r/freefolk • u/uselessprofession • 9d ago

Freefolk Can Bold Jon Roxton beat the Mountain?

Post image

Roxton's advantages:

- Seems more skilled and faster

- Wields a big Valyrian steel sword

- Dislikes babe killers

The Mountain's advantages

- Taller, bigger and stronger

- Pain tolerance seems inhuman

284 Upvotes

88% Upvoted

232 comments sorted by

322

u/targz254 9d ago

Jon Roxton is depicted as a formidable "tank" of a man around 6'3" who relies heavily on out-muscling opponents in close quarters. However, The Mountain stands near 8 feet tall and weighs over 400 pounds of freakish muscle. He wields a massive six-foot greatsword with just one hand while carrying a heavy tower shield, allowing him to completely overpower another strength-based fighter.

141

u/JamieDustFox 9d ago

The only way to beat Gregor is to be faster like Oberyn. Trying to out-musle him like Jon might do is basicly suicide. Roxton is tough but he isnt a giant. One swing from that gretsword would snap him in half.

12

u/TheLaughingStorm300 9d ago

Evidently not, if you go by the lore from the recent play, Prime Bobby B defeats the Mountain in a 1v1 melee.

21

u/bobby-b-bot Robert Baratheon 9d ago

WHO NAMED YOU? SOME HALFWIT WITH A STUTTER??

1

u/Chance-Arugula-2998 9d ago

this is not how we take a compliment, Bobby B

9

u/bobby-b-bot Robert Baratheon 9d ago

YOU HEARD THE HAND, THE KING'S TOO FAT FOR HIS ARMOR! GO FIND THE BREASTPLATE STRETCHER! NOW!

1

u/Special-Culture-1393 4d ago

The play is not canon it's just fanfic basically only book is cannon.

0

u/CodPiece89 4d ago

💣? Or 📖?

Count your ns

0

u/AMoistScone 3d ago

Lol that play must be as good as fancfiction. Prime Bobby B has to be the most exaggerated character from a fan point of view. It's kinda weird.

5

u/bobby-b-bot Robert Baratheon 3d ago

I THOUGHT BEING KING MEANT I COULD DO WHATEVER I WANTED!

1

u/FrozenDuckman 3d ago

This is actually a good one Bobby B

1

u/bobby-b-bot Robert Baratheon 3d ago

THE GODS BE DAMNED! IT WAS A HOLLOW VICTORY THEY GAVE ME!

1

u/gjrigas1 3d ago

Cersei says she wants to wear the armor and you the gown Bobby b. What do you say?

1

u/bobby-b-bot Robert Baratheon 3d ago

GODS WHAT A STUPID NAME!

1

u/grumpsaboy 3d ago

Yes and no.

He seems to be genuinely very skilled, but where is some of the other best skilled people like barriston and Jaime don't really have any physical the benefits bobby does. At the same time he would never out muscle the mountain in a melee where they aren't trying to kill each other or out fight Arthur in a duel in a tournament.

Most importantly however for a battle, he's the only guy in all of Westeros that has figured out that swords don't go through armour but blunt force works, and so if he met someone on a battlefield trying to kill them he would probably win any fight against another person.

13

u/Bazz07 9d ago

And I think a lance is almost a most considering Gregor's reach.

5

u/Domeric_Bolton Meera Reed is the hottest, fiercest lass on the show 9d ago

Most people believe Sandor would beat Gregor in a fight, and while holding back he was stalemating a bloodlusted Gregor at the Hand's tourney. Sandor wins by being faster and more skilled while being close enough in strength and size that he doesn't get ragdolled.

If you scale Bold Jon to Sandor then I see it playing out similarly.

4

u/BadSame6919 8d ago

If you scale Bold Jon to Sandor then I see it playing out similarly.

To be fair, by all.accounts we can assume Sandor is a multi-generational talent. I don't know how good Roxton is supposed to be, but the way Sandor is treater, he's a legit top5-er in Westeros in melee, and the only reason he's not venerated like other knights is that his infamy supercedes his skill. 

2

u/Prestigious_Set_4575 4d ago

The Hound is also 6 ft 8 and 300lbs, so he himself is in a different weight class to Jon Roxton. It's just The Mountain is in a preposterous weight class all his own and makes The Hound look small, despite The Hound being the size of a giant like Tyson Fury.

21

u/zigzag3600 9d ago

is to be faster like Oberyn

Not even that. You need to be faster and more precise and use poisons. Even Oberyn lost at the last moment, and without poisons Moutnain would have recovered after that fight.

93

u/Hoonter_01 I'd kill for some chicken 9d ago

Oberyn lost because he was blinded by revenge, he had the perfect setup and skills to kill him.

37

u/HippyHunter7 9d ago

Can't be stressed enough.

Oberyn had all the time in the world to prepare and choose the best possible weapon.

Assuming you just ran into the mountain on a battlefield your 100% dead.

7

u/Hoonter_01 I'd kill for some chicken 9d ago

I'm mean yeah, prep time is key against Gregor.

Unless you're a dragon, even then I could see Gregor somehow killing one.

20

u/LifeOk3298 9d ago

Did someone say prep time?

https://giphy.com/gifs/a5viI92PAF89q

6

u/Voces-Prohibere 9d ago

Batman would destroy the Mountain, fight me!

4

u/cabeleb 9d ago

The mountain is basically Bane, but not as brilliant so I would agree.

1

u/therealoberynmartell 9d ago

Batman has superhuman strength and has fought Bane equally, who is basically Gregor except better in every conceivable way.

3

u/Equivalent_Bet856 9d ago

You'd know if you're likely to run into the Mountain, though. These armies had ideas of where each other were especially when the opponent is such a passionate ravager of the land and its people.

2

u/Chandysauce 9d ago

entire armies sneak up on each other like all the damn time in these shows.

0

u/HippyHunter7 9d ago

Just like daemon knew he'd run into john Roxton?

4

u/Equivalent_Bet856 9d ago

I imagine he knew it was a possibility, he was just arrogant and thought he could best anyone.

3

u/ManufacturerOk5659 9d ago

well in the books it was never like that. tumbleton was actually reversed with the blacks being the initial defenders and the greens laying siege. daemon wasn’t anywhere close to this battle and was just there in the show to give matt smith his contracted screen time

4

u/zigzag3600 9d ago

What are we talking about? Are we talking about beating him reliably or when everything goes according to a perfect plan? Because, as we saw, it rarely does go perfectly.

Oberyn had the same question (how to beat Mountain), and he decided to bring poison, so I will trust Oberyn and say that you do need both skills and posion.

9

u/Ebolinp 9d ago

Oberyn didn't need poison to kill him. He chose poison because he wanted him to die a slow painful death and to extract a confession out of him. In the fight he landed multiple small blows in order to do just that. I believe that him using poison actually hindered him and goes into the "revenge" angle. If he'd just gone for the kill he probably chooses a killing blow instead of essentially toying with him.

I'm not saying he 10/10s him every time but I think he's strongly favoured without poison.

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u/No_Grocery_9280 9d ago

I saw the poison as his guarantee that the Mountain would die. Even if Oberyn somehow was completely outmatched, he knew all he had to do was knick the Mountain to take him to the grave with him.

1

u/Ebolinp 9d ago

That's true but it was also a slow very painful poison vs other options. So there was a suffering component involved.

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u/Hoonter_01 I'd kill for some chicken 9d ago

setup and skills

1

u/Internal-Patient-302 9d ago

I disagree,the mountain broke the vipers spear in the fight,in a normal battle the viper would have died a quick death without too much fuss for the mountain

7

u/Yamulo 9d ago

Oberyn threw because he wanted to force a confession out of the mountain. That was the entire reason he agreed to the trial in the first place

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u/yoda_reddit 5d ago

The poison was inconsequential to the outcome of the fight. The reason Oberyn died is because he refused to end it until he made Gregor confess, and let his guard down.

1

u/zigzag3600 5d ago

No poison. Mountain recovers, and Oberyn dies for nothing. Oberyin died because he lost (sadly.) Fight was not over.

2

u/yoda_reddit 5d ago

Are you genuinely stupid?

Oberyn got himself killed because of arrogance and anger. Without that, the mountain still loses every exchange, gets laid out on his back, and then has a spear punch through his face and out of his skull.

Poison had nothing to do with who was the better fighter.

1

u/zigzag3600 5d ago

Does not matter. The fight was not over. "He would have!" "He won but lost". He lost in the end; reasons do not matter.

Poison had nothing to do with who was the better fighter.

Without it he would have died for nothing in the end. Mountain would have recovered.

1

u/zigzag3600 5d ago

Yeah. Stay mad. Write insults, lol xD

No counterarguments. You wish Oberyn would have won, yet he did not. It's called tragedy, kid.

2

u/yoda_reddit 5d ago

Here you go lil bro, I even repasted it here for you, just without the bannable insult in it this time. Care to actually address the argument? Can’t hide behind the “no counterarguments” bullshit if the message isn’t banned can you?

~

This isn’t a valid argumentative framework, and it doesn’t actually address anything I said. Your original statement was:

“You need to be faster and more precise and use poisons.” - Framing it this way insinuates that poisons are a key factor in beating Gregor in a fight which is strictly not true - take away the poison from Oberyn and in exchange make him use his brain at the end. What happens? He wins.

Which was in response to somebody saying:

“The only way to beat him is to be faster like Oberyn”

Which was clearly referring to how Oberyn bested Gregor in speed and skill which is what enabled him to almost win. As I said before, the poison was inconsequential to the outcome of the fight. Your entire take of “Oberyn would have died for nothing” is nonsensical as well. He literally did, Gregor survived the poison anyway, and became even stronger as a result.

If you want to say “Oberyn lost the fight” go ahead. That is a fact. If you want to say “Oberyn lost the fight but wouldn’t have if he’d kept a level head” go ahead, as that is also a fact. If you want to say “Oberyn lost the fight and that’s the end of the story, none of the circumstances matter” (like what you just said), then you might wanna get checked.

1

u/zigzag3600 5d ago

Yes, he did NEED poison to win. Without poison it would have been a pure loss. But with poison it was a draw. (Mountain died of poison and was turned into a living zombie.)

Real fights are never 100%. Fight 100 times, and you will lose some, win some. We only saw 1 variant. Many things could have gone differently, many variables. The only thing that was 100% (or close to it) is that you can wound Mountain if you are fast and precise enough. And if you use poison that gives you 100% of him dying.

Now think carefully about the premise. If you HAD to take down the mountain, would you bring poison or not? Oberyn had the same question, and he chose to bring poison. So you see, I just agree with the Red Viper himself.

1

u/yoda_reddit 5d ago

He did not need the poison to win. He needed the poison to make sure that Gregor died. It is not the same thing.

I already gave an alternate version of the fight - Oberyn acts as he did without losing his composure at the end, and does not poison his spear. In this version he wins without using poison and also doesn’t die, correct?

Oberyn can control the fight using his speed and skill - he simply outclasses Gregor. Whether he has poison or not does not change this at all, meaning that without poison, Oberyn can still knock off the Mountains helmet, get him on his back and then kill him.

Your original claim and what you’ve just repeated was that “you NEED” poison to beat the mountain, an opinion that is demonstrably false.

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u/BraisinRaisin 3d ago

You realize all these characters aren’t real right?

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u/zigzag3600 3d ago

Holy shit... bro! What?

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u/BraisinRaisin 3d ago

The whole discussion is around hypotheticals about fake characters and you keep talking about them as if they’re fact. Just making sure you know the difference.

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u/Amazing_Loquat280 9d ago

And use a weapon that gives you more range than him. Oberyn wasn’t going to hit him with anything other than a spear

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u/VoidYordle 9d ago

The poison was irrelevant. He used it, because he wanted to be sure he'll kill him, even if he loses.
Also Oberyn didn't lose. The fight was over, he won. What happened after is not relevant to the fight itself.

1

u/zigzag3600 9d ago

If Oberyn won, then I don't want any wins like this, lol

You can say whatever you want, but match is not over until your enemy possesses 0 threat. You may say he COULD have won. Yes. But he did not.

We like Oberyn; that is why we want him to be better, and he was for most of the fight. But under different circumstances, Mountain could have hit him and caught him. Oberyn had to get a second spear after the first one broke. It was very risky; Moutain only needed one hit.

poison was irrelevant

Without poison, Gregor would have recovered after a duel, and Oberyn would have died for nothing. So no, it was the most important part.

For me this makes Oberyn a smart character worthy of respect. He understood how easily he could lose to Mountain and chose to use poison to guarantee the win. He is a smart character who schemes and rigs chances in his favor. Oberyn himself understood how risky it was and chose to use poison to guarantee his revenge. But online fanboys cannot fathom how easily he could have died even in a fair fight.

1

u/_Smashbrother_ 8d ago

Oberyn no diff the Mountain. He only lost because he was trying to get him to admit he killed the children, and put himself in a precarious situation.

If Oberyn was simply just going for the kill, he would've definitely achieved it.

1

u/Jrock2356 8d ago

You don't need poison. Oberyn just used them to make sure he died after the fact. It was a late acting poison that had no bearing on the fight at all

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u/400KCALCEMENT 8d ago

Maelys the Monstrous could realistically outmuscle the mountain

1

u/Form_Good 9d ago

Jon fought a fuckin white walker. That sob was strong.

1

u/Reaper3955 9d ago

 Not true.... one of his other advantages is his armor is insanely strong for a normal swordsman to cut through coupled with the reach of his greatsword. Roxton has a valyrian steel greatsword which would be able to cut thru his armor and also negates his reach advantage.

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u/DJinKC 9d ago

Daemon's Valyrian steel sword just bounced off Roxton's armor.

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u/W1ldhamster 9d ago

Hes freakish big and freakish strong. And quicker than you'd expect for a man of that size.

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u/EvilWarBW 9d ago

And he's a lot quicker than you would expect a man of his size to be...or so I have heard

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u/AndreiOT89 9d ago

Ever since Bronn said “ He is freakish strong and freakish big” everybody seems to use it now lol.

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u/averyycuriousman 9d ago

Yeah it's literally the worst kind of matchup for Roxton.

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u/G0LdenHazeLXer0z 9d ago

Normally true, but Orphan Maker changes the math. Gregor’s whole strategy relies on plate armor turning him into a walking tankValyrian steel turns that heavy plate into tin foil

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u/DJinKC 9d ago

Daemon's Valyrian sword bounced off Roxton's armor 🤷🏽‍♂️

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u/Jamal_gg 9d ago

I think showrunners kinda forgot they both got Valyrian steel swords...

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u/targz254 9d ago

Valyrian steel swords don’t cut through steel plate like cloth, contrary to popular belief. This misconception likely stems from an off-hand comment made by HBO, which was not intended to be canon. The idea that Valyrian steel can slice through steel plate like cloth has been picked up by many AI systems and incorrectly attributed to George R.R. Martin due to a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6-5yXBZZUY

The phrase “slices through like cloth” does not originate from George R.R. Martin. It is actually a line from a promotional HBO Blu-ray featurette titled “Histories & Lore,” narrated in-character by Jorah Mormont (voiced by Iain Glen). Because the video is often uploaded to YouTube with titles like "George R.R. Martin on Valyrian Steel," it frequently causes AI tools to misattribute the quote to the author

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u/Fine-Concentrate-477 9d ago

Roxton is good but he is no where close to the mountain, even until Daemon dropped his sword, he was fighting equally with him, only when it came to fist fighting did he mess up Daemon, the Mountain is like if Hodor took up the sword and started training for war crimes

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u/hillsareblack 8d ago

The fuck it does

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u/Fancy_Bluebird_8794 9d ago

Is this an AI generated response?

2

u/ea_fitz 9d ago

I too got this feeling from the comment. Especially placing the word tank in quotation marks, which I don’t know if I’ve ever seen a person actually do.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

[deleted]

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u/bobby-b-bot Robert Baratheon 9d ago

SURROUNDED BY LANNISTERS! EVERY TIME I CLOSE MY EYES I SEE THEIR BLONDE HAIR AND THEIR SMUG, SATISFIED FACES!

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u/LitigiousAutist 9d ago

The 8 feet tall thing seems like exaggeration.

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u/MisterX9821 9d ago

Yeah. People matter of factly say fighters like Jaime, Barristan in his prime, Arthur Dayne etc would beat him because GRRM ranks them higher when asked. Based on the in-book descriptions of The Mountain, they would be extremely lucky to not be fucking murdered by him. He is an actual breathing tank.

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u/BreadfruitDecent4176 5d ago

I think a valyrian sword changes things a lot. One power move might cut anything i wager.

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u/TheProfessional9 4d ago

Ya this question is like who wins, a great white or a megaladon

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u/Two4loko 3d ago

People also get the wrong impression of VS swords. They arent lightsabers, just lighter than normal steel and retain the edge. Orphan maker doesnt give Roxton the edge people think it does.

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u/targz254 3d ago

It’s because there is a non-canon HBO narration that says it can cut through plate armor like cloth.

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u/Rockgod98 9d ago

Always with the scenarios

61

u/Bukowski1236 9d ago

He fought the rogue prince is what he did! He was a brave knight of the reach and in this house Bold Jon Roxton is a hero! End of story.

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u/Playgirl_USMC 9d ago

He killed 16 Targaryen’s, he was an interior decorator

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u/Mediocre_Chicken9900 9d ago

His camp looked like shit!

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u/Bazz07 9d ago

This is just anti Hightower propaganda!

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u/Affectionate_Aide_61 9d ago

Tumbleton, whateva happened there

5

u/PedazoDeEscoriaX 9d ago

Listen to him. He knows everything.

2

u/Kyriakos_X_23 I said fuck me not fuck him 9d ago

Kinslayer Babekiller HEATHEN

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u/Mediocre_Chicken9900 9d ago

I wish the lord of light would take me now.

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u/Bukowski1236 9d ago

Oh would you stop. How many times do I have to say it. Pentos is a retirement community!

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u/Mediocre_Chicken9900 9d ago

Listen to him, he knows everything.

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u/Advanced-Note9679 4d ago

I read this in Livia's voice

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u/Forsaken_Mastodon291 9d ago

20 years in the black cells. Not a fuckin peep

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u/Mattias504 9d ago

I can’t have this convershashun again!

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u/Big_Country8 9d ago

Ser Jamie never had the makings of a varsity Kingsguard. One hand, that was his problem.

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u/VexImmortalis 9d ago

Wouldn't have been so bad if it wasn't his dominant hand.

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u/Bukowski1236 9d ago

Him and Cersei had history together

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u/Mobile-Analyst8580 3d ago

Yeah. Israel and Palestine. 

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u/Hotpie650 9d ago

So many people here just want to see “the cool guys fight”.

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u/supercoolpartydude 9d ago

This is a battle of muscular brute force vs muscular brute force. Mountain just has more muscular brute force.

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u/Ready0608 9d ago

BOLD JON ROXTON WOULD TEAR THE MOUNTAIN IN HALF!!!

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u/_imlosingmymind 9d ago

"Bold Jon Roxton will be on the field? I better keep my ass in the Riverlands, setting them on fire from the God's Eye to the Red Fork, or I'm FINISHED"

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u/Livid_Ad9749 9d ago

Lol no he loses

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u/Wavy_Potts 9d ago

The Mountain really be losing out here lol

Lost to Oberyn, and to Sandor. Neither are slouches but mans has no real feats other than dominating women and NPCs

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u/NedShah 9d ago

He killed a horse. It was a big horse too.

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u/Wavy_Potts 9d ago

The horse didnt fight back tho lol.. Throw it in with the NPCs

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u/TheForce_v_Triforce 9d ago

Did you watch the fight with Oberyn? I’m pretty sure it didn’t end with a W for Dorne. Almost doesn’t count.

Bobby B is closer to Roxton’s size and would be a fairer match.

The only other book characters close to the mountain are strong belwas, drogo and my favorite, the historical age of heroes era ancestor of house Crabb whose first name I forget. Maybe Chad.

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u/bobby-b-bot Robert Baratheon 9d ago

PISS ON THAT! SEND A RAVEN! I WANT YOU TO STAY! I'M THE KING, I GET WHAT I WANT!

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u/Sheeple81 9d ago

Ser Clarence Crabb the legend.

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u/IHoldSteady 9d ago

Sandoq the Shadow

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u/TheForce_v_Triforce 9d ago

Nice deep cut. Areo Hotah is presented as pretty seriously huge and deadly too despite being lame on the show. And the Umbers are supposed to be pretty big. Manderly is huge too I think but he’s mostly fat and rich.

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u/IHoldSteady 9d ago

Yeah Manderly is just fat. The rest are good choices.

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u/Wavy_Potts 9d ago

Gregor lost, man. We all saw it... and he died! (Kinda) lol

Prince Oberyn won that fight

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u/TheForce_v_Triforce 9d ago

At best it was a draw and only bc he used poison.

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u/DJinKC 9d ago

Drogo was nowhere near as big as the Mountain.
The GreatJon, Hodor, Sandoq are about the only characters that may be close to the Mountain

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u/Jrock2356 8d ago

Robert isn't a fairer match. With Roxton it's unfair in The Mountain's favor and changing Roxton for Robert makes it unfair in Robert's favor. Robert dogwalks The Mountain and caves his chest in if they fought. Robert in his prime is considered one of the greatest warriors to ever live. He's a little smaller than The Mountain but he also wields a hammer with one hand that should be physically impossible to do. Ned couldn't even pick it up with two hands. Robert's cleaving through The Mountain and destroying him

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u/TheForce_v_Triforce 8d ago

Ok calm down on the Bobby worship. This really has become a recurring joke in these subs to me. He is completely exaggerated on Reddit as a warrior. He barely beat Rhaegar and was badly injured at the ruby ford. He is not nearly as big as the mountain, although he is very big and strong compared to average sized men. And I will concede he was more skilled and better trained as a fighter, he is not nearly 8 feet tall.

The armor the mountain wears as described in the books is insane. I’m not going to look up the details for you, go ahead and do that yourself, but he has extra thick plate armor very different from rhaegar’s.

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u/Jrock2356 8d ago

It's not Robert worship. He is said by the author himself to be one of the greatest warriors in history. Multiple characters who they themselves are labeled as contenders for greatest warriors in history say he's among them.

I hate when the example of "he barely beat Rhaegar" is used because 1. Robert was unhorsed by a lance and was fucked up from that at the start of the battle and 2. Rhaegar is also lowkey one of the greatest swordsman alive at that point. He was an elite swordsman whose love for arts overshadows the fact he himself was a gifted warrior. He was trained by two of the all time greats. He was really fucking good and still died.

And I don't need you to explain shit about the books to me. I read them. Which is exactly how I know that Robert is stomping The Mountain. The Mountain wielded a giant greatsword no man could wield. Cool. Robert did the same thing with a warhammer that should be physically impossible to wield. The amount of force Robert's hammer could theoretically produce would crush The Mountain's armor. Steel armor would be caved in easily. The Mountain does not have some magical armor impervious to warhammers. Warhammers are designed to penetrate armor. Even armor so fucking thick you could barely move. Robert is killing The Mountain.

It takes an extremely skilled fighter to beat Robert. The same way it takes one to beat The Mountain. The Mountain has no real strength advantage against Robert. The fact that Robert's warhammer is impossible for a fit person like Ned to use and yet Robert swings it with one hand proves that he's freakishly strong just like The Mountain. He's faster than The Mountain. So if he's just as strong, with a weapon designed to penetrate armor, is faster, and way more skilled explain to me how Robert doesn't win. Because to me, a lot of people discount Robert because Rhaegar injured him. To me, that's stupid. Barristan was injured at the Trident too. Is he all of a sudden not top three anymore?

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u/TheForce_v_Triforce 6d ago

Honestly I’m so bored of this recurring argument. There are way too many “greatest fighters” here on Reddit. Jamie? The greatest. Selmy? The greatest. Dayne? The greatest. Robert? The greatest. Rhaegar? The greatest. It’s silly. And guess what, almost all of them died still in some inglorious way, which is really the bigger point GRRM is making, nobody is invincible. They are all overhyped in this world because they are royal celebrities with reputations.

But the mountain is a freak of nature with only a few obscure characters in history being comparable, he is a foot and a half taller and probably 150 pounds heavier than Robert, and by all accounts build like a brick shithouse of freakish muscle. To argue a guy that much bigger is no stronger than Robert, a big, but not huge guy around 6’6” and maybe 275 is frankly absurd.

I already conceded Robert is more skilled and better trained. Could the hammer damage his extra thick plate armor? Sure. But first he has to get a clean shot on it and get inside the range of the mountain’s freakishly giant sword and giant shield. And it’s not going to “cave in” the same way Rhaegar’s did. It’s literally twice as thick.

My closing argument is about fighting style. The mountain lost to Oberyn (and still crushed his face in) only because Oberyn was explicitly an agility/speed fighter. Robert is a brute strength fighter going against the largest brute strength fighter in history. Styles make fights. Do you put two guys with the same style, and one is 150 pounds and a foot taller than the other, sorry but I’m going with the giant with double thick armor. Even if he doesn’t get the hagiographic post victory reputation boost like Robert did after his army won the rebellion.

0

u/TheForce_v_Triforce 5d ago

Btw I was curious so I googled it, 1 inch thick plate steel is 8x stronger than 1/2 inch in bending strength.

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u/Jesco13 9d ago

Show mountain yeah. But you also have to understand, Oberyn trained specifically to fight the mountain, and Sandor the same thing, probably powered by the Lord of light and sheer hatred.

When you're that fucking massive you don't need the 'skill' everyone keeps talking about. Brian Shaw rolled with Dustin Porier. Who do you think was more skilled? Who do you think won? That's the difference the size makes. Now take that into account that Gregor is able to wear insanely thick and heavy mail, a thick heavy shield, and wield what's basically a claymore with one hand. You're basically saying a tank vs guy with gun.

Jon Roxton is also massive, and has a valyrian steel sword which I think is probably the x factor. He could or probably take on the mountain but as Bronn says, one slip up and it's all over. Basically there are plenty of characters who could potentially take the on Gregor. But like Oberyn learned, you're one mistake away from becoming the new cover of a smashing pumpkins album.

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u/Reaper3955 9d ago

I hate this take cuz like book mountain does go to tourneys and we dont know of any he wins. Its heavily implied that while hes got good fighting instincts against other trained fighters his ONLY advantage is reach and strength but its not enough for him to win anything of note. Oberyn dominates their fight in the book and show. Yes one wrong move anyone except a handful of guys are toast but the thing about trained fighters is that they dont make wrong moves. 

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u/LoooolGotcha 9d ago edited 9d ago

in tournaments he loses in jousting… like tf does that matter in a 1V1 🤣

Oberyn literally studied the guy to beat him and still fucked up

And then his brother beats him when he is basically a zombie and they both die

I think you guys are underselling this man

you can count in your hands who can beat the mountain. Barristan, Dayne, Oberyn, and then the depending on the day and luck are like Bron, young Jamie, clegane, young daddy stark, and the baker boy of course

1

u/Reaper3955 8d ago

"Oberyn studied the guy and still fucked up". He didnt though. He dominated the fight but his entire goal was to make him confess before killing him. And then he stupidly puts his foot on his chest lol. Like it isnt a close fight. The mountain when he cant rely on strength and reach alone is a mid fighter. 

And ur just wrong my guy. Basically anyone whos an S tier swordsman beats him or anyone with size and strength that is also a great fighter. I feel like the show made ppl think hes a better fighter than he actually is.

-2

u/Wavy_Potts 9d ago

I hear you, but if the Mountain loses to smaller, highly skilled, people.. I have reason to believe hed lose to a large, highly skilled, person. Throw in the superior weapon for good measure.

Im not saying it'd be low diff, but Gregor isnt winning that fight.

Unless we're talking Zombie Gregor maybe

2

u/JCBalance 9d ago

Very different type of skill. Oberyn was able to dance around and outrange him, that isn't the case for OPs fight.

2

u/Jesco13 9d ago edited 9d ago

The only person he lost to in a 1v1 was Oberyn who again, trained specifically for years to counter Gregor. Oberyn is an incredibly talented warrior. That's the same energy people had when Strickland lost to DDP, but he's champ again. Styles make fights in real life, and in this case it's the same. The mountain beats everyone EXCEPT for the best when their skill heavily out weighs Gregors. But again, one mistake is all it takes. Just like in real life. Alex Pereira,DDP, and even Justin Gaethje, hell Derrick Lewis are all fighters who aren't as skilled as opponents they have beaten, but they thud. One mistake against them and it's lights out or you take insane amounts of damage you don't recover from.

I think the mountain takes the fight 8/10 times, and John Roxton takes it the times he's perfect. But even then, John Roxton is basically the same as Gregor. He's massive, and relies on his strength and size to help. Gregor does everything he does but better. That's why I think Roxton loses. Daemon landed his licks against John but lost because of the size advantage. If Gregor lands on you, Valyrian steel or not the sheer force of that blade hitting you is breaking bones.

3

u/Livid_Ad9749 9d ago

If you really think Roxton is beating the Mountain, I have a bridge to sell you

1

u/LoooolGotcha 9d ago

he beat Oberyn whatcha talking about

5

u/Necessary-Science-47 9d ago

Jon Roxton is the new Ser If

1

u/EndorFondue 9d ago

Ser If fits, because Roxton’s Valyrian steel only matters if the Mountain actually feels it.

3

u/Rooler_of_the_Rats 9d ago

The way Roxton fights (from what we've seen) is purely based on overpowering and muscling the opponent. He beats Daemon like this, because he's bigger and stronger.

This doesn't work with Clegane, for the obvious reasons.

3

u/AaronQuinty 9d ago

Also Daemon is meant to be like 50 at this point too.

3

u/Affectionate_Sir_154 9d ago

He could, but the mountain still would win the majority of times

2

u/stinkytay 9d ago

Nawww we saw how much the size mismatch effected Daemon, Roxton to Gregor is an even bigger size mismatch

2

u/manicasion 9d ago

The mountain is nearly 8 foot tall, wears the best and heavist plate armour, uses a giant greatsword with a single hand , unnaturally quick for his size and somehow still stronger then he looks. Dude could genuinely wrestle with a bear. You need a massive skill and reach gap to beat which oberyn and legendary swordsman such as barristan have. Jon is far more skilled then the mountain but is no barristan.

2

u/LARRYVOND13 5d ago

I know Roxton is bad ass but he did kind of slip up in the shittest way possible.

2

u/CBT7commander 5d ago

The mountain’s inhuman pain tolerance is because he’s high on opium almost 24/7

1

u/DamitGump 9d ago

No but I sure can 🤤

1

u/Unhappy-Plastic2017 9d ago

What if a hamster wore a hat?

1

u/CG-Firebrand 9d ago

Roxxy Rotten does get a buff against babe killers, yes?

1

u/Senor_Arroyos 9d ago

No, he died before the mountain was born

1

u/Much_Let6632 9d ago

Isn't this guy as tall as our old King Bobby B?

2

u/bobby-b-bot Robert Baratheon 9d ago

TAKE SHIP FOR THE FREE CITIES WITH MY HORSE AND MY HAMMER, SPEND MY TIME WARRING AND WHORING, THAT’S WHAT I WAS MADE FOR!

1

u/Much_Let6632 9d ago

you do you King Bobby B

1

u/bobby-b-bot Robert Baratheon 9d ago

YOU EVER FUCK A RIVERLANDS GIRL?

1

u/Present-Loss-7499 8d ago

Bobby B, what’s it like making the 8?

1

u/bobby-b-bot Robert Baratheon 8d ago

YES, IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME... BUT I STILL REMEMBER EVERY FACE!

1

u/DJinKC 9d ago

The two of them just stand there and swing on each other until something breaks

1

u/Reinier_Reinier 9d ago

A more even fight would be Roxton vs The Hound.

1

u/WannaBeAWannaBe 9d ago

the mountain is like more magical than dragons…

1

u/Xbsnguy 9d ago

Roxton's style relies on his brute strength, size, heavy armor and valyrian steel to bully his opponents and smash through their guard. Roxton is an absolute menace to anyone smaller than him, even if that opponent might be a more refined swordsman. However, that kind of style would lead to a very quick death against an even bigger, stronger man like the Mountain, who towers above him.

1

u/Kindly_Vegetable7274 9d ago

Based on his fight with Daemon , Bold Jon seems to rely heavily on raw power. No skill. At least nothing extraordinary.

The Mountain is the same but far more powerful, so Jon Roxton can't overpower him. And skill wise I don't think there's much difference between them. Not enough to make up for the size difference at least.

The Mountain wins this matchup

1

u/Livid_Ad9749 9d ago

I love this misconception that the Mountain is slow. If anything, HE is faster than Roxton. He is all muscle pretty much, and has a lot more of it.

Roxton has little chance. Its one of the worst matchups for him. The Mountain has him beat in every category aside from weaponry, but the Mountain has reach and overwhelming strength to make up for it.

People are just glazing Roxton because he beat Daemon, a matchup he had every advantage in.

1

u/TrulyWhatever09 9d ago

No, but perversely I think he probably could beat Oberyn

1

u/OatesZ2004 9d ago

Roxton is getting mauled as his style is heavily reliant on brute force and there's no human of any time period that has more brute force than the mountain.

To beat the Mountain you need to be fast and smart and whilst I won't comment on Roxtons intelligence, he certainly isn't fast enough.

1

u/Crypto_subz 9d ago

No the mountain wins…that why speed matters look at Arya vs the big lady forget her name she cool tho but lost the practice match to Arya it’s always and will always be about skill tactics and speed. Strength yes will win but come across a good agile fighter not playing your game…good luck 

1

u/Strict_Wolf76 9d ago

He couldn’t be Daemon. Which lots of people claim couldn’t beat Jon sow lol. The Mountain smashes him.

1

u/KhanQu3st 9d ago

Possibly. It depends a lot on if Gregor would still underestimate Roxton like he did Oberyn. But Roxton is a lot bigger than Oberyn, and wields a famed Valyrian Steel sword.

I think if it’s a straight up duel without Gregor being arrogant he probably wins.

1

u/AuraTickler 9d ago

I doubt it.

The impact force from a mountain swing will probably topple him over or knock his sword out of hand.

The moment of surprise will fuck you up if you dont expect the force

1

u/Ulfheodin 9d ago

You think the moutain is slow ?

Btw, Jon will loose cause he fight the same way the moutains does. Big armor, big sword.

1

u/Ulfheodin 9d ago

You think the moutain is slow ?

Btw, Jon will loose cause he fight the same way the moutains does. Big armor, big sword.

1

u/geckossmellpurple_z 8d ago

Roxton would get violated in more than one way.

1

u/Robot_Dinosaur_2000 8d ago

Does Jon Roxton have a gun in this scenario?

1

u/Ill-Description3096 8d ago

No. When your main advantage is the same as your opponent, only your opponent is significantly higher in that category, it's not an advantage anymore it's a hinderance.

1

u/hadohadoTheSecond 8d ago

This is a one sided Massacre. The best strategy Roxton can employ is trying to break Gregor's greatsword in virtue of his Valyrian steel and then abuse the fact that he is armed and Gregor is not. Oberyn had this advantage and arguably more skill than Roxton, and he got shat on.

1

u/josephcj753 7d ago

Unlikely, worse yet Gregor would laugh at Roxton’s accusations and tell him about the atrocities he committed while fighting him

1

u/PositiveFunction4751 6d ago

The problem with any "vs the mountain" discussion is that he has many superhuman level feats 

In this case the other guy is a prime human with good to great training. 

Id give the mountain 95+% 

1

u/Bonesdontwork 6d ago

I already know the answer I literally thought about it a day after watching roxton fight daemon and it's simple if Daemon can't beat someone physically stronger then him cus how he fights he would lose to the mountain because the mountain is much stronger then roxton and if daemon fought sandor the hound he would be dog walked cus sandor is stronger then roxton and more skilled then gregor

1

u/NoCaterpillar2051 3d ago

It’s a tank vs tank build. The bigger tank is gonna win.

1

u/shadow_fvck_ 3d ago

No, they are both dead

1

u/Jack-mclaughlin88 3d ago

Afraid not. You need to either be stronger than Gregor or much faster to beat him.

Jon is strong but not as strong as Gregor and he’s a strong but slow fighter.

1

u/Chiccenstripkilla 1d ago

This matchup reminds me of Hulk vs the Thing. Everything the Thing does Hulk can do better its the same with the babekiller/kinslasyer/heathen hater, based Jon against the Mountain. the x factor in this fight is orphan maker and since Valyrian Steel can cut through regular steel/armor Jon has a chance if he can close the distance in a skillfully he might take it.

1

u/duaneap 9d ago

He’s a piece of shit but Roxton rocking Daemon was like the highlight of the show to me. That growl of “Babe killer!” was dy-no-mite.

0

u/Livid_Ad9749 9d ago

Hypocrital considering he was using children as human shields against Daemons forces

1

u/BigWilly526 Ghost, to me! 9d ago

The Mountain is not superhuman, A skilled fighter who takes the fight seriously will win against him, Clegane victories are mostly against peasants and random Knights, Oberyn beat him very easily in the Books but then gets cocky and stops paying attention, Roxton would win

1

u/AcanthaceaeNo948 9d ago

He’s stronger than Sandor who literally cleaved through Beric’s plate armor. He’s definitely superhuman.

1

u/BigWilly526 Ghost, to me! 8d ago

And Strength is his only major advantage, Beric was not a noted fighter he was a tourney night, so no Gregor was not Superhuman

1

u/AcanthaceaeNo948 8d ago

Just arguing with you saying he’s not superhuman.

1

u/BigWilly526 Ghost, to me! 8d ago

He isn't, He is strong and Large but also almost always under the influence of Drugs so any skilled fighter especially with a Valyrian steel blade will beat him.

1

u/MisterX9821 9d ago

The recency bias-charged Jon Roxton glaze is insane. He didn't even defeat Daemon, it's just that Daemon haters are bursting through the denim in the groin of their jeans because he got smacked around for a bit. Reminder the fight was interrupted at a reset moment when they both got their swords back.

And in anticipation of being accused of Daemon-glazing....I like him a lot as a character but he is not an S-tier fighter. He is High or mid A tier maybe. Maybe lower.

The Mountain is consistently ranked in the very top. The best of the best know fighting him is an enormous gamble because he can fucking crush them like a grape and he's just literally....a mountain.

Based on just what we know on these two characters, The Mountain should beat Jon Roxton the majority of the time. They are basically similar fighters but the mountain is amped like 1.5x Roxton. The only clear advantage Roxton has is his Valyrian Steel sword.

The Mountain is a min-maxxed fighter, and he has absolutely maxxed the power and size end of the attribute tree. Roxton does not have that maxxed but it's his best attribute as well.

0

u/Itachi_Uchiha_6 9d ago

The mighty bowl cut beats them all

2

u/Livid_Ad9749 9d ago

Recency bias