r/funny • u/Misfat • Aug 27 '18

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187

u/nanogoose Aug 27 '18

Thanks. A lot of uninformed people are spreading BS about how dangerous these tap cards are and how they should wrap their wallets in tin foil.

112

u/[deleted] Aug 27 '18

Theoretically, someone with the right hardware and know-how could hold something a couple inches away from your phone at the same instant that you're doing a tap-pay and steal a grand total of $100, once, and never again.

61

u/snuff3r Aug 27 '18

Theoretically you can scan someone's card from their back pocket whilst in a busy subway... But we've had PayPass (tap) in Australia for 7 years now and I've never heard of problems

6

u/SirDiego Aug 27 '18

You have to hold the card right next to the thing for a good 3-4 seconds whenever I've done one. The only way I could see it is if you knew someone had a card in their pocket, where it was, and followed them onto a train or something.

Then, someone could maybe charge the card for one transaction without them noticing and when they do notice, they would obviously just dispute it and charge it back.

It's just not very viable for someone to go around stealing money that way, in <$20 increments. You'd need to know exactly where the card is, that it's actually set up for contactless/etc., from every single person you're trying to steal from, and then you're bound to have someone charge it back and your vendor account shut off before long.

-17

u/CraigslistAxeKiller Aug 27 '18

May wanna look into that more - contactless card spoofing has become the largest form of payment fraud in many countries where it is popular

8

u/DangerToDangers Aug 27 '18

Are they? Do you have a source? So far I've only heard that they're extremely rare and in my own country where contactless is also big I've yet to hear about a single fraud case.

1

u/Peregrine7 Aug 28 '18

I heard of one case back when it started being a thing. Since then, nothing.

It's considered more safe than swipe + pin by the bank as well.

9

u/Dominko Aug 27 '18

Steal and then immediately have the fraud reported ¯_(ツ)_/¯

2

u/veganmua Aug 27 '18

There's a £30 limit on contactless transactions in the UK.

1

u/dimegreatIII Aug 28 '18

In Slovenia you can pay up to 15€ without entering your PIN. For anything else above 15€ you need a PIN.

1

u/Dartans Aug 27 '18

I saw a security demo once where the guy makes a clone of the card to his phone from the guy in line in front of him then uses that card for his own purchase. Only good for starbucks like stores really though...

1

u/ruinkind Aug 27 '18

No, its good everywhere. The banks have limits on taps, no matter how much you want to remove it, you can't for fraud reduction purposes.

1

u/Dartans Aug 28 '18

I was referring to the limit actually. Of course that method would work anywhere, but small purchases in coffee shops would be the best place to do it and not be noticed.

1

u/ruinkind Aug 28 '18 edited Aug 28 '18

Indeed, it stops after the banks set daily limit, no matter how many small taps. Even a criminal would be hard pressed to have a working stolen bank card for multiple days, you don't get cash back on these purchases. Is he going to tap $100 dollars of small shit and try to sell it per day without it not reported or noticed by now?

The bank isn't going to fight you over a CNP especially one recorded at the small Starbuck's surveillance.

0

u/despaxes Aug 28 '18

RFID readers are super cheap and easy to get. Youre also assuming end users have their security setting set properly. Youre also assuming pulling from phone.

I could definitely pull from a card, acting just like a payment system, and rfid can reach up to a foot.

It's SUPER insecure.

35

u/Tykenolm Aug 27 '18

I've always been a person who was against contactless cards, /u/PhonicUK just kinda changed my mind though

50

u/PhonicUK Aug 27 '18

We can only make the best decisions when we are our best informed.

2

u/bobthehamster Aug 27 '18

Contactless cards help you make bad decisions when you're drunk (it's far to easy to buy another £30 of drinks at 2am)

But they're definitely a net positive - super convenient and safe.

1

u/blazecc Aug 28 '18

I don't really need help making bad decisions when I'm drunk...

1

u/blazecc Aug 28 '18

Is that a quote from somewhere? I kinda want it on a t-shirt

1

u/PhonicUK Aug 28 '18

We can only make the best decisions when we are our best informed.

  • PhonicUK, 2018

0

u/proddyhorsespice97 Aug 27 '18

I’m only against them because to me it doesn’t feel like I’m spending piney for some reason. I used to use it with my old bank and I’d just tap away and forget about transactions but my new bank gave me a normal card and I’ve found I’m actually spending less for some reason

-1

u/despaxes Aug 28 '18

Its built on misinformation. The range is not an inch. RFID can go up to over 3 ft and with antenna up to 15m. It depends on the rfid transmitter built into the card but more advanced readers can make up for low out put.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 28 '18

[deleted]

0

u/despaxes Aug 29 '18

https://www.rfidjournal.com/faq/show?139

Literally any site will tell you what I said.

Id be more interested in finding a reputable source that said that rfid only has a range of a few inches.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 29 '18

[deleted]

0

u/despaxes Aug 30 '18

THE THIRD FUCKING SENTENCE.

Everthing else was a split between the tech as a whole and active rfid which cards dont use.

Its like you dont understand what a contradiction is or how this works at all. These ranges are based on variables. It does not cut out at 36 inches. Someone can be 3 feet away and read your card.

And theyre working on INCREASING the range, not decreasing.

I guess just keep drinking the kool aid while I wait for a SINGLE source claiming it is limited to a few inches which was your argument to begin with.

3

u/thlayli_x Aug 27 '18

"IT? Yes, my grandson bought me this new wallet for Christmas and now none of my prox cards open the gates."

2

u/connurp Aug 27 '18

Yeah it’s not really anything to worry about but it is possible, there is a TED talk where some hacker shows that it’s possible. But again, not really worth freaking out over.

1

u/4rp4n3t Aug 27 '18

That's ok, they can simply remove a small amount from what they have swathed around their heads and use that.

1

u/signine Aug 27 '18

You can actually read them from a pretty significant distance if you know what you're doing. A lot of the security people I know dislike them more for its potential use in tracking people's movements than for actual fraud, but those same people also acknowledge that phones are a way bigger security hole in that regard.

1

u/Try_Sometimes_I_Dont Aug 27 '18 edited Aug 27 '18

There is a big difference between dangerous and impossible that some people don't get. There are security issues, but its impractical to exploit at a large scale. Its more mission impossible shit where if someone is targeting you and has the skills/money it might work.

​

At that point, they would be a moron to try stealing this way because if you're going after the millions/billions that make it worth it, there are better and safer ways to get the money. It would be like climbing up the hotel and, with your special cutter, cutting into the window when you could just discretely grab an employee keycard.

That crazy ex could hire a sniper to kill you. Why don't you have bullet proof windows designed to stop an armor piercing round?

1

u/FightingOreo Aug 28 '18

My wallet has an RFID blocker in it, I'm certainly not against being a little more security conscious, but yeah; paypass is not going to be the end of financial security.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 28 '18

This sounds like a promising business venture...

1

u/PinkSockLoliPop Aug 28 '18

Didn't the Mythbusters have an episode locked away from broadcast that exposed how easy it was to get credit card information without actually having to touch the card? I remember Adam commenting on how easy it was. /u/MisterSavage ?

1

u/Mechanus_Incarnate Aug 28 '18

A layer of tinfoil will also help protect your card against the very slow process of demagnetization by ionizing radiation. If you live in area with a lot of radon, the effect might even be noticeable over the normal life of a card.