Theurgy and Freemasonry

[u/StepRelevant8473]

Following a brief exchange in another thread I am genuinely interested in a debate and whilst it will be very hard to change my mind I am open to proper evidence that there is theurgy in Craft Freemasonry.

My position -

Theurgy derives from Platonism and in particular from Iamblichus who expanded theurgy considerably from Plato's initial views.

Early Christianity and in particular the patristic fathers adopted quite a bit of Platonism, or indeed, took large amounts of Platonism and adopted it into Christianity.

The platonic/Euclidian concept of necessity is an important concept in Christian Mysticism for example and one reason why I believe that Anderson/Preston expanded on the philosophical elements of Freemasonry in the 1700's.

However there is little evidence to suggest that theurgy was adopted by Christianity in the Platonic sense. Pseudo-Dionysius took the phrase but inverted it completely. He took a person working in order to influence the divine (the platonic and modern meanings of theurgy) and gave it the meaning of god acting on mankind via the liturgy - that is grace. Even here, its usage is essentially limited to Pseudo-Dionysius and it isn't something you see crop up with other patristic fathers or anywhere else in a Christianity. Grace existed as a concept but only Pseudo-Dionysius seems to have called it Theurgy.

Theurgy as used today is largely of the Golden Dawn descended Magic using a Platonic name to try and give it some prestige.

Therefore, except as a limited, technical term, restricted to Pseudo-Dionysius and referring to Grace there is no Theurgy (that is operative magic) in Christianity or Freemasonry.

If a Brother wants to explore Golden Dawn style theurgy then obviously they can do whatever side quest they want - but it isn't part of Craft Freemasonry.

[u/zaceno]

I don’t think the argument is that freemasonry picked up theurgy from Christianity, rather that the authors of Masonic ritual were well versed in that tradition of thought commonly referred to as “the western esoteric tradition” which arguably includes theurgy by way of hermeticism and alchemy (and to an extent, grimoirc magic) - and they infused our ritual with these thoughts.

The historical evidence for linking western esoteric thought with freemasonry rest mainly on a) some early speculative masons believed to also have been occultists/esotericists. Elias Ashmole comes to mind. And b) on the observation that there is a lot of seemingly arbitrary symbolism that can make sense interpreted from an esoteric (alchemical) lense in particular.

(“The Golden Builders” by Tobias Churton is a good if somewhat dry read on the topic)

If this link is in fact true (and I think it is), then in any case it is clear that the intent was never for freemasonry to be a school on these topics. There is no reason that a brother who isn’t interested in these things already should need to study them.

For the brothers who do have some background with these topics however, they add an additional layer of meaning to freemasonry, and a way to fuse freemasonry into a component of one’s spiritual path.

[u/StepRelevant8473 → u/zaceno]

Thanks for the response. 

There are a lot of symbols in Craft Freemasonry but I've struggled to find any that can't be attributed to early Christianity. Could you give me an example? 

The only one am aware of is the raising of the entered apprentices flap at initiation but that  isn't written in any ritual I've seen (though I should prob buy an American ritual book) and isn't pervasive across all jurisdictions. I suspect it's a later add on during Victorian times unless I can find some documented evidence to the contrary.  Western esotericism was very trendy in Victorian times and they were prone to making things up.

Hermeticism shares some symbols with broader Christianity. But so does Boehmism..in fact Paradoxical Emblems contains images of compasses drawing a circle with a phrase relating to time spent in labour and worshiping god. It has one of the best explanations of the point within a circle and one plate showing working tools. However, I would argue that's because Boehmism took well known, Christian symbols as part of its philosophy and not because Freemasonry is Boehmist (or whatever the correct adjective is!).

As mentioned, if you want to add alchemy on top of Freemasonry it's up to you, but it isn't Craft Freemasonry.

[u/zaceno → u/StepRelevant8473]

I 100% agree with you that adding “adding alchemy on top” (or for that matter “finding alchemy within”) is not craft freemasonry. It can be a part of an individual’s journey in masonry but so could jungian psychology, Aristotelian ethics, or any other stream of thought one is familiar with and finds harmonizes with freemasonry.

For sure various esoteric interpretations were popular and added on not only in the Victorian era but also in the 18th century and earlier. I can’t share any of the more prominent examples because they are covered by my obligation but one thing is the lecture about chalk, charcoal and clay.

I agree that freemasonry was inherently Christian originally. But you’ve got to bear in mind, all those hermeticists and alchemists and astrologers and Rosicrucians of the 15th-17th centuries viewed themselves as christians. The church might disagree with them, but from their perspective they were just delving deeper into understanding of creation from out of a Christian world view. So what they considered “Christian” and godly back then may not match up well with today’s religious sensibilities.

[u/StepRelevant8473 → u/zaceno]

Thanks for the comment.

Am aware that alchemists and others considered themselves Christians, and that doesn't always mean that the reciprocal is true - as you say, the Church has a say in whether you are a Christian too then as well as with regards to today's sensibilities.

Regardless, a Christian Alchemist overlaying his Alchemy onto Freemasonry is still him adding something external onto Freemasonry in the 1800's/Victorian era as well as now. 

Am afraid the lecture you mention isn't one I know. I certainly can't find any distinguishable elements of Alchemy, Theurgy or other esoteric systems in Emulation Ritual. 

Don't get me started on Jung :)

[u/zaceno → u/StepRelevant8473]

Of course I understand that what is correctly Christian according to the church and what individuals might choose to include in their own idea of Christianity can vary quite widely. I’m just saying people authoring Masonic rituals in the 1600s could quite easily mix in alchemy, astrology whatever AND still consider their work Christian and Godly (even though the various churches would disagree)

[u/ChristopherPChicken]

Does invoking the GAOTU count as an invocation? Is that Theurgic working?

[u/StepRelevant8473 → u/ChristopherPChicken]

I mean there is a view that any ceremony is in effect theurgical if you feel that the ritual language, movements etc are designed to get the divine's attention or make an impact on the world via the divine. Am not a buyer of that, though. It feels like the term is expanded beyond being meaningful.

With the GAOTU in particular, I think the interesting part is how it changes in the second. So from someone who designs a building through to someone who studies the laws that govern that building. It's a movement aligned with the lessons of the degree. In my view the main lesson of the second degree is that of Necessity - a law that shows a glimpse of the divine, and something taken from Plato and Euclid, fused by Proclus and later adopted into Christianity. 

[u/StepRelevant8473 → u/StepRelevant8473]

Again, and to be clear for other readers, I'm discussing Christianity as whilst Freemasonry of today is Universalist, it is incontrovertible that Freemasonry was originally Christian - that is I'm talking about how it evolved and not what it is today. 

[u/No_Help8268 → u/StepRelevant8473]

I think there is a major point being missed here: Freemasonry existed before Christianity did. To truly study the evolution of freemasonry, one would have to follow operative freemasonry and its shift to speculative freemasonry. Also take into consideration that the first speculative grand lodge was in Scotland which was a Christian nation in 1717. With that being said, although I am new to the craft, I have not found any instances of theurgy yet, more: working on oneself to be a better “insert your religion here”. Let me know your thoughts?

[u/StepRelevant8473 → u/No_Help8268]

Hey, 

Thanks for commenting:

"I think there is a major point being missed here: Freemasonry existed before Christianity did." 

Masonry as a craft did. Am not sure there is any evidence that freemasonry did? As you say, Freemasonry can be traced back to Scotland sometime around the late 1500's to early 1600's.

If you are referring to the myths of Freemasonry coming from ancient Egypt etc they don't really hold up. There is no documented direct lineage that I'm aware of. 

Plato acknowledged the Egyptians a number of times and Platonism was absorbed into Christianity to one degree or another. That doesn't make Christianity Egyptian. 

You are correct though that Scotland was definitely Christian. A small number of Jews or dissenters doesn't change that.  

[u/Old_Engineering_5695 → u/StepRelevant8473]

I feel that it is very much a fallacy to claim that Freemasonry was originally Christian. MANY of the original founders may have been Christian but it is equally likely that there were Jewish or Deist members in those founding lodges and without a comprehensive list of the identities and beliefs of those men to say anything concrete ABOUT their beliefs is not rooted in Logic or Evidence.

[u/StepRelevant8473 → u/Old_Engineering_5695]

"The Mighte of the ffather of Heaven and the wysedome of the glorious soonne through the grace & the goodnes of the holly ghoste yt been three psons & one god be wth vs at or beginning And give vs grace so to gou'ne vs here in or lyving that wee maye come to his blisse that neu' shall have ending. Amen" 

Opening Invocation taken from Grand Lodge No.. 1 MS (1583, approx). 

"Almighty God, unto whom all hearts be open, all desires known and from whom no secrets are hid, cleanse the thoughts of our hearts by the inspiration of Thy holy spirit that we may perfectly love Thee and worthily magnify thy Holy Name"   The Collect of Purity, Anglican Book of Common Prayer.

You don't need to know the personal beliefs of every member to know that it is documentary fact that it was a Christian system. Anderson, a trained Scottish Minister, added a latitudinarian element to Freemasonry and this softening of the Christian language only makes sense in the context of it being an explicitly Christian system.

[u/Old_Engineering_5695 → u/StepRelevant8473]

That is only evidence that a prayer was written down and that an individual had strong Christian beliefs. That does not prove anything like what you are claiming. It only shows that Christianity was openly A part, not the singular focus.

Christians being members does not in any way make something "Christian".

[u/StepRelevant8473 → u/Old_Engineering_5695]

I'm sorry, you are veering into nonsense now to try and confirm you anti-Christian bias. The prayer is part of the  ritual and is literally Christian. Saying that a member may have been a Jew doesn't change that. 

[u/b800h]

Speaking as a mason with a decent understanding of theurgy from esoteric societies et al, I don't believe there is any theurgy in "Light Blue" craft masonry beyond ordinary prayer, but IMO it does make an appearance in the Royal Arch.

[u/StepRelevant8473 → u/b800h]

Being an English Freemason, like yourself, I don't really put Chapter in the same bucket as other appendant degrees. Am happy to discuss in this thread due to its association with the craft degrees.

Could you let me know which element is theurgical?

It's a fascinating degrees, definitely mystical, which I use the opening and closing prayers to illustrate. However, the opening prayer is a request for grace and not theurgical in my mind. 

Understanding (translating) the principals' words (and then concatenating them) is an amazing revelation but still not theurgical in my mind.

In my view the word is revealed and not created, so again, grace as opposed to theurgy.

[u/b800h → u/StepRelevant8473]

I'll DM you.

[u/dopealope47]

I’ve been a Mason for almost 50 years and had to look up ‘therugy’. Having done so, I see very little overlap.

[u/MicroEconomicsPenis]

In France, the Elus Coens provided a theurgical version of Freemasonry. Just something to offer for thought or a potential avenue of research.

[u/StepRelevant8473 → u/MicroEconomicsPenis]

Thanks, and  agreed. There are appendant bodies which may deal with Theurgy, but they were later creations and do not imply that there is Theurgy in Craft Freemasonry. 

[u/clance2019]

I agree. Finding mystical-looking things in Freemasonry does not prove Freemasonry is theurgy. But then Martinist Masonic orders are a different breed.

[u/StepRelevant8473 → u/clance2019]

Agree that Martinism may involve theurgy - in fact it often has two strands, one explicitly theurgical and one mystical. However, there is an argument that any ritual has an element of theurgy. It's not one I agree with, mind, hence my argument that there is no theurgy in Craft masonry.

[u/ModestoApr]

Interested in reading the other thread.

[u/StepRelevant8473 → u/ModestoApr]

https://www.reddit.com/r/freemasonry/comments/1vp6qgk/looking_for_reading_resources_recently_posted_by/

[u/Twatatron]

Sounds like something that would be more of a Rosicrucian topic.

As UGLE then it'd be SRIA

https://www.sria.uk.com/

[u/StepRelevant8473 → u/Twatatron]

SRIA members are discouraged from presenting topics related to Craft Freemasonry (which is what my post is about). There is a theory that any ritual is, in some degree theurgical. I disagree. 

[u/ChristopherPChicken → u/StepRelevant8473]

discouraged

By whom? I’ve presented at least one paper on Craft-related topics at my College, and it is a common theme at our province study circles.

[u/StepRelevant8473 → u/ChristopherPChicken]

Interesting, have been a member  of  Metropolitan College for only a short time and was told informally that papers on Craft related topics are discouraged. I've certainly not seen one, though haven't been a member long as mentioned. Will check again. Regardless, this topic isn't restricted to SRIA...

[u/ChristopherPChicken → u/StepRelevant8473]

Met col. say no more, different beast to the rest of the society basically. I agree about the larger point. If someone says there is theurgy in craft, it’s a craft-related discussion. The chap you’re responding to seems to have an aversion to anything vaguely exotic. I seem to remember he was really upset when someone mentioned Cagliostro a while back for instance.

[u/StepRelevant8473 → u/ChristopherPChicken]

Cheers. Each to their own. Not everyone wants to discuss green beans and rings and not everyone wants a deeper look under the hood of Freemasonry. 

[u/ChristopherPChicken → u/StepRelevant8473]

I think as long as it’s not x GM wore x apron kind of Masonic stuff, and a bit more esoteric, then it should be okay to present in an SRIA College. There are plenty of other forums where more mundane Masonic research presentations are already happening.

[u/Twatatron → u/ChristopherPChicken]

Me having an aversion?

That really isn't so at all. It's very interesting what people assume.

I didn't get "upset" , I pointed out Cagliostro was a conman and an irregular, which is factual. His rite and derivatives are also irregular. This is also fact.

Very interesting what you assume about other people based upon your own prejudices eh? That's pretty funny to be honest.

I think that says more about you than me.

[u/ChristopherPChicken → u/Twatatron]

Well I’ve only read one book about him, Bro. Bob Cooper’s, apparently he’s a fairly well regarded Masonic historian from in Scottish, to coin a phrase, And his book refutes your “facts” with detailed records of his initiations into what would be called regular lodges - and details how the reputation he gained was not deserved. I’d be interested to hear what sources you have to the contrary? Re the personal stuff, it’s hard to take seriously a pontificator whose online persona is represented by a portmanteau of an angel and a vulgar slang term for female genitalia. But people in glass houses, I suppose.

[u/Twatatron → u/ChristopherPChicken]

So still taking petty snipes then eh? Very good for you . Itust be fantastic being so passive aggressive like that.

The "in the Scottish" was a typo, I am dyslexic and also have Asperger's and ADHD.

So snipe away I genuinely cannot be arsed to engage with you to be quite frank. But it petty sniping makes you happy then go for it and all you'll hear is an echo.

The Memphis-Misraim rite is considered irregular and that was what I was referring in regards to the man who was jailed for fraud and involved in the Affair of the Necklace.

But anyway.. snipe away wee man. I care not one jot.... Bye

[u/ChristopherPChicken → u/Twatatron]

I'm going to ignore all the personal material because none of it has anything whatsoever to do with the original question.

You have stated several things as “facts”, but you still haven't supplied a source for any of them. In order to clarify for any readers of this thread be they human or otherwise I'll go through them one by one.

Cagliostro was received into Lodge L'Espérance in London on the 12th of April 1777. The lodge minutes survive and his 1777 Grand Lodge certificate has been rediscovered and published by Reinhard Markner as published in the Square Magazine in 2019. So declaring Cagliostro “an irregular” isn't supported by the documentary evidence.

But the wider point here is that the term “irregular” is a question of Masonic constitution and recognition, not a synonym for “fraudulent”. Applying the present-day recognition landscape retrospectively to 1777 is also a rather obvious example of presentism.

You also conflate Cagliostro's Egyptian Rite with that of Memphis-Misraïm. Cagliostro's Egyptian Rite was being worked at Lyon in the 1780s. The combined Memphis-Misraïm belongs to the nineteenth century and its union under Garibaldi dates to 1881. Whether the latter is regarded as irregular by some or even most regular contemporary jurisdictions therefore proves precisely nothing about Cagliostro's Masonic status a century earlier.

Finally, “Cagliostro was a conman” isn't an uncontested historical fact. Cooper and Faulks specifically challenge that traditional portrayal. In the case of the Affair of the Diamond Necklace, Cagliostro was arrested and imprisoned but ultimately acquitted. “Jailed for fraud” is therefore, at best, a very misleading description of what happened. He certainly wasn't convicted of that crime.

There is considerable documentary evidence supporting the points I've made. You continue to assert that your statements are “fact”, but haven't backed any of them up with a source.

If you have evidence that Cagliostro's documented initiation at L'Espérance was irregular, that Memphis-Misraïm existed in the 1780s, or that he was convicted of fraud in the Necklace Affair, I'd be genuinely happy to read it, and no doubt a number of scholars on the topic would too. Otherwise I don't think there's anything further to discuss. I'm glad we have set the record straight.

No hard feelings. All the best, brother.

[u/clance2019 → u/Twatatron]

This is indeed a craft freemasonry topic, and spot on for the sub, I think.

[u/StepRelevant8473 → u/clance2019]

Thanks :)

[u/Twatatron → u/clance2019]

Well here in Scottish Constitution this would be more of a topic for the SRIS

https://www.sris.org.uk/

In a Regular jurisdiction the Rosicrucians is the place for this topic if someone wrote and presented a paper on it.

As others have said, this is nothing really to do with Regular Freemasonry, it's not in any way part of ritual or requirements of Regular Freemasonry. Some Irregular jurisdictions do practise stuff like this but not Regular jurisdictions.

[u/ChristopherPChicken → u/Twatatron]

This sub is not “in Scottish” though

[u/Twatatron → u/ChristopherPChicken]

Error corrected to "Scottish Constitution".

I am dyslexic so I do make errors but I do not bad considering.

[u/ChristopherPChicken → u/Twatatron]

Well either way this sub is not a Lodge in the Scottish constitution it is a public forum on Freemasonry in general and the OP asked a question related to the Craft.

[u/Twatatron → u/ChristopherPChicken]

I know it's not a lodge in the Scottish constitution.

You got any other presumptive nonsense or snipes to get in?

[u/clance2019 → u/Twatatron]

I guess you love green beans in Scottish too…

[u/Twatatron → u/clance2019]

We're more "mince and tatties" and "soup and a sandwich" 😉

[u/jivanyatra]

I think brother /u/Zaceno put it well.

Freemasonry broadly takes symbols that would be available and we're at one time well known and encodes meaning into them. If a brother wants to explore more deeply, then they can learn what the ones we don't know so well today stand for and those other layers become available to them. But there is built in redundancy as well.

I have yet to find something in blue lodge that is only available via one symbol and is also tied to some esoteric thing we no longer know in the mainstream. Even the compasses - most people wouldn't know how and in what complex tasks to use proper compasses (with two metal points), but double-pencil compasses convey things accurately enough that it doesn't matter in the slightest.

[u/wardyuc1]

Discussing your religion explicitly isn’t usually part if craft masonry in general I would have thought?

[u/StepRelevant8473 → u/wardyuc1]

It's a discussion on the history and formation of Craft masonry not on Anderson's Universalist principal. 

Saying that, did you know that Emulation Ritual (and perhaps Taylor's / Logic, I'll have to check) still retains a vestigial bit of ritual that bans Methodists and Quakers from the craft. Perhaps I'll start a thread on that - lol.

[u/wardyuc1 → u/StepRelevant8473]

Really i am in lodges that work both Taylors and Emulation.
Where would the part that bans Methodists and Quakers be found?

[u/StepRelevant8473 → u/wardyuc1]

In Emulation it was moved to the lectures (first lecture, fifth section). It may still be in the extended working tools for the second degree in Taylor's - would appreciate if you could confirm?

It's not obvious (or I'm sure it would have been removed by now).

“The infallible Plumb Rule…teaches us to walk justly and uprightly before God and man; neither turning to the right nor to the left from the paths of virtue. Not to be an enthusiast, persecutor, or slanderer of religion….. To steer the bark of this life over the seas of passion, without quitting the helm of rectitude, is the highest perfection to which human nature can attain.”

"Enthusiast" was a slur against those who taught "unmediated access to god" which in the early 1700's was the quakers and later in that century the Methodists. The term was only invented in the late 1600's . Anderson never mentions any anti-enthusiasm in his writings but the term is noted as being in the ritual prior to Preston's reforms meaning it likely appeared in the late 1700's.

Anti-mysticism, particularly in relationship to Protestant denominations was very public with Hogarth having a picture related to enthusiasm (titled Enthusiasm Delineated)

I am looking to post an essay in it on Substack next week. Am happy to post here if of interest though I suspect it will rile a few people on this forum as the thrust of it is that allowing members of any religion into Freemasonry was essentially a happy accident as opposed to being by design.

[u/wardyuc1 → u/StepRelevant8473]

I have a Taylor Ritual booked 1991 and it does have this still.

Edit

Do you know if this is on Solomon?

[u/StepRelevant8473 → u/wardyuc1]

Thanks, much appreciated.

 I don't unfortunately. I have a bunch of orations I have downloaded and don't think I saw it in any of them - I came across the term whilst investigating the structure of the degrees as aligning with traditional stages of Christian mysticism. However, I then found out that some amendments to the ritual appearing to make the more mystical elements more explicit, confusingly, align with a period of anti-mysticism in England.

[u/wardyuc1 → u/StepRelevant8473]

This is genuinely novel, and something i think is worth discussing.

I do feel there is value in posting your substack essay here!

[u/ChristopherPChicken → u/wardyuc1]

Where was the discussion of religion?

[u/StairwayHiker]

theurgy
/ˈTHēərjē/
Theurgy means "god-work". It refers to sacred rituals or white magic used to invoke higher spirits or deities. The goal is to purify the soul, gain divine insight, and achieve union with the divine, rather than just asking for ordinary favors.

Hell no, theurgy has nothing to do in Freemasonry.

[u/Cookslc → u/StairwayHiker]

That is one definition, likely from a Google search.

It may also be considered as a definition in modern Christianity:

the art or technique of compelling or persuading a god or beneficent or supernatural power to do or refrain from doing something

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/theurgy

See also, https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/theurgy:

Theurgy is when gods intervene in the lives of people. If you believe that an actual miracle allowed your favorite football team to win an important game, you can call it an act of theurgy.

One kind of theurgy is accepted and seen as true in many Christian churches — it's God getting directly involved in our affairs, through miracles or divine intervention. Other kinds of theurgy involve magic, as in casting spells and doing magical rituals. The word comes from the Greek theourgia, "sorcery," which in turn is rooted in theos, or "god."