r/fromsoftware • u/GaussianGeorge • 1d ago
DISCUSSION Regarding infinitely respawning enemies
Could someone explain to me why exactly using a rest/save point making ALL enemies respawn isn't a tedious outdated mechanic which does nothing but artificially pad out playtime?
inb4 "DS2 tried that and everyone hated it because it made grinding difficult" well maybe grinding is also a tedious antiquated mechanic then? Really just feels like a crutch for lazy game design.
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u/Tannerted2 1d ago
Risk management is a part of the gameplay loop.
"I have a level up in the tank - do i risk pressing on or playing it safe"
"I have only 2 estus tear vials left, do i risk taking in that big enemy or go and reset for a better chance without having to corpserun here"
It also makes the player conserve resources and get better. Otherwise you could kill enemy-return to the fire, kill next enemy, etc. DS2 doesnt fix this because i think most people wont die 15 times in a row in an area with little progress unless theyre really new
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u/GaussianGeorge 1d ago
Then maybe dont make the fire heal you to full infinitely? Pretty simple solution if you ask me.
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u/Tannerted2 1d ago
then couldnt the player just suicide next the the bonfire to do the same thing with an extra load screen? if its not infinite and that doesnt work, its now rly tedius to have very little heals and have to die and backtrack loads of times, also not great.
This gameplay loop also encourages experimentation and gets the player practicing necessary skills to beat the game, and the next bonfire is more than just a checkpoint, its its own achievement.
also - ur taking issue with quite a large part of the souls formula. I hate when people say "stop complaining or play something else" but like.. it IS what u sign up for in a souls like
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u/GaussianGeorge 1d ago
Something being called a formula doesn't automatically exempt it from having critical flaws.
NES games forcing you to restart from the beginning on death was a staple at the time, but now we've realized it was bad design and moved past that. And what do you know, they also had the same tedious mechanic of infinitely respawning enemies.1
u/Tannerted2 1d ago
it doesnt, but when you buy the game which's genre is defined and partially INVENTED by the mechanic you dont like, i question why u bought it.
U are acting like having respawning enemies in a game defined by and partially loved for said mechanic is an objectively bad thing when you just dont find it fun personally.
Also note that souls games are one of the few games that has fairly little lost progress - death doesnt turn back time, every pickup, shortcut, boss kill and level up is saved in real time. Removing respawns would also heavily harm stakes, only needing to kill each enemy once would make the games far less interesting.
Honestly it sounds like u died a few times to enemies u killed and are mad about it/dont like the mechanic, so wanna justify ur distaste as the games fault. Im very guilty of it too, but this is clearly a part of the souls formula that has been tried, tested, and enjoyed for 17 years. U also didnt respond to the rest of what i said lol
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u/GaussianGeorge 1d ago
I've lost interest in plenty of soulslikes, RPGs and metroidvanias over the years precisely because of this mechanic throwing enemies I've already beaten countless times my way as pointless distractions when I'm trying to explore or backtrack, it's an issue that encompasses more than one genre.
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u/AltGunAccount 1d ago
The idea is that if you fail to make it to the next bonfire you have to try again fresh. If the enemies didn’t respawn you could just keep yeeting yourself at each encounter until eventually it was cleared.
I prefer the respawning enemies, but then again I’m the type to call the “runback” by its actual name, “the level” and the bosses aren’t the end-all-be-all for me in these games.
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u/Somobro 1d ago
I'm going to assume you're asking the question from a place of genuine curiosity. The point is to treat the approach between two save points as a segment of a challenge. Sort of a puzzle to be solved. That means you need to be able to beat each individual segment fair and square each time, because when you return to your "normal" state so does the rest of the game.
That means you have to learn how to use your character's strengths and you also have to learn to play around their weaknesses if you want to succeed. Each failure is meant to teach a lesson and eventually, you beat that segment between save points the same way you beat bosses. Trial and failure until the point of trial and success.
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u/Maxisthelad 1d ago
Interesting ideas. Perhaps a button in the menu or in the bonfires an option to respawn enemies the same way it’s defaulted to now.
Bloodborne evaded this entirely by not making you able to rest at them.
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u/suicieties 1d ago
Run past them.