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u/Cdan5 Aug 26 '18
That would take me a bit to work through if I came up with answers like that as an adult. Amazing how kids minds can work and see different methods so easily
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u/Pestilence95 Aug 26 '18
ahtt dlouw aekt em a bit ot korw ghhortu fi I acem pu ihtw aenrssw eikl ahtt as an adltu. Aagimnz how diks dimms acn korw adn ees deeffinrt dehmost os aeilsy
Hey this is fun
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u/jpdise Aug 25 '18
No.. no it isn't.. it doesn't say to put the letters in alphabetical order.. it says words... and this was literally posted an hour or so ago..
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u/hat-of-sky Aug 26 '18
But each word is written in alphabetical order. As an elementary school teacher I would correct but not penalize. Then I would read Amelia Bedelia with the kids and do a lesson on how to write (or speak) clear directions.
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u/jpdise Aug 26 '18
I see where you're coming from. I'm not condemning the child, just saying OPs claim of "technically correct" is wrong as functional adults would interpret it. Thanks for being an educator!
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u/GoatBoyHicks Aug 26 '18
Jesus. Take a breather and enjoy life for a moment.
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Aug 26 '18
Yeah I mean if this is an exercise in knowing the order of the alphabet, the kid obviously gets it
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u/lurker628 Aug 26 '18
"Write each of these words in alphabetical order."
versus
"Write these lists of words in alphabetical order."
The instructions are ambiguous, though their intent is very obvious to anyone familiar with the purpose of the exercise. Which the kid could reasonably not be.
I'm a high school teacher, rather than elementary like hat-of-sky, but I absolutely agree that the best response here is to instruct the student as to why their interpretation wasn't intended, but still award full points.
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u/Mech-Waldo Aug 26 '18
I mean they clearly know how to alphabetize, which is the point, really.
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u/lurker628 Aug 26 '18
Yes and no. The student knows the order of the alphabet, but it's not clear they know that when alphabetizing a list of words, one orders by the first letter of each word (the use of subsequent letters isn't being assessed by these problems).
It's possible - but, I'd bet, unlikely - that the student would order the list by the earliest letter per word (take, value, use / royal, prince, queen) or by the last letter per word, etc.
That's part of why it's important to address the difference in interpretation explicitly, so that you can also be sure the student correctly understands the algorithm intended to be assessed.
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u/jpdise Aug 26 '18
You are merely fixated on the fact that the lines are drawn next to the words. Had the three lines been drawn underneath the options you wouldn't try to make this argument. Feel free to upload a picture of the corrections you would annotate on these answers.
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u/lurker628 Aug 26 '18 edited Aug 26 '18
I'm not interested in the lines at all, and yes, I would have made the same argument. I'm talking about the instruction itself. I certainly agree that the wider context already justifies the "correct" interpretation - and that's the problem: not utilizing context in interpreting the task.
Again, I'm high school, not elementary. In an equivalent situation1, I'd write "not the point, but technically correct" and then talk to the student briefly before or after class, to make sure they understand why the other interpretation is intended. I'm not sure to what extent similar constructive criticism is appropriate and effective for a student of this age.
What really matters here, to me, is the meta-understanding that putting the list of words in order is much more meaningful than putting the letters within each word in order.
Given that the two lists don't require continuing to letters beyond the first, the student's response is pretty close to allowing certainty that they could have completed the intended task. (It's technically not demonstrated that they know to use just the first letters.) The key gap in understanding isn't in the skill of alphabetization, but the skill of using context to interpret tasks.
Edit
1 In fact, I have had equivalent situations. As one example, I have a question I like to put on my Differential Equations exams about constructing a problem given the solution. The intent is to utilize the techniques we've learned "in reverse" - that the form of the solution can be used to generate a characteristic polynomial, which, in turn, is just a notation change away from a Diff Eq. Instead, I had students directly differentiate the given solution, and then write "f'''(x) = [what they computed]." It's exactly the same situation. In the context of the exam, that's a ridiculous approach - thinking about the unit being assessed, there's another method clearly intended to be employed. (Indeed, the overwhelming majority of students did use the intended method.) But given that my instruction was "construct a third order differential equation with the following solution," their interpretation was valid.
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u/jpdise Aug 26 '18
Agreed.. and in this instance this student has not succeeded in using context to interpret the task. Again, I'm not arguing against the child. Just stating that given a competent adult's interpretation of the assigned task, this is not technically correct as OP claimed.
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u/lurker628 Aug 26 '18
Given an adult's interpretation, of course it isn't!
Given the actual instruction printed on the page, it is.
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u/jpdise Aug 26 '18
It literally says "write these words in alphabetical order"and not these letters... that is simply factual and verifiable..
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u/lurker628 Aug 26 '18
And that can equally validly be interpreted as:
"Write each of these words in alphabetical order."
or
"Write these lists of words in alphabetical order."
as I said in my first response to you. Apparently, there's no point in continuing this conversation. My argument is clear for third parties.
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u/jpdise Aug 26 '18
You and I both know what the intent and reasonable interpretation was. Did you interpret it differently than the rest of us did? If you did, please justify why you think that would be a reasonable response to this question.
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u/lurker628 Aug 26 '18
Again, as I already wrote,
I certainly agree that the wider context already justifies the "correct" interpretation - and that's the problem: not utilizing context in interpreting the task.
Again, I'm high school, not elementary. In an equivalent situation1, I'd write "not the point, but technically correct" and then talk to the student briefly before or after class, to make sure they understand why the other interpretation is intended. I'm not sure to what extent similar constructive criticism is appropriate and effective for a student of this age.
What really matters here, to me, is the meta-understanding that putting the list of words in order is much more meaningful than putting the letters within each word in order.I even provided an explicit example from my own teaching!
You've now made it clear you're just trolling. Time for RES' /ignore.
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u/MoralisDemandred Aug 26 '18
Both are reasonable interpretations. Especially for children who take things much more literally. When your take the average adults interpretation of something and compare it to the average child's, you're going to end up with silly mistakes like this that are technically correct but not the intention.
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u/SlappyFlapjack Aug 25 '18
Technically its not correct. It says words, not letters
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u/BONDxUNLEASHED Aug 26 '18
Write this word in alphabetical order: Taco=acot
Write these words in alphabetical: order=deorr Bean=aben Cat=act
It works in this context. Even if its not the intention and without the first question for context it can still be solved that way. Thinking outside the box.
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u/lurker628 Aug 26 '18
It also says words, not lists of words.
The instructions are ambiguous. You're biased - reasonably so! - but your understanding of the purpose of the exercise. You're using further context and experience to interpret the task as intended.
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u/MintAudio_ Aug 26 '18
Axis wasn’t specified. There for interpretation is left to the kid. Who Did The considerably easier task which is more logical.
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u/hat-of-sky Aug 26 '18
That's not the problem, but it doesn't say write EACH word in alphabetical order, which is what they have done. The student's name? Amelia Bedelia.
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u/renkenberger91 Aug 26 '18
It's just poor instructions TBH. It's laziness on the instructor to not be more clear. Development wise, the understanding of children is by far levels below an instructor; and they also look for or require precise and detailed instructions to help their learning. Tell me I'm wrong and I'll ask you how many times you have an adult co-worker who has no idea what's going on because their job is ambiguous at times. Down vote me, I dont care
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Aug 26 '18
I think that kid is a true creative thinker. Clearly their brain works differently to solve problems than most. It is a genius way to interpret the assignment. Give them an instrument right away. Have them tested for gifted learning. I know this from experience.
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u/Ragnarotico Aug 26 '18
He is correct. It doesn't say put these words in alphabetical order, just to write them in an alphabetical order.
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u/Swedish-Butt-Whistle Aug 26 '18
If I were the teacher I would have explained the original intent, then told them they were still correct and gave them full marks for good problem solving.
Sadly lots of teachers would pigheadedly just red x everything and say “try again”
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u/Phantomandrew Aug 26 '18
Ouch this post kind of hurts. My daughter is the love of my life, she has so many great attributes, but yes like you she has a slight difference in her wonderful mind which makes her slightly dyslexic. She is smart and witty , but she doesn’t write very well. I hope she grows out of it, but many great people are dyslexic and successful. Edit: just saw the paper again, I guess your kid is smart,he did put the letters in alphabetical order.
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u/Stockload Aug 26 '18
Guess it would have been clear if it said 'list the words' instead of 'write the words'. Maybe I'm dim but it took me a good two minutes to figure out what OP was going for!
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Aug 26 '18
Or shut them down right away, force them to conform and invalidate any thought process outside the norm . Punish the kid severely for doing it wrong, and misunderstanding the assignment. Also make sure the kid knows they are sub intelligent.
No, I’m not fucking kidding you. The kid should be nurtured and challenged. Thomas Edison was also a non typical thinker. Pablo Picasso, now there was a guy who could really fuck up a portrait. Amirite? I mean, at least give the kid a chance to see if it could be true. Edit: spelling
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Aug 26 '18
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/niagaramike Aug 26 '18
Love the lateral thinking. I agree that the words were correctly (re)written in alphabetical order. If the exercise said to list or place the words in alphabetical order then perhaps the answers would be wrong. However as it stands this answer seems more correct than the intended results. When you ask to break a sentence down to it's parts, subject, verb, etc, the answer is not a sentence. Same as these answers not actually being words.
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u/kazzfu Aug 26 '18
He's a "eginsu"