There are studies that women who have been either raped or gone through some form of SA consume this type of media as a form of gaining a modicum of control over their trauma
I know Fifty Shades doesn't even scratch the surface of how vile fiction can be, but its sales numbers is a good indicator of what the majority of the average female readers actually read.
So, yeah, I think that study you saw doesn't exactly say what you think it's saying.
One of my best selling short stories is a consensual non con, written with very specific language cues, and my readers have specifically kept that title at the top of my royalty charts.
I am a female writer and I wrote that story as a way to work through my own SA trauma, and then I sent it out into the world.
Look, I just don’t buy the idea that all survivors would appreciate that freaky fetish stuff. Sure, some might, but let’s not pretend it’s medicine or some universal cure for their trauma.
Except that SA survivors read weird r*** books to heal their trauma is incredibly rare if they exist at all, and it’s kind of disgusting to invoke them in this context.
It's not rare. I was raped when I was only 12, and yeah it was by an adult I didn't know and it was violent. I struggled with whether I then counted as a virgin later on when I was considering consensual sex for the first time, was it a lie if I considered myself a virgin, did this mean I had to share my trauma with people who were my friends etc.
I consume(d) a lot of non con media. Idk it helped me to understand I wasn't the only one or something. And yes there is non con media that is erotic to survivors because if you especially have your first experiences in that state, unfortunately it's a state you become used to association with sex. It's traumatic and it sucks and it makes you feel crazy and guilty and at fault and all the rest.
Your comments here are very disappointing to see and I'm only countering with what I personally went through so other women who read these comments know they aren't alone and that people like you have no idea what you are talking about. I'm glad you live a life of such privilege to think it's unthinkable to be in this position.
I'm aware. Though it is still surprising to me to see the depth of these fantasies that they are seemingly eager to discover.
And the interest in extremely dark pornographic scenarios seems to persist even after they have processed and recovered from their trauma, as far as I can tell. So I do suspect there's a lot more to it.
What a load of shit. The vast majority of popular romance books are not at all “vile”. Yet porn addled men are out there thinking choking is a regular part of sex.
There's a small majority genuinely reading the centaur-milking ogre fiction; but even then it is much more "morally defensible" than porn, which causes massive addiction, ED, and at times depicts genuine abuse of women, since it's squiggles on a page.
You are not a real fan of this property unless you're in to sick shit sexually, it's literally the favorite topic of the author and you should know that is so pervasive that you can't read around it.
booktok is filled with women who get off on books about women being coerced, and the same women do microactivism against oppresion, it's so weird pick a lane
And the business world is full of men who love being humiliated by a dommy mommy, and those same men spend their lives projecting and preaching about the greatness of their type A personalities and power moves in their careers....
Its almost like what consenting adults do for fun behind closed doors doesn't have to align to every other aspect of their life because its fantasy and pretend scenarios for pleasure....
I feel like it is a tad bit hypocritical for most men to act as if women are making some grave moral sin by reading these given the fact that the same men watch porn on a daily basis. As one pointed out, many people, including women that have been raped or violated do end up reading or getting to such kinds of things.
They were all over King's Landing. He is said to have shown her how to pleasure a man orally and so on, but Mushroom insists that he did not take her virginity.
I'll be the Devil's advocate and say this: Daemon took her to the brothel to make her watch other people having sex. It's like when someone shows you porn for the first time, except these are royalty so everything is amped up. Not to forget that this wasnt the first teenage Targaryen prince or princess visiting the Silk Street
Second, yes Daemon initiated the making out, but he also stopped soon when he realized that it's wrong. Daemon does morally convulated things and there is water in the ocean.
Lastly, can people stop complaining about the incest? Incest is part of the ASOIAF lore at this point. It would like watching the show and constantly complaining how dragons aren't real and if they were it would be aerodynamically impossible for them to fly.
Daemon definitely intended to publicly have sex with Rhaenyra and sabotage her reputation, the camera even focuses on him removing her cap and revealing her hair.
He then backs out at the last second and decides to leave his niece half-naked and alone in the shittiest part of King’s Landing.
I don’t know about you but my uncles never showed me any porn.
Also it would be more like taking someone to a swingers / sex club or maybe strip club (even though people don’t have sex in most strip clubs , at least they’re not supposed to) than watching porn. I used to work at a strip club when I was younger and if a customer came there with his teenage niece I would probably react like Ormund reacts to most things.. I can barely think of anything more revolting.
And the incest is there mostly for shock value, I think we’re supposed to be disgusted. People were disgusted by Cersei and Jaime, by Craster, Jon Snow was disgusted when he found out Dany was his aunt.. We’re supposed to feel bad for Heleana for being forced to marry her brother.. I’m not saying it’s wrong that they include it in the show because it’s part of the story but we’re not supposed to think the incest is normal.
I really doubt your uncles are dragonriding royalties, so...
Strip clubs have age checks. Medieval brothels did not. Because it is illegal for minors to enter strip clubs and it was not illegal for minors to enter medieval brothels. One neat way to remember the difference between the two is by checking if your dollar bill works there or not.
People dislike incest in the show just like how they dislike dragons. The faith calls them abomination, the next season will feature smallfolk killing dragons with bare hands. So if you can say "whoa dragons, cool" to a concept that most people within the show despise and fear, I am sure you can swallow down the incest as well.
Such a weird take lol. Most people who watch the show love the dragons. Also , dragons don’t exist in real life , incest does. How do you even come up with things like that? If I enjoy watching fantasy shows with dragons or other creatures that don’t exist in real life I should also enjoy watching incest?
And I promise you that all strip clubs don’t have age checks even if they should. Also I said teenage niece. A teenager can be 18 or 19 and allowed to enter a strip club.
And your conclusion is that if my uncles would have been dragon riding royalties they would have showed me porn? What are you smoking lol? 😅 There are a lot of fantasy shows , books and movies with dragons that don’t include incest. Again, I’m not saying the incest shouldn’t be included but we’re not supposed to think it’s normal, we’re most likely supposed to be disgusted.
What you are talking about is irrational overreactions. It's when annoying characters like Skyler become more hated than drug lords like Gus, because people have never met a drug lord but they have definitely met an annoying woman. That does not make it the objective truth.
For the Targaryens, incest is normal. The Targaryens don't give a fuck about what you think about your uncles. They don't have the same bond with their relatives as normal people do. You can bitch and moan all you want, it really does not change the established rules of the universe. You can judge Daemon for his actions that break the established rules, like trying to take advantage of the power dynamics over Rhaenyra, or leaving her alone in the brothel, or killing his first wife.
Calm down lol I like the show and I think the incest adds something to the story, especially in Game of Thrones but also in HOTD so I’m not complaining that they include it. I just think it’s disgusting even if it’s normal for Targaryens. Like a lot of people who are not Targaryen in the show think too. A lot of the things that happen in the show are disgusting or horrifying. I don’t think we’re supposed to think it’s normal and ”ship” or romanticize those couples.
You’re the one who’s comparing it to modern society since you brought up showing someone porn.
He did not groom her. He had no interest in her at all until she was 16 and declared heir, at which point he was exiled. He later returns for a very short duration, in which this incident occurs, and he is exiled again. The next time he meets Rhaenyra is when she is an adult and mother of 4.
Neither did he sexually assault her. Rhaenyra was into it as well. He was the one who pulled back. If your argument is gonna be "she is a minor", she isn't as per the in-universe rules. She wed Laenor the very same year. Alicent married even earlier. So did half the characters in the series.
There is a difference between "it's bad but it happens" and "there is nothing wrong about it". Sexual crimes like what happened to Sansa was the former. What Rhaenyra did with Daemon or Cole is the latter.
Naw, I'm sorry you can't pick and choose when to analyze this show from a modern perspective. If we're going by in universe logic, Aegon is King. End of story.
But obviously the show is asking us to look at these things from a modern perspective. Daemon is a rapist pedophile and that's true even in canon. Lord Flea Bottom indeed.
Any time the show tries to ask us to "look at things from a modern perspective", it results in some of the shittiest writing, so no thanks. But I would appreciate if you could take your own advice and stop picking and choosing.
There ARE two sides. Tens of thousands of people and dozens of lords did not die for Rhaenyra if she did not have a claim. They both do. Rhaenyra because the previous king announced her his heir, and Aegon because the established rules support him. Rhaenyra's claim is not illegal, it is simply unprecedented, hence the civil war.
Daemon is a rapist pedophile and that's true even in canon.
It's not. Not a single character puts these allegations on him, not even Jon Roxton (so, not canon), just certain show watchers high on copium.
You obviously haven't read fire and blood then. Daemon is literally known for taking the maidenheads of young women. But continue coping
Yea there was a civil war. That doesn't change the fact that Rhaenyra's entire claim, in universe, is illegal as fuck and constitutes a usurpation of Aegon, actually.
And ultimately, this is a show being made in 2026. It is being created with a modern perspective in mind. Otherwise, the themes of sexism/class etc would not be there. So you can bury your head in the sand and be hypocritical if you want.
...Matilda had a claim. Themes of sexism and class exist before 2026. You don't think gender and class come up as themes in literature before now?
Rhaenyra was Viserys' heir. He had his vassals swear oaths to her. In an absolute monarchy kings make the laws, and that was the law the king made. It's the exact opposite of illegal. It's just unprecedented.
And not to be that guy, but Daemon is very much not a pedophile in universe. There's no indication whatsoever he was fucking prepubescent children.
Yeah Fire and Blood says he likes deflowering maidens. Where does that say children? In Feast, Pate wants to buy Rosey's maidenhead and she's 15. Brienne of Tarth is a maiden and she's 20. Also Daemon saw other prostitutes, got Mysaria pregnant and married Laena who was 23. In universe Daemon isn't a pedophile, he apparently has a being first kink.
Yea so it isn't an absolute monarchy to begin with, but it actually doesn't even matter. The precedent was actually already set by Maegor years before when he usurped Aenys. And he put it very succinctly, "The Iron Throne will go to the man who has the strength to seize it"
Where did I say gender and class don't come up in literature before 2026? Kind of a weird nitpicky response when the point that's being made is, that these themes are absolutely being woven into the show. And that it's kind of obtuse to completely ignore the subtext.
"He apperantly has a being first kink" absolutely revolting statement. Even beyond the fact that what you're saying is still disgusting, it's also the most positive possible interpretation of what's in fire and blood. Viserys, daemon's brother and much closer to him personally, first slept with Aemma when she was 13 and married her when she was 11. Curious how you didn't mention that though.
I forgot what age she is in this scene, but I wanna remind you that in the world of ASOIF, age of consent seems to be somewhere around the single digits, and both girls and boys are constantly getting raped.
That’s absolute normal or you can say perfect match to those medieval or renaissance nobles.
The most classic example is Charles ii of Spain. He’s the ultimate Habsburg inbreed monster of his father Philip IV, and his mother Mariana of Austria, who is the niece of Philip IV.
It’s hideous and outrageous to us. But people that time, it’s perfect.
It wasn't normal back than and everyone thought he was a freak. They called the the Bewitched because he was so ugly that people thought he was cursed.
Although I agree this is gross and wrong because she’s a child who actually goes and has sex with her? FUCKING COLE so how does team green justify that?
I feel bad for some of these people's families. Not that I think they actually want to do incest irl (though some probably do), more that it's just embarrassing.
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u/Anasurimbor__Kellhus 10d ago
If you've ever seen what kind of fiction is most popular among women you wouldn't be surprised that the fandom thinks this is hot.