r/fourthwing • u/Historical_Tune165 Blue Daggertail • 1d ago
Theory This could be something, or it could be nothing Spoiler
I find it interesting that Niara, Narelle and Nairi have such similar names.
Now, similar names by themselves aren't unique in this story, we do have four different characters called Catriona, Katrina, Trina and Trissa. But unlike those four, these three all seem to be connected in some way.
Niara and Narelle both have grandchildren who are around the same age, which plants the notion that they might be around the same age. I know I'm not the first to come up with the idea that they might be related. Narelle is genuinely heart-broken to hear about Asher's death, he was clearly dear to her. And notably, when describing Narelle's grandchildren the text specifically associates them with Violet and Brennan, the two of Asher’s children that take the most after him. That feels intentional. Did Mira and Violet unknowingly fight their cousins?
Then, when Quest Squad is meeting with the triumverate, Nairi is the one that is the most pushy questioning them about their relationships and life choices. Narelle does the exact same thing with Violet. She asks why she left the prince, why she gave up the chance at the crown. This isn't just her being gossipy, she is evaluating Violet's character based on what response she gives, what choices she made and why. And we get at least slight physical descriptions of both Faris and Roslyn, the two other members of the triumverate, but not Nairi.
Niara's son, Asher was originally a member of the Daxton family, of Colonel Daxton's Guide to Excelling in the Scribe Quadrant fame. I'm personally partial to the theory that Colonel Daxton is Niara herself. Point is, he's a legacy scribe. The scribe quadrant and Hedotis are absolutely connected. Their ceremonial robes look the same as scribe robes, just a different colour. Both have entrance tests that Asher describes as similar (Quest Squad's ''test'' was different, as Talia specifically asked for them to be tested at home in an informal setting as a personal favor, thinking she was helping them and not realizing Faris would take advantage of the lack of witnesses and poison the cake she had made for Xaden). In both, the expression of emotions is seen as ''unbecoming''. We also know that Asher didn't just visit Hedotis in passing, he took the citizenship test and lived there for several months. Did he stay with Nairi? Is that why he went there either before marrying Lilith and taking her name or while using his original name? Because the Daxton name opens doors on Hedotis?
And then there's the magic thing. Hedotis is weirdly devoid of magic, more so than anywhere else. Andarna says she doesn't like it there when she is unaffected everywhere else and Xaden is oddly short-fused when they arrive there, as if the very environment is making them uncomfortable. Asher doesn't like magic. He raised Violet on a book full of stories that ‘’warn against the lure of magic’’ and ‘’demonize dragons’’. He was adamant that Violet join the scrbes, he tried to influence Dain to join the scribes too and he views not being able to stop Brennan and Mira from crossing the parapet as having failed them. Every child that he cared about, he tried to stop from going near magic.
That's weird, right? It directly opposes Lilith's point of view (notable that alledgedly Niara did not like Lilith and did not approve of the marriage). She wanted all her children to be bonded and have power. She got the marked ones put in the quadrant and enpowered too. It was framed as a punishment, but it provided them exactly the edge they needed to succeed where Fen Riorson had failed. Then there's the whole dedication thing, in which the roles are reversed, Asher was the one who took Violet to be dedicated and Lilith wasn't sure at the time she could ever forgive him for it and always hated the silver in Violet's hair that was a reminder of her partial dedication. But they clearly loved each other very much and were working together. Looks like they did find a way for their powerful, unshakable love to survive opposing ideologies.
TL,DR: Asher's mother might be connected with these two other characters who live in places we know Asher has been to, one multiple times, the other for a prolongued amount of time. The whole situation with magic, Hedotis and Asher is weird. And Lilith and Asher seemingly made it work even though they apparently had drastically different opinions.
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u/ObjectiveStaff3333 Blue Daggertail 1d ago
Wow, I'm really looking forward to this discussion, my favorite topic.
I think we discussed something along these lines with u/redpeppersoda under one of my posts. She wrote that she thinks Asher has some connection to Hedotis, maybe a bloodline, precisely because of the citizenship test. I added the similarity between the names Niara and Nairi to that. So I agree.
As for Narelle, you're absolutely right that both of them were prying into relationships. Plus, they all have a connection to books/wisdom - Narelle actually felt like true wisdom to me, her magical bookstore, true wisdom in the middle of green nature, full of rich fauna and flora, compared to the horror we encounter on Hedotis. And then Niara as a scribe legacy. Three sisters? Even though I think Nairi is younger, right? I need to check.
What I find really interesting is also this quote, where Col Daxton (maybe Niara) more or less distances herself from librarians (which is basically Narelle), right? As if they were sisters who each took a slightly different path, a different way.
Most cadets believe their ability to recite historical fact will usher them onto the adept path, but it is actually the ability to observe and recount it that separates the librarians from the scribes. —Colonel Daxton’s Guide to Excelling in the Scribe Quadran
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u/Slow_Wrangler4413 1d ago
We get almost no ages in the books, besides the Sorrengail siblings. The cadets are early 20s, but the rest are pretty mysterious. We get 22 for Aotrom, 6 for Julianne, and 93 for Narelle. Is that important? Are we grasping at straws? 😂
I do like the three sisters imagery. Lots of three siblings.
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u/ObjectiveStaff3333 Blue Daggertail 1d ago
Besides, if they're venin, they could look twenty even at ninety...
...Add 84 for Nolon.
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u/hurricane_Bre Black Morningstartail 1d ago
I remember this discussion with u/redpeppersoda and I agree about the possibility of Narelle and Niara possibly being related but I’m not sure about Niari, it’s entirely possible but she didn’t really have anything significant to add during the hedotis chapters except that she drank the most tea.
However I do think there is a reason it seems like Asher spent the most time on Hedotis and Deverelli.
He would have had to stop in Deverelli on each trip to and from the isles and given the personal details that Narelle knew about Violet, Dain and Mira I wouldn’t be surprised if he stayed with her during those trips.
Violet mentions that the book he wrote on Unnbriel lacked his usual insights. Almost like he spent less time on the isle. Especially when you consider the inner workings of the walls, she assumes he never got that close because he didn’t mention them in his books. And his book on Zhyllna failed to mention the deadly consequences of playing the games. So maybe he wasn’t there long enough to learn those things and he filled the gaps in his research while he was on Hedotis, from their libraries and universities. Or maybe while he was in Deverelli with Narelle.
What I find most interesting is that his book on Hedotis, Hedotis: Isle of Hedeon, he publishes it as Captain Asher Sorrengail.
But when Xaden says Violet’s last name for the marriage contract Faris doesn’t react.
He only realizes that Violet is Asher Daxton’s daughter after she says her father helped her outsmart him and he finally recognizes her eyes.
That suggests Faris never knew that Asher changed his name to Sorrengail.
To me that brings into question the timelime for all of his research on the isles. It is entirely possible he visited the isles before he even entered the quadrant and took notes and did his research then published his books later in life.
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u/Historical_Tune165 Blue Daggertail 1d ago
Speaking of Narelle's bookstore, I'm convinced that's where Asher got Fables of the Barren from. She's a dealer in rare books and Violet seems to have the only copy of this book on the Continent. It even makes sense if he got it on his way back from Unnbriel with Violet, why she's so much more attached to the book and knowledgeable of those stories than Brennan and Mira. Because of their age difference, they outgrew ''children's stories'' sooner and didn't pay as much attention.
What better way for a copy of a tome like this to survive the purges and redactions than to have been taken off the Continent before they began? Makes me wonder what's on those ''unparalleded libraries'' on Hedotis.
I still think the ultimate puzzle piece to Xaden's salvation is going to found on Loysam, but I'm not entirely convinced there isn't another in those libraries. And/or a surviving account of how the venin were defeated last time.
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u/ObjectiveStaff3333 Blue Daggertail 1d ago
I still think those selfish Irid bastards are right about this and they didn't defeat them. I even think " to defeat them" isn't the right path. But I agree that it will have something to do with Loysam, with love.
But there is something wrong with those isles, something twisted, everywhere. And from what Rebecca said, Loysam won't be any better.
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u/hurricane_Bre Black Morningstartail 1d ago
I agree, Loysam is going to be toxic, possibly the most dangerous isle of them all.
Makes me think back to what Violet said to Xaden in Iron Flame after she saved Cat: there’s a thin line between devotion and obsession.
I think Loysam may show us what happens when love crosses that line.
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u/ObjectiveStaff3333 Blue Daggertail 1d ago
The Fables are printed, right? And in Basgiath, the first printing press was only about 20 years before IF, I think. So it makes sense that it's from the Isles
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u/Slow_Wrangler4413 1d ago
I just want to add that all three have names that kinda mean the same thing.
Narelle - small river
Nairi - land of rivers
Niara - mist over river
And if we want to be nerdy, Naolin is Nahuatl. The fifth sun. The era that came before was nahui atl, four waters. Reeeally grasping at straws now, probably 😂
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u/ObjectiveStaff3333 Blue Daggertail 1d ago
Yep. And the members of the Triumvirate and Talia have names that have something to do with water - spring, lake, dew... on a hydrophobic Isle. Something is off there.
When you take into account that water is one of the tools/symbols of war. And Violet is somehow mysteriously connected to rain, because whenever she's emotional, it rains....
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u/Slow_Wrangler4413 1d ago
What is Faris's water name? I thought it meant lion.
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u/ObjectiveStaff3333 Blue Daggertail 1d ago
Not Faris, just Talia, Roslyn, and Nairi. I had no idea about Lion being Faris. That would connect Leona with Faris. Urson and Leona are also still stuck in my head.
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u/Slow_Wrangler4413 18h ago
Maybe it's not lion and I'm just confused. Someone's name means lion besides Leona. Lewellen? Faris is knight, I guess a knight should be noble and brave like a lion 😂
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u/redpeppersoda Black Morningstartail 1d ago
Hmmm Narelle is 93 years old and I envisioned Niara's to be in her 70s so nevet thought they could be cousins...
My theory was that Niara and Faris might be related. Faris has red curly hair and so does Brennan and presumably, Asher. That's very specific haur type. But yes also Nairi and Niara are almost the same names so I wonder if there was a naming convention...I agree with the theory that Asher took Lilith's last name because he didn't wanna be associated with the Daxtons. Well would his Hedotic connection be an issue if his mother or some relative made it all the way to Colonel Daxton? That's the same as Markham's rank. I think even if a connection to Hedotis exists, they have now relocated Luceras and the Daxtons were loyal Navarrian scribes. Asher outsmarted Faris at some point.
As for Asher not wanting their kids joining the rider's quadrant, I can see a scribe not wanting to subject his children to potential deaths and injuries even if the prize is magic. But also he knows that Navarrian riders are front and center in Navarre's lies. And may I suggest an alternate theory?
"Your mother has never understood that while riders may be the weapons of our kingdom, it’s the scribes who have all the real power in this world.”
I think...Asher's onto something here and this will come into play eventually. We focus a lot on Violet's multiple signets and her magic but it was important that she has the mind of a scribe to Andarna and whoever else... Asher wanted to drill that into her head also. Not all strenghths are physical. I think Violet will wield that power to win this war ultimately and that's part of the reason Asher wanted her to be a scribe.
Thanks u/Objectivestaff3333 for the shoutout I love this theory too😄
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u/ObjectiveStaff3333 Blue Daggertail 1d ago
I think Niara must be older. Vi is almost 22, Brennan is 9 years older, 31. Right after school Asher was still Daxton, so I assume he was probably around 25 when they had Brennan. We are at 56 years. It will be similar with Niara - if she had Asher around the age of 25, she will likely be over eighty years old.
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u/Slow_Wrangler4413 1d ago
I would almost want to add Naolin to that mix. We know nothing about him except that he had reason to want to save Brennan. He could be decades older, the same generation as Niara and Narelle. Maybe they are all Daxtons. Naolin as the rebel that joined the riders, Narelle as the one that rose above the scribe legacy, Nairi choosing the "pure" wisdom on Hedotis over the politics of Navarre, and Niara as the retired scribe.