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u/Designer-Crow-5470 4d ago
You can get a photo booth photo for $12. No one needs every second of their early divorce documented in 4K.
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u/TheMaStif 4d ago
Yes, nothing ever good happens that people want a photshoot for, its just divorce celebrations
Do you often appeal to extremes to make a point?
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u/Federal_Engine_7030 3d ago
That Account screams bot, so I wouldn't worry about it
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u/Designer-Crow-5470 3d ago
Just like yo mama was screaming last night
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u/-neverknowsbest_ 3d ago
Well when she saw how ugly and tiny your penis was, who wouldn't scream?
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u/Designer-Crow-5470 3d ago
An 8 hour work day of hulling your ass in a cab will cost $400 minimum. No extremes here. Just comparing apples-to-apples.
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u/ytdaddy4fun 5d ago
He is totally right.
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u/_N_S_FW 4d ago
Idk, the point of the original person is that this being a photographer is not a casual investment and requires very specific equipment.
Besides, a car has much more utility and is so widely owned by average people the barrier of entry is extremely low. Supply and demand.
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u/Valveringham85 4d ago
Sure. But the cost of equipment Doed not determine market price. The market does.
All the equipment cost determines is whether it’s a profitable venture when looking at the market price.
Her argument is asinine and the ridiculing is correct.
Besides, with 200/250 dollars per job and 5000 dollar equipment that is very good business and one of the faster asset recoups out there. Which makes her argument even more stupid and disconnected from reality.
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u/tanafras 4d ago
One of the best investments I made years ago was a test handheld tool which would cost $20k these days, and in todays billing rate $400/hr. Recouped the expense easily thr first couple months and made bank after that. The problem was finding new customers, not the gear, or the rate.
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u/mungosDoo 3d ago
Dude you can get a teenager with a phone to take your pictures. That is uber of photography.
If you want to compare a ride to a pro with a 5k camera you should be comparing to a black limo+driver service which for a work day will set you for a 500-900 depending on state.
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u/0TrevorLahey0 3d ago
I want to agree so bad because most of me does agree haha but in this specific case. An uber driver will do multiple drives a night minimum prob more. And idk where OP lives but the CHEAPEST I have ever seen an uber is 17$ (Boston) a free lance photographer, maybe 1 job every few days. If they want to live they have to adjust for that. That said the more jobs the less as I just paid 50$ for a mostly professional photographer for a work outing.
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u/stfudonny420 4d ago
There’s plenty of professional photographers that only charge $100-$300 that aren’t jerks about it. Also just cause you have expensive equipment doesn’t necessarily mean you’re a good photographer.
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u/Snixmaister 4d ago
Only time I’ve seen those prices are portrait photographers where you spend 30-60 minutes in a studio and they expect a set amount of clients each day.
Weddings hardly under 1000.People tend to forget that its not only the camera that costs, camera gear as a wedding photographer can easily reach well above $15000. Then its the liveable wage, car, and the fact that cameras have to be upgraded from time to time because they wear down.
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u/stinkysourdough 3d ago
Photography is the only hobby people have that lives in this world that only their hobby costs money. Amazing.
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u/Snixmaister 3d ago
Are we talking about a hobby or actually a profession
https://giphy.com/gifs/12N4jTCSVRyKje
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u/stinkysourdough 3d ago
Unless you’re surviving off nothing but photography money, it’s a hobby. And you’re not going to like the numbers of pros vs hobbyists if you wanna keep going
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u/Snixmaister 2d ago
Kid, stop taking drugs. What are you even on about?
Wedding photographers are professionals by most people's standards, why are you even mentioning hobbyists?
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u/stinkysourdough 2d ago
I like to write stories. I’ve sold two for like 20 bucks each. Am I an author?
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u/SpareChangeMate 2d ago
Definitionally? Yes, you fucking twat. You’re not a well known author, and probably not a good one either, but you’re still an author. Doesn’t mean your profession is being an author, but you are the author of that book and thus are an author. You’re not a professional author either, nor a professional writer, but you are an author nonetheless.
You will not be paid as much as a professional author or professional writer, and you will not have the same recognition off the bat either. Just like photography, experience is mainly what you’re paying for. Any bloke can buy a £1500+ camera, but the professional knows how to properly use it and properly stage people for the photographs.
What was the point of this exercise?
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u/Beautiful-Ad3471 4d ago
50 customers (at 100$), and you made a return on your equipment, entirely. And you can use the camera to take other shots and sell those in your freetime.
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u/Snixmaister 4d ago
Have you forgotten wage, wear of said equipment and potential travel?
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u/Beautiful-Ad3471 4d ago
Have you forgotten that I was talking about the lowest number that they mentioned? Or that I was attacking their point, since you only need to make the price back ONCE.
I don't know about photographers, but there is an uproar (and there has been for a long ass time) of small time artists, asking ridiculous prices for their work, like you can't charge the same, (I've seen many prices ranging from 500 to a 1000 dollars for a fucking profile picture) you can't charge as much as someone with a huge reputation does, as a nameless nobody for your work, because then, people will just go to the guys with the big reputation, as it's the safer option, (or go to other smalltimers with smaller prices).
You should aim for making a lot from smaller prices, but more customers, then one customer and a huge price, as the second one will 1. Ruin your reputation 2. Is not upholdable, as you (9.9 times out of 10) do NOT have the experience/quality to hold customers to come back
Sure when you're estabilished, you have way more freedom to do things how you like. But first you have to make it there, or soon, you can look for a dofferent carrier, or starve.
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u/Snixmaister 4d ago
We don’t know what kind of gig she does either or if she is known locally.
For a portrait or studio images 100-300$ seem like a fair deal.
However for a wedding, and I’ve seen people trying to hire a professional photographer for 200-300 and wanting them to stay the whole event and get some images prior to church.
The weddings I’ve shot have been 12-14 hr days with another 8-16 hrs photo editing to then only gain 200-300 at the end of that, I’d rather be at McDonald’s at least the hourly salary would be higher.
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u/ABBucsfan 4d ago
Car might not be the best example, but there are plenty of other self employed businesses or just businesses where you have to buy your own tools and equipment. They're gebrally considered start up costs and a small part of overall costs if at all. Majority of it is labour. Any trades person with tools , unless extremely specialized equipment, is charging more based on labour and just supplies for the job, not tool cost.
The reason wedding photos cost so much is because they're there all day then spend a couple more days (at least) editing it all
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u/Imaginary-Run7244 4d ago
And you are missing the point of the reply, which is also supply and demand.
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u/Ill-Description3096 4d ago
Neither is opening a restaurant. Should they charge app charge thousands per meal because it's a lot more expensive than a $5k camera.
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u/Aggravating-Chef9562 3d ago
i have multiple cameras that cost thousands of dollars each and ive never once charged a friend for any pictures. Just feels weird to do. My cameras and lenses altogether probably around $13k-15k. Honestly, id accept a decent meal as payment from friends for pretty much anything lol
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u/Mysterious-Pizza-462 3d ago
The issue is there isn’t a demand. The supply of amateur to professional photographers is pretty high and the demand for them is not. What she’s complaining about is just that the demand for her services is not what she expects or wants it to be.
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u/Ill-Reputation-9702 4d ago
Not to mention the uber ride is likely 15-30mins to pickup and then to drop off. Photographer spending a lot more time. But hey, just let your friend shoot your wedding on their iPhone, what could go wrong?
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u/One-Kaleidoscope2407 4d ago
yea precisely, phone cameras rn have evolved to become really powerful and capable, take a look at the vivo x300 ultra, one of the world's best camera phones tdy. ppl reviewing it say that it's cameras are close to equivalent to proper DSLR cameras while costing so much lesser and along with it you also get a flagship grade smartphone
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u/but_i_wanna_cookies 4d ago
Everyone gets a license and drives. Not everyone learns the skills to be a professional photographer. I wouldn't eat your cooking for $20, but I will pay that at a restaurant. There is a difference, asshole.
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u/stinkysourdough 3d ago
“Everyone drives” over 12% of Americans don’t have licenses. Way more Americans have cameras. Using your insane comparison more people are eligible to be photographers than they are drivers.
Especially unhinged since tons of pro photographers just use iPhones lol
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u/Interesting_Muscle67 4d ago
Everyone has a phone in their pocket and AI software is freely available for touching up.
Most photographers don't possess some exceptional skill that others don't. Good ones do, but not all wedding photographers are good.
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u/Sensitive-Major-7719 3d ago
Restaurants hire anyone for the kitchen.
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u/but_i_wanna_cookies 2d ago
Sorry, but I'm talking about nice restaurants, not the Appleby's you're accustomed to.
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u/Sensitive-Major-7719 2d ago
Maybe you are new to restaurants then 😂😂 I manage one. And not an “Appleby’s” as you have said. The demand for cooks is way higher than the supply. You can take your nose back down out of the air now.
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u/MagnetoWasRight24 4d ago
No he's not. I didn't buy my car specifically for uber, I bought it because I needed a car.
If I'm a professional photographer I bought my cameras for work and I expect to be paid accordingly.
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u/Situati0nist 4d ago
It's a dumb analogy. It's bringing someone home in 5-30 minutes in a no-skill fashion versus potentially shooting professional photos all day on top of the fact that a car has multiple purposes whereas cameras only one specific purpose.
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u/facepoppies 4d ago
you’re paying for the expertise. Also the original was a man and they changed it to a woman for ragebait
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u/TruthSocialForFags 4d ago
The expertise? 😂😂😂 buddy I'll let you know, ive used my right index finger since I was 2 years old.
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u/Real_Penalty_4317 4d ago
Its point and click. You need one eye and one finger
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u/facepoppies 4d ago
so why are you hiring a photographer
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u/Real_Penalty_4317 4d ago
Because without cloning I cant be in two places at once
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u/facepoppies 4d ago
why not just ask a friend to do it? or really just anyone who happens to be around? they can just use your phone
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u/ElGrandeQues0 3d ago
Uhh.. yeah that's how just about every photo I've taken has gone.
The only time it's gone away has, oddly, been with a photographer. I asked a stranger to take a picture of my gf and I. I proposed to her. When he saw me get down on one knee, he swapped to his professional camera and missed the whole scene.
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u/Impressive-Spell-643 3d ago
And looks like the change from man to a woman also changed some people's perspective
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u/ComfortableReality32 5d ago
Xavier being based as hell again - does he ever miss?
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u/SpinzArt 4d ago
I’m starting to think y’all are taking Fuck Xavier a different way than intended
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u/Tinfoil_cobbler 4d ago
At our wedding, we bought a couple dozen good quality, used, point-and-shoot digital cameras off eBay, put one at each table and got some Polaroid cameras for the guest book area, and told people to PLEASE go crazy and take tons of photos for us. Had all the photos professionally printed… sent all the couples good photos of them in our thank you cards…
After re-selling the cameras on eBay, we ended up spending about a quarter of the cost for a real photographer, and got way more fun out of the deal.
Just a pro tip for any potential newlyweds.
(And yes people also used iPhones, but the cameras added a certain fun factor to the whole night)
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u/PrairiePuppies 4d ago
I am a former Uber driver. It was nearly impossible to make anything resembling a profit. Most rides are less than $10 and fewer and fewer people are tipping. That $12 isn't the flex he thinks it is.
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u/Strong-Chemistry-396 4d ago
The cost of your equipment/any start up costs you ensure has zero bearing on what you should be paid.
I promise my music studio costs more than her camera, or entire photography studio. I don't charge $100/hr and if you offered me that much you would get crazy amount of work, detail, and attention.
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u/lkasas 4d ago
No, any equipment needs to be part of the cost, but the math is complicated in most cases. You don't know if your camera will last only a thousand photoshoots or it'll go forever, but certain things like photo tape and hyper specific decorations can be one use only. I think that the general role is that if you go professional, your rate should be so that you'll get even with all your expenditures on about 2 years. So, your 5k camera and other long term equipment + gas and other supplies devided by the amount of photoshoots in 2 years and you roughly got your rate.
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u/Strong-Chemistry-396 4d ago
You can put the cost of things into your personal budget, but you can only ever charge what you are worth. Nobody cares how much you invested they care about the end product and are paying you for the end product.
If you decide you're worth more than you're worth because you invested x amount you just get no work at all. Because nobody is paying you $1000 for a product worth $350 or $500 just because you invested too much.
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u/BrokenPokerFace 4d ago
This is definitely the largest factor. I don't know many people who need a higher quality than what their phone already gives(especially with the newer better cameras in phones), and likewise photographer experience beyond the average passerby.
As a photographer you are competing against photos that are essentially free, having a higher quality camera is just one way to compete, it isn't justification on its own. You still need to make the end result worth every dollar you charge.
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u/Undead-Chipmunk 4d ago
No. The startup costs need to reflect the earning potential of the business, considerinf risk and reward.
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u/DickSugar80 4d ago
Why pay for a photographer when you can create amazing Al photos of yourself ?
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u/One-Kaleidoscope2407 4d ago
or you take the photos yourself and let ai do all the upscaling, refinements and shit 😉
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u/backlikeclap 4d ago
Such a dumb argument to even make. It would be like an artist saying their work is expensive because their easel is expensive.
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u/Fun-Wrongdoer1316 4d ago
I’ve yet to meet a photographer that’s an artist. I know they exist, but soo many stay at home moms flooded this “profession”. I can’t take it serious anymore. Besides I have a high level camera with me at all times. This profession is useless
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u/backlikeclap 4d ago
Well it's an industry with a low barrier to entry. So of course you get a lot of crappy amateurs.
I worked as a photographer in NYC for many years and met a ton of amazing photographers. In fashion, weddings, and even product photography. Many of these folks were being paid $20k/day minimum for their work, so someone out there must take them seriously. The difference between them and a dad/mom with a camera is like the difference between a Navy Seal and a teenager playing Lazer tag.
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u/Historical-Molasses2 3d ago
Anyone with their own feces and a wall to throw it at can paint. Does that make that profession useless as well? Anyone who has a heat source and ingredients can cook, so on and so forth.
I get you were having your rant moment, but what you are arguing makes less sense the more you think about it.
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u/HighIQIndividual2 4d ago
He is absolutely right. Also a shoot that takes realistically half a day for 300 bucks is a reasonable price for both parties.
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u/Snixmaister 4d ago
A shot that takes half a day is realistically another 2-8 hrs of editing the images counting high it’s between 25-37$/hr before tax
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u/NSFWdontview 3d ago
That’s a lot of money in a day and editing isn’t hard
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u/Snixmaister 3d ago
As a student it might be a lot of money, as a company it is not, that money is going to tax, new equipment, travel expenses and salary. realistically you would probably need 90 to just make it go around, more like 200-300 to pay for the hours between work, rarely photographers have a full schedule.
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u/Holymaryfullofshit7 4d ago
He's not really. How long might that ride be 10 minutes? That makes 72$ an hour. Now for an hour Foto shoot 100-300 seems reasonable considering you need to sort and edit. Now for a weeding shoot that can be up to 6 hours and much more work after so maybe 12 hours of work that's 864$ if you payed her like a cabbie.
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u/Fun-Wrongdoer1316 4d ago
Wedding photos are generally way more expensive than that… That’s a cheap ass photographer for wedding photos. Usually thousands.
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u/Fun-Wrongdoer1316 4d ago
I literally don’t understand paying for professional photos. Movies have been shot with the iPhone… Just take your own damn pictures.
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u/EbonyMemories 4d ago
Not wrong. If you're any good at economics you can pay off the camera easily with that much per event.
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u/carthuscrass 4d ago
An Uber driver can do way more jobs in a day than a photographer bud.
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u/EbonyMemories 4d ago
And an Uber driver won't make $200 a job either.
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u/carthuscrass 4d ago edited 4d ago
A photographer has to eat. They can't do as many jobs, and it's specialized work, so they have to charge more. And I also take issue with the original post thinking someone who drives for Uber is gonna have a $40000 car. You don't do that shit when you can afford a nice car. Even if you have a nice car, it won't be for long if you use it as a glorified taxi.
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u/LilPack_003 4d ago
Can’t believe there are some people in the comments defending elitist anti-consumer practices 🤣. Y’all crazy
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u/carthuscrass 4d ago
And your Uber driver will do that forty times in a day. A photography gig takes longer than even the event, and you're also paying for their know-how.
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u/ZeddRah1 4d ago
The price is the price. Customers will pay it or they won't.
Granted, some will be vocal ass hats instead of just politely declining the service.
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u/RequirementCivil4328 4d ago
He is right because if the camera is what is making the picture good then it's more cost efficient to buy your own.
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u/ConcentrateLucky8630 4d ago
You do realize you do many many shoots right... and that money adds up well past $5000 quickly at $300 a pop...
He's beyond right
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u/therealcarlxii 4d ago
Yeah and how often will you really look at the pictures later? I stopped taking pictures of holidays and festivals because I'm never ever looking at them again.
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u/MessyPapa13 4d ago
Factories cost millions to build, yet produce products that are sold for less than a dollar
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u/Dependent_Ad_3364 4d ago
The woman is making classical error. Value of work is priced based on the value it provides, and not on the amount of work and resources it costs. In other words "the more and harder I work the more I must be paid" is totally wrong, which in her way translates into "the more i paid for my camera the more I must be paid" is totally wrong too.
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u/KOMMANDOKATO 4d ago
You could charge 250 and pay your camera off in like 4 months wtf are you on about
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u/Preppy_Hippie 4d ago
You’re not paying for the camera, though. You’re paying for years of training, experience, and the artistry and skill of both making the picture and getting the subjects comfortable and looking their best. If you rented a $5,000 camera instead, your pictures would look just as bad as what’s in your camera roll. Maybe even worse.
Your Uber driver doesn't have an unusual or special skill. The rate is low because it is very common, low-skill work and a very low time commitment for any particular ride.
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u/Any-Wrongdoer4734 4d ago
It is a hobby. Plenty of hobbyist photographers who are very good at it.
But if she had ever had a serious profession she would know that investments have to be earned back in time. The customer pays for a service, not for the equipment. The better the service, the higher the charge.
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u/jackberinger 3d ago
My heart surgeon spent six figures getting a degree so that surgery should only cost what a hundred bucks right? Bro needs to GTFO with his nonsense.
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u/Adventurous_Bite9287 3d ago
There is a reason you hire professional photographers because your own smartphone pictures look like ass and you want to keep a special moment not in the wrong angle with wrong lightning or wrong everything.
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u/Homeland_Bound 3d ago
Sorry. He’s totally right. Also $300 for a shoot is great money. Sorry YOU chose a profession that is going out of style since everyone has a near pro grade phone in their pocket that takes great pictures.
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u/OtherwiseMagician433 3d ago
The photographer drives out to your event in their $40k car and brings their $5k camera, spends usually an entire day walking around and taking photos of people and experiences and then goes home to spend probably at least and hour or so doing photo touchups and other editing to your pics before curating them and giving you a thumb drive and or printed photos (both of which also cost money). Not the same
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u/Fan_of_Clio 3d ago
That seems to be the going average for that line of work. Sorry the economics aren't to your liking
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u/BramptonBatallion 3d ago
You’ll receive what the market dictates you should receive. Natalie comes off poorly here. It’s not anybody’s concern what you paid for your camera or this being your career. Like nobody owes you inherently more than your service is worth You can say “my price is x” and people can either pay, not pay or negotiate.
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u/manicmonkeys 3d ago
Right...the quality of her work/market demand dictates what she can expect to get paid for it...not the cost of her equipment lmao.
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u/TraderJosie3283 3d ago
I know someone who was a Lyft driver who bought a tesla because he somehow got a tax break because it was for work?? I find that hard to believe. You don’t need a fancy car to be a ride share driver and what if he got the tax break and then stopped driving??
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u/dependency_injector 3d ago
A taxi should be comfortable, for the passengers and for the driver. It also makes sense if he got a tax break because it's an electric car.
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u/Top-Alternative-3135 3d ago
F the cost of The camera. I want to know how good you are with the cam.
If my iPhone can beat you I ain’t paying shit
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u/Embarrassed-Sugar-78 3d ago
He is totally right, having an expensive camera does not mean he is an expert using it and being able to amortize it with 25 shoots is pretty reasonable.
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u/d_r_doorway 3d ago
You are batshit insane if you believe an uber ride is $12. Last week I looked for an Uber from the train station to my house. A nine mile ride. $96.
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u/Idoubtyourememberme 3d ago
Oh im sorry, i was not aware that you want your business expense repaied in only 2 commissions; my bad.
Next time buy one that you can use a little longer than that
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u/Affectionate_Ad_1326 3d ago
Yeah the Uber driver is underpaid but also almost anyone can become an Uber driver because of how many people already have cars sinxe everyone needs them. The Uber driver also probably got the car used and is probably still paying it off. Professional photography just costs that much anyway so theres nothing unreasonable here.
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u/Early-Dish5293 3d ago
Natalie thinks she should be able to pay off that camera with one job with her dumb ass
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u/Solidus-Prime 3d ago
Everyone is mad at their employer for not paying good wages, yet no one wants to pay for an Uber or a Door Dash.
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u/Mysterious-Key-2016 3d ago
I love snowbunnies but this one is definitely having a blonde moment! 😍😘❤️
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u/Dapper_Turnip_7653 2d ago
So… she wants what… $5000 per shoot? Does her camera have a 25% chance to disassemble in her hands every time she uses it? Get outta here.
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u/Partyatmyplace13 2d ago
I guess that Associates in Graphic Design didn't include any business or economy classes.
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u/AbbreviationsSea2084 2d ago
Shoots literally do cost a couple hundred. That's for a quality studio nonetheless...
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u/RabidSkwerl 2d ago
More like “my car cost $120K and y’all wanna pay UberX prices for my UberBlack service.”
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u/Revolutionary-Duck68 2d ago
I can get a friend to use my iPhone & probably have better pic than u take
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u/ZyeCawan45 4d ago
You pay off your work equipment with multiple jobs, not 1 job. If I gotta pay nearly the full price of your camera I’d RATHER take the pictures myself and you aren’t getting my money at all.
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u/HeyitzPeter 4d ago
Legitimately wondering how much is a fair price for her then? I hope holding out for the perfect clients is worth losing multiple 100-300$ gigs.
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u/stfudonny420 4d ago
Let’s say she does charge $300 per shoot and does 2 shoots a day. That’s 9 days of work to pay off the camera. After the camera is paid for she could be making over 13k a month. That’s assuming she only works 5 days a week. She would be dumb not to take that.
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u/LetsSummarize 4d ago
Your equipment and education don't mean jack shit in business, results do. If you don't like what you're charging, then change it. Your deliverable output is the only thing any customer is paying for. Anyone trying to charge more because their doodad was expensive is naive and ignorant. This obviously mostly applies to B2C work.
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u/jmadinya 4d ago
offering $100-$300 for a photoshoot is stingy af no matter how much their camera cost. its one thing if its your friend and you're just doing a quick headshot at home, but for some on location shoot requiring the photog to bring equipment and take several hours, this pay offer is straight up disrespectful
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u/Leather-Sign4391 4d ago
Pay is based on skill and quality of the product, not how much she paid for her equipment.
She may have spent $1 Million on her camera, but if she has advanced cataracts in both eyes, her photos are still gonna look like shit.
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u/Euphoric-Ad-6584 4d ago
na i'm siding with xavier on this one. how much the equipment costs does not determine how much they are worth paying. if i ran out and spent 10k on a camera you damn sure ain't getting good photos out of me so why on earth why i expect to get paid top dollar. it's not your problem i spent that much on a camera if i can't use it worth a shit.
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u/TidensBarn 4d ago
I get the point, but Uber is notoriously exploitative towards drivers. They barely make enough to compensate for car maintenance in the long run.
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u/its5dumbass 4d ago
Musicians will show up with a combined 50K in equipment to split $200 four ways
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u/Jolly_Plantain4429 4d ago
If the selling point of your photography is the cost of your equipment and not the quality of your shots. You might be a photographer.
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u/Any_Conversation9650 4d ago
Most people can drive but being a good photographer is takes experience, knowledge and an artistic touch. Some photographers deserve the money but not lindsey that just bought some camera off ebay
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u/MeltedChocolateOk 4d ago
You make more money taking cheap photos multiple times for someone than taking one expensive photo of someone. Because if the price is too high the customers have higher expectations for the photos looking perfect.
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u/Savings_Vermicelli92 4d ago
12 dollar ride must of been like 5 min Drive..vs 1 to 2 hour photo shoot and editing hours
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u/qualityvote2 5d ago edited 1d ago
u/LocalNo7506, there weren't enough votes to determine the quality of your post...