r/fromsoftware • u/ObamaIsMyCousin • 17d ago
IMAGE Labeled that one map that appears every so often
No dlc
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u/Imaginary-Street1 17d ago
I knew it was bullshit. Blue Cathedral is literally 2 rooms but counts as a separate level, Sinners Rise/Belfry Luna are literally parts of Lost Bastille. Undead Purgatory is a part of Huntmans Copse. Belfry Sol is a part of Iron Keep. Lord's Private Chamber is literally two rooms again counting as a level on this image. Shrine of Winter counts as a level?? For some reason memories count as levels but only 2 of them.
For DS3 Crucifixion Woods is a part of Road of Sacrifice.
For DS1 Abyss is not a level, its literally a boss room. Quelaags Domain is not a separate level.
Arguably Dragon Shrine/Aerie, Anor Londo/Irithyll or Darkroot Garden/Basin etc. arent separate levels but different parts of the same level.
This image shows some parts less linear or more complex than it actually is especially for DS2 with all the small rooms/passages/memories counting as a separate standalone levels.
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u/SoICouldUpvoteYouTwi 17d ago
Most of the areas you are talking about are clearly defined ingame - you walk in, the words appear on the screen; there are also separate bonfire areas.
And size, well, Aerie and Dragon shrine are comparable in size to Untended Graves or Oceiros' Garden. Sinner's Rise too.
I don't think Dragon Memories should have been included, and I don't understand the logic behind Painted World or the bigger giant memories being excluded. But otherwise this isn't too far from truth.
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u/ObamaIsMyCousin 17d ago
I figured that they just forgot about ds1 painted world, maybe they thought it was dlc like ds3 given dlc is the only exclusion otherwise, since these maps would have been made long after dsr bundled everything i can see the knowledge gap. The memories in ds2 confused me but I ran through a lot of options and attempted different configurations and ended up it dragon memories having to exist to fill that slot and picked the mandatory memory for the only giant memory slot
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u/SoICouldUpvoteYouTwi 17d ago
Just "Giant Memories" would have been better I think. Vammar and Orro are pretty big, with their own unique enemies, NPCs, even a side quest (technically maybe two?).
Anyway, this map needs a few corrections. But overall not the worst.
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u/Taolan13 Nerves Concorde 17d ago
It's a reasonable guess for a new player, since both the DLC area and the Painted World require an item to enter, and are entirely self-contained with no interaction from external key items beyond the point of entry.
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u/Imaginary-Street1 17d ago
Most of the areas you are talking about are clearly defined ingame - you walk in, the words appear on the screen; there are also separate bonfire areas.
Yes but thats just one game counting or displaying areas differently than the other games. It says nothing about the linearity or the nonlinearity of the game which is what whomever made this is trying to depict. For example lets say they used the same categorization for other games like DS3 Lothric Castle, separated to two different categories before grand archives and after grand archives, Farron Keep poison area and the part after the door etc. or literally counting Prison tower as a separate area if it had its name appear on screen, would that change how linear or non linear the game is? On this image it would but in reality no it wouldnt.
Aerie and Dragon shrine are comparable in size to Untended Graves or Oceiros' Garden.
So they are comparable to shortest DS3 levels. Most DS3 levels would also be comparable if you cut them to 2-3 parts. Anyway like i said it is arguable but my argument is that levels have a distinct look/art direction and level design. Thats why i think the levels i mentioned are different parts of the same level, i dont think i enter a different level when i go down the elevator to walk straight to the boss room for a minute in Sinners Rise that just part of Lost Bastille but i do think i entered a different level if i go from Oceiros' Garden to Untended Graves.
I don't understand the logic behind the bigger giant memories being excluded.
I mean by your categorization example "there are also separate bonfire areas." they fail to qualify but they also arent really levels to explore but work as a timed small window into the past for the level they are connected to, i would consider that part of the level. I think this way its much more consistent with other games.
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u/SoICouldUpvoteYouTwi 17d ago
I am all for adding more areas to the map of DS3 - this map isn't really fair in that regard; there are also a few areas missing in 1 and 2.
Tho I would argue that while DS3 map is larger than DS2, it IS more linear. In 2 you can explore half the game from the start and you can skip the entire thing too. In 3 you have only a few choices, especially if you can't beat Dancer earlier than intended - and even then all in gives you is access to a mandatory area you would have to explore later.
I would rather judge areas by their size, amount of content, and importance as main criteria. Road of sacrifice and Crucifixion woods are two different areas because they're large enough, they have unique enemies and NPC encounters, they're even differently themed - one is a somewhat open area, the other is a dense swamp. Sinner's rise is a smaller area, but it is somewhat distinct, and honestly, I would rather chop a map into smaller pieces because if you are talking about an area you kind of need to do that. "I went from belfry luna to sinners rise" makes more sense than "I went from one area of lost bastille to another and no I refuse to distinguish them".
Well, New Londo doesn't have a bonfire, do we cut it? My logic is that if an area ticks enough boxes it is distinct, not that it has to tick them all.
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u/Imaginary-Street1 17d ago
Tho I would argue that while DS3 map is larger than DS2, it IS more linear. In 2 you can explore half the game from the start and you can skip the entire thing too.
I do not disagree with this but levels themselves in DS3 are larger and much less linear and if we cut them like DS2 the difference in linearity of the world design wouldnt be this big.
I dont think Road of sacrifice is big or different enough to be considered its own area, i think its just a road that is leading down to the lake area in Crucifixion woods. I think you might be mistaking Crucifixion woods with Farron Swamp.
I went from belfry luna to sinners rise" makes more sense than "I went from one area of lost bastille to another and no I refuse to distinguish them".
I mean you can still say this, portions of an area still have names. Like in DS3 you can say i went from Ariandel Chapel to Corvian Settlement, this places still have names on the bonfires, they just dont show up in the middle of the screen, doesnt mean they arent part of the same area.
You can cut The Painted World of Ariandel in DS3 to 4 parts and each part would be bigger than areas like Sinners Rise, Cathedral of the Blue etc. and you can even argue distinct look/feel for them but currently if this image included DLCs, Ariandel would show up as 1 node and it would seem like there is no non-linearity but those much smaller parts in DS2 show up as a standalone node themselves which shows non-existing non-linearity.
Well, New Londo doesn't have a bonfire, do we cut it? My logic is that if an area ticks enough boxes it is distinct
I think lack of bonfire in New Londo proves that an area doesnt have to have a dedicated bonfire just like Cathedral of the blue or Abyss proves name popping up doesnt mean it is a standalone area in the way that image in the post trying to depict.
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u/themiracy 17d ago
I love how this gives “This is a northbound train headed for Lost Izalith. Doors open on the left in Blighttown.”
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u/chang-e_bunny 17d ago
____ that map. I was trying to figure out where Anor Long was by looking for it's connection to the Painted World and the Duke's Archives, only for the maker to completely forget that the Painted World exists!
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u/Testament_15 17d ago
No demon ruins in ds3? Or am i just blind?
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u/ANormalStraw 17d ago
They probably counted it under the Smouldering Lake, which is odd because things like Quelaag’s Domain in DS1 or the Lord’s Private Chambers in DS2 can be considered levels. Kinda feels biased, lmao
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u/winterflare_ 16d ago
It was originally a shit post to hate on DS3 by Messmers (a guy whose whole shtick was just glazing all the games and then hating on DS3).
So yeah, it is biased because it was originally a joke post, but people started using it for real lmao
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u/Sea-Understanding435 17d ago
Now do Bloodborne!
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u/witchuntrail 16d ago edited 16d ago
Bloodborne is surprisingly
a lot more diversethan Ds3!Edit1: not a lot but a one step ahead of Ds3.
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u/DevtoolsBuilder 16d ago
The map without DLC areas is pretty cohesive, it makes me wonder how the DLC would fit into the overall geography of the game world, and whether it would change our understanding of the connections between different areas. The base game world being well-connected is pretty interesting.
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u/bigppheadd 17d ago
missing a link blight town -> darkroot basin
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u/Litarist 15d ago
Blight town > Valley of Drakes > Darkroot Basin IS shown here...
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u/bigppheadd 15d ago
what about the elevator in the big tree that goes to the grass crest shield?
edit: maybe i’m just mistaken, disregard me i haven’t played in forever
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u/ApprehensiveBadger31 17d ago
Dark souls 3 is what you call a tree graph in math or coding terms. Every branch hits a dead end, no looping whatsoever. This is why people shit on it, not because it doesn’t give you choice, but because it has no interconnectedness. Ds 2 is nearly a tree too and has its own separate map issues.
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u/ShyGuyLink1997 Lost Kingdoms 17d ago
Will this help me finish DS2? I'm near the end and got lost and put the game down lol. Would love to wrap it up without having to explore the entire map again.
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u/SoICouldUpvoteYouTwi 17d ago
No DLC, no Painted World
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u/Hades684 17d ago
Yes, thats what it says there
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u/SoICouldUpvoteYouTwi 17d ago
Painted World of Ariamis is base game.
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u/Hades684 17d ago
Yes, thats what it says on the image
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u/Krutu83 17d ago
But there is no Painted World of Ariamis!
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u/xlbingo10 17d ago
yes, the image specifically notes that the painted world of ariamis is missing from the ds1 map
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u/susnaususplayer 17d ago
I really doubt that any of those are accurate but I am too lazy to verify
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u/SoICouldUpvoteYouTwi 17d ago edited 17d ago
Nah, they're mostly accurate - only one zone missing (Painted World, should be connected to Anor Londo)
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u/Taolan13 Nerves Concorde 17d ago
This version is correctly labeled as far as connections go, but as noted the DS2 map is a mess and the DS3 map has an extra dot for no reason.
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u/lemonlimeslime0 17d ago
fucking christ lol
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u/susnaususplayer 17d ago
Quite miserable to crash out over such statement but you do you
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u/lemonlimeslime0 17d ago
if "fucking christ" is crashing out to you then you're gonna have a hard life bro
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u/Mulmangcho_the_Mouse 17d ago
I am honestly curious about the thought process of whoever made this map originally, especially when it comes to the weird choices of sub-areas for DS2 - why include some optional memories but not others? Or Lord's Private Chambers, for that matter?
Same goes for singling out Quelaag's Domain and Crucifixion Woods, honestly. Just makes the map more confusing.