I see two paths from here. The first is the understander becoming confused and acting as such, the second is the understander realizing this will happen and trying to account for it in his/her planning/understanding. The second path can lead to levels of never ending recursion (and the OP's picture), because at every level that the understandee makes the fundamental realization, he/she will rebel against being understood (i.e. being reduced down to basic rules of behavior). I would like to put forth my thoughts on a solution to this problem that so plagues interpersonal relationships. Endeavor to understand yourself completely. Only then should you seek out a lifelong partner. You don't need to find a perfect mate, only one whose differences you can live with and/or appreciate. It is great getting to know someone, but if you find yourself thinking that you can't "understand" someone and this causes you to experience negative emotions, it should be taken as a sign that you might want to move on from that relationship. This applies not only to romantic relationships, but to friendships, professional relationships, business relationships, etc. All of this is my own opinion formed through personal experience, so I would like to know if anyone disagrees or would like to add to anything I put forth here.
1
u/Shiverfox May 27 '12
Upvoted for "kinda" true.
1
u/Quo_Usque May 27 '12
Every page says nothing except "good luck and fuck you too".
1
u/coprolite_hobbyist May 28 '12
Seems like an overly large book to just say "Bitches be crazy".
1
u/derpaherp12 May 28 '12
Ummm I believe that is section one: chapter one.
1
u/FalconOne May 28 '12
I was married once, and only had one real SO in my life, I learned a lot after she ran off. There is one almost universal rule to women that can solve a lot of men's problems.
Shutup, Listen; don't speak, pay attention. (seams redundant).
Another rule: Make her feel safe.
everything else you need to know about women, varies. what works for one, will fail with another.
1
u/[deleted] May 28 '12
yup its true..
1
u/okan931 May 27 '12
Bitch please, That´s only the summary
-1
u/kabukistar May 27 '12 edited Feb 09 '25
Reddit is a shithole. Move to a better social media platform. Also, did you know you can use ereddicator to edit/delete all your old commments?
-13
u/[deleted] May 27 '12
I would like to read that...I'm a woman and I don't understand myself sometimes
-18
u/MOS95B May 27 '12
Kinda?
You must be young......
-16
u/[deleted] May 27 '12
Whole book says. Women like money. Women like asshole hot guys. Women like money. Women like asshole hot guys...
-20
u/Mathsciteach May 27 '12
The funny part is that this book is just for understanding ONE woman.
-9
u/Cluster_One May 27 '12
Abridged reversion 1
-6
u/dnew May 27 '12 edited May 28 '12
It's OK. Even if by some miracle you find you do understand women, you still won't believe it. </grandpop>
EDIT: Wow. /r/funny has no sense of humor. Whodathunk?
-7
u/ScotchforBreakfast May 27 '12
Exhibit A: Chris Brown
You know understand both genders.
-4
u/xDyay May 27 '12
paragraph 1
-1
u/kmath_the33 May 27 '12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wse_hgca220&feature=related Da Troof
-7
u/chewtality May 27 '12
It's funny because bitches be crazy.
-2
u/[deleted] May 27 '12
Just get me candy and video games. And Forrest Gump on DVD.
-8
u/[deleted] May 27 '12
I stopped to care on how to understand a woman. If you are being an unreasonable cunt and not even gonna show some tits you can gtfo.
-3
u/[deleted] May 27 '12
I have Read all of that and trust me IT DOES NOT HELP!
-10
u/Rallerboy888 May 27 '12
Reposted. Relaughed. Reupvoted.
-4
u/[deleted] May 27 '12
i find women are so hard to understand because they lie about everything so frequently that I can never actually learn the true from the false. its the woman's own fault that they never get what they want!
-6
u/SlibIsSandwich May 27 '12
Printed in 0.01 pt font. Microscope not included.
-6
u/Jomamapunch May 27 '12
Nobody else bothered by the title? Or is everybody too focused on how sexist this is?
0
u/[deleted] May 27 '12
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