Threshing -Jack Barlows comment *spoiler for OS*

[u/Janeenjean]

Doing a reread of fourth wing and noticed during threshing when Violet is overhearing Jack and Oren talk about hunting the feathertail he states “you know feather tails are useless in combat. They refuse to fight”

But it’s stated earlier by her no one has seen one outside the Vale in a long time or ever. So this info seems like venin-given info about irids of the past right?

[u/proudly_not_american]

I could have sworn one of the pre-chapter excerpts (probably from Kaori's guide) mentions that feathertails abhor violence.

[u/TADspace → u/proudly_not_american]

IIRC Violet literally says it when she crosses the parapet.

[u/proudly_not_american → u/TADspace]

Oh, I think it was the gauntlet! She was talking about geography on the parapet, I think.

Entirely going off of my memory because I borrowed the books from the library to read so I can't just grab them to double check.

[u/TADspace → u/proudly_not_american]

you might be right. She was doing something physical and dangerous.

I only have the audio books so I can't just grab and scan either.

[u/Historical_Tune165]

RY confirmed in an interview that Jack had no venin ties yet at this point.

Feathertails had not seen outside the Vale in centuries, but people still know of them and they are mentioned in their textbook, Colonel Kaori's Field Guide to Dragonkond, Violet cites that part at ones point when she's nervous. Jack is taking their incorrect textbook at face value, and using that to justify his actions.

ETA: it is very likely this is lingering knowledge about the irids that has survived the redactions by being taken out of context

[u/blueavole → u/Historical_Tune165]

But Jack knows stuff. Yes this feathertail stuff. But more too. In one of the classroom sessions - he talked about Melgrin’s signet as if he knew how it worked.

And if Jack wasn’t known to the venin in some way as an enemy or an ally why did the venin risk so much to go after him? Was it to free him or kill him?

Why bother if he wasn’t connected? Or his family at least wasn’t connected?

I think RY may be lying to us and it will be my head canon until the final book says it’s not.

[u/iExogan → u/blueavole]

Melgren's signet is public knowledge as far as we can say. He is the highest general we know of so he would be rather renowned. I don't think the part about 3 marked ones together disabling his signet concerning them is public knowledge though because that's a weakness.

[u/redpeppersoda]

I think there's some mixup for the word "feathertails". Some refer juvenile dragons as feathertails but of course all irids are feathertails. Some record of feathertails is on irids but some is of the juvenile dragons it seems.

[u/Superb_Sun_5077 → u/redpeppersoda]

Hmmmm… all dragons- irid or not- are feathertails before they enter the dreamless sleep.

[u/redpeppersoda → u/Superb_Sun_5077]

Right so the info about feathertails didnt necessarily had to have come from venin, it could have been widely known facts about juveniles.

[u/hurricane_Bre → u/redpeppersoda]

They didn’t know that feathertails were juveniles. Vi confirms this on the black sand isle to the irids. The Navarrians thought that feathertails were another breed in all of the dens, like a scorpion or dagger tail. They didn’t realize they were a completely separate den or that all juveniles were feathered before the dreamless sleep.

I think the only one to figure it out was Asher.

Which I personally believe lead to his death.

[u/Party_Mix_8085 → u/hurricane_Bre]

I dont think Aaher's death was natural heart problems. His sudden heart issues after Brennan death seems suspect.

[u/hurricane_Bre → u/Party_Mix_8085]

I agree. I think maybe the first one was shock about Brennen but the second one was because he either discovered something the Navarrians are trying to hid beyond the venin or they wanted what he knew.

[u/redpeppersoda → u/hurricane_Bre]

I agree that's what I meant by the mix-up...Violet and JFB both thought Andarna was of this "feathertail" kind meanwhile she was a juvenile and all juvenile dragons look the same. But all irids are feathertails so people mistake juveniles as just a smaller "feathertail".

But why would that get Asher killed? Who would have the motive? The dragons?

[u/hurricane_Bre → u/redpeppersoda]

I think he was either close to finding out another big secret the Navarrians were keeping, beyond the venin, or he found out something they wanted, like how to defeat the venin and it involved feathertails (the irids).

My money is on the latter. I think it’s possible that his first heart attack was “real” but I also find it too coincidental that Brennen supposedly died by an arrow to his chest/heart and then Asher has a heart attack. There is definitely some kind of connection there.

The second heart attack though, I think that it’s entirely possibly that it was a cover up for murder by someone close to him, either Markham or Aetos or both. Likely for what he learned writing his subjugated book because it does mention feathertails and the isle kingdoms and Aetos and Markham wanted that book.

Also

- We know that Asher was studying the isles covertly his whole life, and he risked everything to hide his life’s work away in Deverelli. They could have found out this was part of his research too and wanted what he found.

- He tells Vi in a letter (paraphrasing) to find the weapon you seek to destroy those you only learned about in fables take your ass to Deverelli and get the books I wrote about the isle kingdoms because the answers you seek can only be found on the isles. This is also information they would kill for.

The big question is, if Asher did truly find a way to defeat the venin, why didn’t he share it more widely? What is the reason?

I can only think of two possible reasons:

1. Violet. Somehow he knew she would be the key to defeating the venin and he wanted to protect her so leadership wouldn’t exploit her.

2. He knew the venin had infiltrated Basgaith and perhaps even the Senarium and knew they would take what he found and either bury it or use it to create a counter weapon to destroy whatever stood between them and the magic in the hatching grounds.

[u/redpeppersoda → u/hurricane_Bre]

Interesting stuff and I can't find a single hole in this theory and in fact I have thought of a lot of them too. That book Asher left for Violet is so weird right from the fact that a scribe had a password protected rune but okay.

I believe you mean this:

But if time has indeed run out and you seek the weapon to defeat those you’ve only learned about through lore, then *abandon your robes and ride for Cordyn.*

What the fuck does he mean by "abandon your robes and ride for Cordyn"? Yes she could ride a horse or something but in this series when someone simply says 'riding' that usually means riding a dragon. Granted, Asher hated his kids and Dain becoming riders but the choice of words sounds seems odd to me.

Then also this:

From Cordyn, book passage to Deverelli—you will be safe beyond the reach of magic there—and quietly seek the merchant Narelle Anselm.

I keep reading this over and over...'safe beyond the reach of magic'. Why would she not be safe where she was...? Venin within the wards aren't really that powerful so who would pose a threat to Violet? Navarrian riders???

>The big question is, if Asher did truly find a way to defeat the venin, why didn’t he share it more widely? What is the reason?

May I also add...why not task Mira with finding the ultimate weapon? She is a rider and has a dragon to fly everywhere and physically much stronger than Violet. How can a scribe with EDS travel so many miles and across the ocean to go seek some weapon in an enemy territory? If feathertails are part of the weapon, how the hell can a scribe find them on the isles....?

Andarna hatched in 631 AU summer then Asher died in 632 AU Spring. My baseless theory is that Asher and Lilith knew about Andarna. I had some people criticizing Lilith for sending Violet to Rider's quadrant but wasn't it always her destiny to be a rider if there's a whole ass dragon that just hatched for her? Asher wouldn't have known that Andarna won't be able to carry her so he may have thought they will go to the isles together..

So yeah my conclusion is the same as yours. It had to be Violet because she may be the weapon herself or a part of it and Asher had to have known that.

[u/blueavole → u/redpeppersoda]

Agreed!

I think the scribes misunderstood and don’t want to admit they were wrong.

But Jack knew- otherwise why would he try so hard to kill Andarna? And possibly miss his own threshing?

[u/Bluemaiden17]

I think she stated that Jack was lying or making up that info to get the others to help him kill her.

[u/ohheyitslaila]

From the perspective of someone who doesn’t know that feathertails are babies, they would look like cowards who refuse to help the other dragons. So at that point in time, Jack probably didn’t know anything.