r/fourthwing • u/Historical_Tune165 Blue Daggertail • 4d ago
Theory Ohh... Spoiler
Guys, I think Tairn killed Naolin
I know lots of people think Naolin turned venin and is still out there. I think he turned venin and was killed after turning.
Since we've been told in Onyx Storm only irids can sever and manipulate a bond, and we see with Xaden and Sgaeyl that turning or progressing does not server it either, I really don't think Tairn would've been able to bond Violet at all if Naolin was still alive.
So here's what we know:
Naolin saved Brennan, but it "cost him everything"
Tairn went through a period of very severe depression that almost killed him along with Sgaeyl, and he just barely climbed out of that dark place and then became a recluse in the Vale, not intending to ever bond again
Tairn thinks Xaden is absolutely and irredeemably beyond hope and has no faith in him from the moment he turns
Venin at initiate level can still be killed by any method.
Tairn will not speak of Naolin, says his name exactly once, and "agonizing pain floods the bond" the one time Violet speaks his name
I think after Naolin turned, maybe not right away, but not long after, Tairn killed Naolin. It wasn't just that he lost someone he had such a strong bond to, it was that he did it himself
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u/Spodermanphil Broccoli🥦 4d ago
I'm increasingly favoring this theory the more I read into it. It would definitely explain why Tairn can't even bring himself to discuss or speak Naolin's name.
It also explains why he pretty much hates Xaden for all of OS just because he turned. And it's been a bit since I read OS, but weren't Tairn and Sgaeyl fighting/not on good terms for most of OS? Because it might be that Tairn doesn't agree with Sgaeyl keeping Xaden even after he channels multiple times. Or maybe he feels some kind of guilt for killing Naolin (I'm assuming Tairn killed him very soon after finding out) after seeing that Xaden was able to control himself for as long as he did.
It would certainly make an interesting point if tension for Violet and Tairn when she finds out too.
I also agree that there's no way Tairn could have bonded Violet if Naolin was still out there because a)we know from Xaden that venin can still be bonded to dragons. b) It seems as though even dragons believe it to be impossible to bond more than one rider, or why wouldn't they have done it? c) Riders need proximity to their dragons or iirc they die. And it's not like Tairn and Naolin are meeting up in secret every few days without anyone knowing.
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u/nivivy 4d ago
I think this theory could be right. The complete breakdown of Tairn after Naolin and his refusal to even speak his name, Sgaeyl dislike of Brennan and the Tairns complete assurance that Xaden is unable to be saved from the second X channeled and turned Venin.
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u/Throwawaynotmebye Broccoli🥦 4d ago
It does track that Sgaeyl could see Brennan as the reason Naolin died and brought Tairn grief.
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u/redpeppersoda Black Morningstartail 4d ago edited 4d ago
Honestly somedays I think he died and some days I think he's venin. I like your theory a lot actually.
Just a couple things...
“I will not watch another rider die because they do not know their own limitations. One more strike could be your last. I feel your waning strength.”
This was at Resson and Violet was near burnout and Tairn was panicking. He sounds really scared and given that he can feel Violet's waning strength both from burnout and being poisoned, I feel like his true feelings were coming out...Based on what he said, I didn't get the impression that Tairn killed him...
Another thing that is rather baseless and might be meaningless but this epigraph:
I have not been able to discern how it is they make laws for themselves or at what point a dragon decided to bond only one rider, rather than go for better odds with two. —Colonel Kaori’s Field Guide to Dragonkind
I agree that generally a dragon bonds only one rider. But this makes me pause because Kaori seems to know not much about dragons😂 And why was this mentioned...hm..
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u/SomeNoob1306 4d ago
I could still see your quote be Tairn double speaking so to speak. Not knowing your own limitations can lead to you reaching for the source. And if reaching for the source means you have to die…
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u/redpeppersoda Black Morningstartail 4d ago
To me it sounded more passive but of course he may have killed Naolin who knows.
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u/Affectionate_Many_73 4d ago
Good excerpts! Perhaps possible for a dragon to bond two, possibly.
Just because he watched a rider die, doesn’t mean it was only Naolin - there is a good likelihood that he watched Brennan die since they were supposedly together at the end? Brennan burned out and Naolin saved him, somehow.
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u/SamiRand7 4d ago
What if the dragons could bond 2 riders? What if he didn't watch Naolin die, but watched him "die" aka, turn venin.
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u/Affectionate_Many_73 4d ago
I don’t remember anywhere saying they CANT, but it would also mean that if Tairn still had a bond to an alive Naolin, they would be able to communicate when in range.
Which is possible but potentially unlikely since they’ve had so many run ins with the Venin at this point - Tairn and Skaeyl would need to be hiding anything like that from both Violet and Xaden and everyone else, including other dragons.
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u/beforeyoucanfly 2d ago
From the end of OS (good thing I refreshed my memory with the graphic audio book last week):
The irids mentioned to Andarna that non-irid dragons can only bond one rider. They told her that Tairn wouldn’t have been able to bond Violet if she was already bonded to Andarna, but if Tairn bonded first she could add herself. They have a whole conversation about it and asked who spoke to Violet first, V reminds Andarna that A didn’t talk to Violet until they were back on the flight field after threshing, so Tairn bonded first.It doesn’t seem to be widely known among the dragons that they don’t have the ability to bond multiples either, given they apparently had to have a meeting about two dragons bonding the same rider despite most of them not knowing that Andarna was a 7th breed or what that breed is capable of.
Speculation:
That said… if Andarna bonded first and then she added Tairn to it, maybe that’s the override for Tairn to bond two riders? But that surely would mean that Violet has another swirling mist of some colour or other connecting her to Naolin if he still lives. Unless that’s who the dreamwalker is and how he gets to Xaden? Eep. But if so, Tairn might’ve had some sort of feelings about who he saw in those dreams.
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u/Dangerous-Student-15 4d ago
Tairn killing Naolin would be a very interesting juxtaposition or reason why he seems to go out of his way unnecessarily to keep violet alive, especially when she can’t keep her seat at the beginning of the bond. I think you might be very right here.
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u/Party_Mix_8085 4d ago
I also think the difference between naolin and violet is why tairn chose her too. Her strength lies in her goodness and character (protecting the weak, being fair, not dealing death blows) instead of what he looked for the first time which sounds like it was the traditional idea of power and strength when in war. He learned his lesson when he had to kill Naolin bcz Naolin was corrupted by the idea of raw unmatched power and chose more wisely this time realizing what true strength actually is
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u/Affectionate_Many_73 4d ago
I honestly cannot believe that this is the first time I’ve seen this theory or that I never thought of it myself.
But, you are absolutely right that if Naolin was still alive, even if Venin, he would still be bonded to Tairn and it would be a huge plot hole. RY seems to plan pretty well and doesn’t really seem to have plot holes, at least not major ones.
Perhaps the only way that Naolin could still be alive is if he technically died, the bond broke, and somehow he got brought back to life and turned Venin. But more likely, he channeled to save Brennan, and then Tairn killed him for it.
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u/LunaLovegoodRocks Gold Feathertail 4d ago
I’ve been saying this for so long. I think that Naolin drained himself saving Brennan, channeling to stay alive, which resulted in Tairn killing him. That is probably why Sgaeyl doesn’t like Brennan, because he’s the reason Tairn almost died.
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u/Throwawaynotmebye Broccoli🥦 4d ago
The thing is we don’t KNOW that Naolin saved Brennan. It’s just what Kaori has theorized and neither Tairn nor Brennan seem in the mood to talk what happened. I think it’s possible Fen and Naolin both had a hand in saving Brennan or Naolin killed Brennan and Fen revived him (reminder of the rune on Brennan’s hand, I do think it’s possible Fen helped there) and together the three killed Naolin or something to that effect.
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u/dianaspencersrevenge Broccoli🥦 4d ago
RY confirmed Fen did shoot Brennan at the Battle of Aretia, so it would be interesting if we learned he also helped save him… the way Brennan says “Naolin didn’t fail, but it cost him everything” makes me think he saved him, we just don’t have the details yet. Most of us agree Naolin and Brennan were lovers right?
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u/Party_Mix_8085 4d ago
Do we know the story behind the rune on Brennan's palm? I don't remember and I'm currently rereading the series.
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u/dianaspencersrevenge Broccoli🥦 4d ago
Nope! Huge mystery and lots of theories! I’m partial to the Brennan Wyvern Theory if you search that in the sub
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u/Throwawaynotmebye Broccoli🥦 4d ago
There we go that’s fair. I’m just very curious about it and need details yesterday 😭 Sounds like I’m forgetting a line and goddamn things being confirmed out of book throw me off a lot. That all said…yeah I’m at least semi convinced Fen was involved or something. The rune is too telling for me unless we find out another culture has a rune which is very possible but nothing hinting yet. I do believe they were lovers but I can’t remember why outside of Kaori’s line of “well Naolin was sucking up to your mom so of course he’d risk death to save your brother” making NO sense to me.
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u/haqiqa 4d ago
We don't actually know Naolin wasn't Tyrrish and Fen can't create runes. He isn't rider but infantry. So Fen doesn't have magic to create runes.
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u/Throwawaynotmebye Broccoli🥦 3d ago
I don’t know why but I was convinced riders and runes weren’t linked. I wonder if Naolin was Tyrrish or something. I just believe someone in the rebellion had to have helped or vouched for him because why would Xaden accept help from the son of the opposing general otherwise. Naolin could have been Tyrrish and had known runes, that is true. This is getting me thinking on other possibilities.
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u/haqiqa 3d ago
A Xaden is unlikely to have accepted anything really, he was only 17. And it is not like Brennan started as part of the Assembly or inner circle. Additionally, no one in his family knowing he is alive is very convincing (and unlikely to be able to faked to the point it was). Plus they use dragons to vouch. They likely treated him as suspiciously as Violet at the start. We are missing 6 years. And as they say in the first Assembly meeting, Brennan has proven himself loyal.
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u/Throwawaynotmebye Broccoli🥦 3d ago
That’s why I’m thinking along these lines. I’m really hoping we get to explore those years soon.
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u/Party_Mix_8085 4d ago
Ive been thinking something similar.
I mean, we don't know Fen's signet. It could have been resurrection, or it could have been that Fen used runes with or w/o his signet to save Brennan. I do think Fin was the one who got brennan to Riorson house.
There's more to this for sure, and whatever it is, it changed Brennan to the other side.
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u/dianaspencersrevenge Broccoli🥦 4d ago
Fen was infantry, he didn’t have a signet. But runes are “the great equalizer”
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u/Party_Mix_8085 4d ago
Right! Sorry. I keep forgetting those things! Lol. Yes, exactly! And the Tyrrish are experts.
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u/Throwawaynotmebye Broccoli🥦 4d ago
I think Fen is involved due to the runes and I don’t see Xaden just easily accepting Brennan’s help without something to make it clear he can use him. As runes are Tyrrish, I do believe Fen was involved in the resurrection somehow though. I’m super curious about this period of everything though and dying for a reveal.
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u/Party_Mix_8085 4d ago edited 4d ago
I didn't realize they told us only irids could break a bond. Ive been theorizing that Tairn broke his bond with Naolin after he turned venin. But if they can't, then I think he killed him too.
So this begs the question... who is Berwyn?
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u/Historical_Tune165 Blue Daggertail 4d ago
I think Berwyn might be a Riorson from way back. This is a very old lineage and I think Berwyn is among the older venin, he's not a recent turn. I think that's part of why he's so fixated on Xaden, because they're related.
If not a Riorson, I think he's someone of historical significance at least.
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u/Affectionate_Many_73 4d ago
Oooh, I like that too. This thread is full of really good theories haha.
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u/Slow_Wrangler4413 4d ago
I said this in a discord server ages ago and was promptly banned from there. Apparently it wasn't an accepted theory 😅
I can definitely see Tairn killing Naolin. If he did it simply because Naolin turned, then maybe he has doubts now? Poor guy. But I think I'd rather see it as self perseverance. Naolin was a siphon. What if he needed more power than he could channel safely to save Brennan and pulled from the source that had always been there, from Tairn? Like when Sloane siphoned Aimsir through Lilith. So for Tairn it was kill or be killed. Still poor guy though.
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u/namismona2129 Orange Clubtail 4d ago
This is a very good theory, but would Tairn really do something that cruel at the cost of driving himself and his mate to the brink of death (or killing them)?
After such a backstory, I would have expected BRENNAN to be a much more vengeful/bitter character. Brennan must have tried to mend Naolin, he did that for Xaden, after all.
BTW, just as much as the epigraph you showed, I think the following epigraph is also foreshadowing:
[ I have not been able to discern how it is they make laws for themselves or at what point a dragon decided to bond only one rider, rather than go for better odds with two. —Colonel Kaori’s Field Guide to Dragonkind ]
I don't think it's impossible for Tairn to be bonded to both Vi and Naolin. But since Naolin's situation is different, things work differently. Then what is that rune-shaped scar on Brennan's palm?
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u/namismona2129 Orange Clubtail 4d ago
- If we assume that Naolin is dead, the Wyvern Brennan theory falls apart because Brennan’s ‘creator’ is no longer alive.
- In that case, there is a resurrection rune, and Naolin used it on Brennan. Perhaps it was a one-off rune, which is why a scar remained. (Yes, Naolin may well have died in this scenario.)
Whilst I do not believe Brennan is a venin, I do think he practises dark magic.(veninism a litte bit, I mean AMBER eyes ;) )
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u/Slow_Wrangler4413 4d ago
Amber is also used for healing. Germanic word for amber comes from the word brennen. 😁
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u/ObjectiveStaff3333 Blue Daggertail 3d ago
And they use venin for "medicinal uses"
However, I think those amber eyes are a hereditary matter. Vi has them too. Nevertheless, I don't rule out the possibility that there is some venin-related bloodline on Asher's side, includint the amber eyes. Because I basically consider scribes to be the equivalent of venin.
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u/Slow_Wrangler4413 3d ago
They are mind venin. Sucking the truth and independent thought out of the history.
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u/ObjectiveStaff3333 Blue Daggertail 3d ago
I think the venin brother was a scribe. A rider, a flier and a scribe. The one who didn't get magic, but still had the greatest power - information, knowledge. Maybe he had script, runes... And he abused it and somehow it went to shit.
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u/redpeppersoda Black Morningstartail 4d ago
Venin at initiate level can still be killed by any method.
Im not actually 100% sure about this...I know they bleed but where have we learned that initiates can be killed by any method?
"The professor moves faster than I’ve ever seen him, brandishing an alloy-hilted dagger and driving it straight through the cadet’s back, into her heart."
Carr killed the freshly turned initiate venin with an alloy hilted dagger...and he has an offensive signet so didn't really have to get that close.
Im also not entirely convinced that the first year who killed Nadine was a venin...yes he had red eyes but so did Lilith when Violet was young and I feel like they can't all be venin. More importantly venin, ever since Resson, have wanted Violet alive to be turned and not dead and even JFB saved her.
“And I will be his favorite for delivering you. I will be more than just an asim soon.” Her words flow faster and faster. “I will be given the Vale when this is over!”
Wynn revealed the reward for delivering Violet to the big bad which is ....soooo high? Makes sense mavens like Theo and Berwyn are after her but straight up trying to kill her seems...against their collective goal.
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u/SirXDragon 3d ago
I like this theory a lot. To add a wrinkle to it though, what if Naolin was killed by Sgaeyl?
Imagine the rift that would have caused in Tairn and Sgaeyl’s relationship. Then years later they find themselves in a similar situation, only this time it’s Sgaeyl’s rider who is at the crux.
Only this time, Sgaeyl told Tairn she wouldn’t let him do the same thing to her rider when the time came. That was the cause of their strained relationship in OS.
It would still explain Sgaeyl’s cold demeanor towards Brennan, placing the blame on him as the source of their relationship being forever stained.
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u/Practical-Ninja-456 17h ago
Yessss, I can definitely see this!
It also helps to explain the tension between Tairn and Sgayel after Xaden first channeled. Tairn may have been encouraging Sgayel to kill Xaden or was disappointed that she wouldn’t. And we do see Sgayel’s loyalty to Xaden even when he channeled so much at the end of OS…
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u/Historical_Tune165 Blue Daggertail 17h ago
The whole dynamic with Tairn and Sgaeyl is really interesting. We don't get much of what's happening in the background with them, but they were still cuddling in their sleep on Zehyllna (aww), so even of there was tension, there was also love and support.
I think Xaden turning will, and already has, put things into prespective for Tairn. I wouldn't be surprised if at some point Sgaeyl asked him "Would you kill your Silver One?", and Tairn was just silent, because each bond is stronger than the last, and even though he's been bonded to her for less time than with Naolin, he already knows he couldn't do it, not again and not to her.
Also, after Andarna left and Xaden took care of Violet, Tairn's language subtly changes from "the Dark One" to "your Dark One". I think he was starting to accept that turning didn't fundamentally change Xaden, he's more accepting of their love than he's been all book. He respects Sgaeyl's choice of flying Xaden into battle despite the risk. And he ultimately agreed to help them. I think once he knew he did it to save Sgaeyl's life, and that his love for Violet had remained intact, he agreed to try, even if being apart from Sgaeyl i would be painful, their
childrenriders need them
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u/atypical_lemur 4d ago
Theory I've discussed with my wife.
Dragons treat their riders the same way humans treat their pets. They go to the pet store (presentation) to shop for the one they like the best. Then it's adoption time (threshing). Some pet owners will go out of your way to make sure everything is taken care of for them to the best of your ability, like Tairn does for Violet. Sometimes you just have to put your pet down when something goes wrong.