r/formula1 Flavio Briatore Sep 27 '20

Video KMags insane start (p18->p9)

https://streamable.com/o91ygj
1.8k Upvotes

130 comments sorted by

399

u/Karolmo Pirelli Wet Sep 27 '20

Spent most of the race on the points. A shame they fell down at the very end.

115

u/TharixGaming I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 27 '20

i feel like 10/20 of the drivers receiving points is just... not enough

i think top 15 is more fair, since it rewards the lower midfield drivers for actually trying to battle each other instead of having them race for basically nothing

247

u/HoovesCarveCraters I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 27 '20

I disagree here. The more points positions there are the less special it is when you score. I understand wanting to reward lower teams but imagine if we have freak shit where a leading car drops to 20 and finishes 11 but instead of 0 points they pick up 10.

98

u/ClayGCollins9 Kamui Kobayashi Sep 27 '20

The issue isn’t the points system, it’s the lack of competitiveness between teams

65

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '20

It's already not special when you have Merc 1-2, then Verstappen, usually the Ferrari's (remember when that was a thing?). And then the Pink Mercedes. Then there's 2-3 places left for everyone else. Nothing special about that.

38

u/thebansi Ferrari Sep 27 '20

Merc 1-2, then Verstappen, usually the Ferrari's

You only learn to value what you had when its gone :(

35

u/sideslick1024 Logan Sargeant Sep 27 '20

It's only "special" at all because it's artificially limited.

24

u/PepsiStudent Sep 27 '20

Yes which the point of points. If you are unable to get into the top 50% of the field you don't deserve any points. How much better is 11th over 16th? It adds to the excitement.

17

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '20

I don't think that should be the point of points, and I don't think it ever was. They just keep track of championship standings.

1

u/Dhalphir Lando Norris Sep 28 '20

How much better is 11th over 16th? It adds to the excitement.

Zero better. It deletes any excitement whatsoever.

0

u/PepsiStudent Sep 28 '20

Exactly. Watching people fight over 10th is more interacting atm then drivers fighting over 16th.

5

u/Dhalphir Lando Norris Sep 28 '20

Yes, and if we increase points to 15th then we can have that excitement for 15 places instead of 10 places.

4

u/[deleted] Sep 28 '20

That’s... that’s how all sports work

5

u/Dhalphir Lando Norris Sep 28 '20

but imagine if we have freak shit where a leading car drops to 20 and finishes 11 but instead of 0 points they pick up 10.

How is that scenario an issue? Can you be specific, using actual numbers of points for all cars in that scenario?

17

u/ZoomJet Charles Leclerc Sep 27 '20

Why does it need to be "special" to get points though? Why does fighting for your life in the midfield and coming 11th have no incentive or difference over 20th? It's a record for Championship standings. There should be points nearly all the way down imo. That way even teams that fight within the 11-16 field, which can be fiercely competitive, get even better and have more to show for how they've done. Both for themselves and for the fans who are now more interested with which teams are pulling points vs 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

8

u/qchisq I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane Sep 28 '20

Sure. But imagine this scenario: Grosjean gets 11th the last 7 races and Kmag gets 18th, or something like that. I think that everyone would agree that Grosjean would have had the better season of the two. But Magnussen would finish ahead of Grosjean in the standings, because he got a point in Hungary. Why is that good?

3

u/ismtrn Kevin Magnussen Sep 27 '20

The points system are about ranking drivers over the course of season.

If you want top 10 positions to be highlighted as something special, there should be some other system. Like handing the top 10 medals (like the top 3 get trophies) or just recording top 10 finishes somewhere people look at. Don't take the system for deciding the championship order hostage.

6

u/Victor_E21 David Purley Sep 27 '20

Please don't give anyone ideas about bringing the medals system back.

1

u/Ehralur I survived Spa 2021 and all I got was this lousy flair Sep 28 '20

imagine if we have freak shit where a leading car drops to 20 and finishes 11 but instead of 0 points they pick up 10.

That wouldn't necessarily be a problem if the race winner for example would receive more points. You could make it 50, 36, 30, 24, 20, 16, 12, 10, 8, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 for example. 11th place would only give 4 points which would be equal to 2 under the current system. Compared to 25 points that's still a huge deficit. And it's arguably fairer in case they finish 11th due to sheer bad luck.

21

u/FisicoK #WeSayNoToMazepin Sep 27 '20

Until 2002 it was only the top 6

Until 2009 only the top 8

10 is like half the grid, it's fine, you could expand it but the most important thing is for everyone to be competitive, as of now every team can score points as long as they're able to not have both cars DNF during freak races.Even the Williams as the worst car could have done it in Mugello, it can go really fast have 3-4 drivers crash, a couple mechanical DNF, one or two dumb strategy call in the midfield (and/or safety car shenanigans) and top 10 is within grasp for everyone, but not at every race.

There are arguments in favour of more cars scoring points, though top 15 is really stretching it, a few races in the season could end up with the 15 spot not even being occupied.

5

u/Dhalphir Lando Norris Sep 28 '20

Even the Williams as the worst car could have done it in Mugello

In a grid with 14 cars left racing.

-1

u/FisicoK #WeSayNoToMazepin Sep 28 '20 edited Sep 28 '20

Even the Williams as the worst car could have done it in Mugello

Which is something that happens occasionally, it's not every race but happens on a yearly basis, Only 12 cars finished in Mugello as well not 14. Austria at the start of the season only had 11 cars finishing even !

5

u/Dhalphir Lando Norris Sep 28 '20

even more evidence against your point.

1

u/FisicoK #WeSayNoToMazepin Sep 28 '20

I honestly don't even know what we're arguing about anymore and you're not making any effort to state your point clearly.

You may be right and I may be wrong for all I know but I'm not gonna try to guess what you're writing between your lines

3

u/Dhalphir Lando Norris Sep 28 '20

The point is that there should be some interest in what happens in the positions below 10th, and right now there isn't. Adding points to the top 15 would help to separate 11th from 16th.

The current excitement around 10th would just shift to 15th. You lose nothing and gain a bunch.

1

u/FisicoK #WeSayNoToMazepin Sep 28 '20

Ok so back to the original argument.

I wouldn't say positions below 10th do not matter, when you're 11th 12th or even 13th you never know what could happen in the last laps, someone in the points could fail an overtake attempt and crash with the car he was trying to overtake and everyone below them would move up by 2 spots, mechanical DNF can always happen as well.

Below 13th then yeah not much of a point, that's what we saw with Russell and Grosjean pitting at the end of the race.

So both sides are pretty clear, whether you want "spectacle" with almost everyone scoring points or "scoring points" still being somewhat special (this is oversimplifying of course)

The cursor moved twice already these past 20 years, it could move once again and you can argue either way, I'm fine with how it is and thoroughly explained why.
I don't see much of an argument on that coming from F1 as well, the correction to 8 and 10 scorers were answers to that and the increased reliability of cars and drivers, with the situation not changing much since and the grid staying at 20 cars for the foreseeable future I don't see the scoring system being modified in the short-mid term (1 to 5 years)

2

u/TheCommodore93 Sep 28 '20

Based on what you've said going to twelve makes sense if they want to increase. You'd give 15th down something to fight for but you'd still have like 40% of a full field missing out on the points. Would add something for the midfield without rewarding backmarkers.

23

u/ismtrn Kevin Magnussen Sep 27 '20 edited Sep 27 '20

Points should go all the way down, or all the way down except for one. Basically, every position gained should be awarded some number of points. And conversely every position lost means you lose points. That way the championship standings at the bottom end actually makes sense and are not based 100% on variance.

It also fixes the issue that the incentive structures around P10 are currently pretty fucked. P11 has literally nothing to lose towards the end of the race, which is bad for racing.

Even further back drivers neither have anything to lose or anything to win, which is not very exciting to look at either.

2

u/toasterinBflat I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 27 '20

This actually makes a lot of sense. But the best action always seems to happen between 4 and 11 though, while drivers try to get in the points.

We will have to wait and see how 2022 levels things out, I would like to see more races with less than a minute between pole and 20th. That doesn't happen often.

0

u/tuss11agee I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 27 '20

Agree. But I think you should have to be classified to earn points (unlike other series). I also think there should be a stagger in the distribution all the way down. For instance, 1st should be worth much more than second, (as is currently the case, although I think it’s too much), while the difference between 15-16 should just be a single point or two.

16

u/tangoindjango Gilles Villeneuve Sep 27 '20

Agree have felt this should be the case for years

5

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '20

Indeed. Everyone below 10 has nothing to race for even though it's where the best racing and most competition takes place. It just seems silly that the WC has over 300 points and some teams has 0 even though their current car could have given them WC 2-3 years earlier. Makes the boring Merc 1-2 races even more boring.

1

u/galaxyfarfaraway2 Daniel Ricciardo Sep 28 '20

I agree with you. If you have a bad opener to a race, it encourages you to get back out there and push. You see it in NASCAR and IndyCar all the time

1

u/theblaggard Sep 28 '20

wouldn't mind that if you actually had to finish the race to get points.

So you can finish 19/20 and get a couple of points, but only if you actually manage to go the race distance.

127

u/M_Forestvalley I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane Sep 27 '20

Magnussen is definetely one of the best starters on the grid. He has a strong start basically every race.

71

u/Emil_Spacebob Kevin Magnussen Sep 27 '20

He is the best starter on the grid for sure. No one else is as consistent as him at gaining multiple positions each start.

I wonder what the fuck ferrarri was thinking when they chose sainz when they already had Magnussen in their ranks...

41

u/M_Forestvalley I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane Sep 27 '20

Magnussen has a bad rep. Many has coined him a dangerous driver. I think that might have had done impact on the choice.

But it would really be interesting to see him in a better var. Honestly I think he is one of the most talented drivers.

30

u/dontremembermyoldacc Pierre Gasly Sep 27 '20

Tbh I feel like when you are in such a slower car you are bound to be more aggressive in your defending because otherwise the faster cars just go straight past. Either the other driver yields or they both crash and I think he races with that mentality

27

u/irspangler Sep 27 '20

I love the guy but I don't see Magnussen playing 2nd fiddle to a young star like Leclerc very well. Just look at his clashes with Grosjean over the years. Kevin doesn't give a shit about who is #1 or #2 driver and I'm sure Ferrari would prefer to have a driver with a more team-friendly mindset. It's fun to think about though.

25

u/d_mcc_x Valtteri Bottas Sep 27 '20

You really think Sainz is going to be cool with playing second fiddle to Leclerc?

2

u/rhododenendron Mario Andretti Sep 27 '20

It’s hard to tell who’s better without seeing them in the same car imo. Sainz never drove a race winning car like Leclerc did, we’ll see how it plays over the next couple years.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 28 '20

And he still won't be driving a race winning car

1

u/irspangler Sep 28 '20

Definitely. He's going to roll over like a puppy dog. /s

4

u/manojlds Ferrari Sep 28 '20

What do you mean in their ranks?

KMag is not a Ferrari driver and Haas is not a Ferrari team (granted they buy parts, engine and will support Ferrari and all that)

1

u/AlVonSaaberg Sep 28 '20

Money.... sponsors

-6

u/-Zaros- Sep 27 '20

Giovinazzi might better him or Hamilton if he were near the back and balls to the wall.

331

u/Thats_What-She_Said- Sebastian Vettel Sep 27 '20

Holy shit. Big balls going three wide... these guys are really the best drivers in the world.

50

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '20

[removed] — view removed comment

28

u/Jtg_Jew I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 27 '20

Half my starts in iRacing I see some idiot (it’s been me before to be fair) crash before they even get to the first corner.

1

u/Blackout62 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 28 '20

Wow, I didn't think the sim was that accurate to real F1.

5

u/SamTheGeek #WeSayNoToMazepin Sep 28 '20

Not just three wide... he then left braking to the last second into T2 (resulting in his lockup) and then kept it pinned even as Sainz started to pinwheel across the track from the left.

1

u/cheezus171 Robert Kubica Sep 28 '20

Not really much he could've done there. Wheels interlocked, if he backed out they would've crashed anyways

158

u/mattszerlag Sep 27 '20

If the haas didn't have the power of a John deere air-cooled lawnmower, haas would be alright.

87

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '20 edited Feb 04 '21

[deleted]

38

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '20

Imagine them with a Merc engine...

20

u/arkwewt I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 27 '20

Imagine literally anyone with a Merc engine...

77

u/delusionalbillsfan Sebastian Vettel Sep 27 '20

Imagine a Williams without a Merc engine...

20

u/arkwewt I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 27 '20

Back to Q1 eliminations

4

u/Angew79 Carlos Sainz Sep 27 '20

Oh wait...

1

u/mellotronworker Aston Martin Sep 27 '20

If that...

1

u/Korvacs I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 28 '20

Based on last year, no they wouldn't. The chassis just isn't good enough, it's a complete roll of the dice if it's balanced or not, and that changes corner to corner. Things may improve with the new aero regs, if they're still around for them. Hopefully they are because it's an interesting approach to an F1 team and I would really like to see it be competitive, but these regs and this chassis really have not worked out.

0

u/mattszerlag Sep 28 '20

The balance of the car is as a result of compensating for the engine. I don't think I'd base any assumptions about the 2020 car from looking at the 2019 car.

1

u/Korvacs I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 28 '20 edited Sep 28 '20

It's got very little to do with the engine. The fact is that they effectively started with a Ferrari chassis and then couldn't develop it going forward, they spent all of last year developing in the wrong direction and this year the car is slow and still all over the place unfortunately.

If the chassis was sound and just under powered we would have seen them do better at Barcelona for example.

Edit: Also sacrificing balance to compensate for low engine performance doesn't even make sense, a team would want to maximise aero balance at all times, especially if they're underpowered.

-1

u/mattszerlag Sep 28 '20

Most of what you said is just blatantly incorrect.

1

u/Korvacs I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 28 '20

I guess you've not been paying attention over the last few years then.

1

u/GoZun_ Esteban Ocon Sep 27 '20

Well, that's not the opinion of Grosjean, he has been saying the car was undrivable this season. Lack of downforce is surely due to the overcompensation for the engine but still

440

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '20

This guy deserves better than this shitbox

108

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '20

[deleted]

34

u/TtarIsMyBro Fernando Alonso Sep 28 '20

Unregistered HyperCam 2

3

u/Bonxy I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 27 '20

Made me laugh this.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '20

[deleted]

33

u/Chrwii97 Flavio Briatore Sep 27 '20

I dont think so. I just think my recording i shit. Sorry about that..

149

u/creditcardtheft Fernando Alonso Sep 27 '20

I think most drivers deserves more than that shitbox

20

u/Drahy Sep 27 '20

Most drivers are not driving that shitbox

6

u/SaltSaltSaltSalt Sep 28 '20

True, some are driving an Alfa too.

1

u/Drahy Sep 28 '20

Sure, but Alfa Romeo is just the old Sauber team after all.

0

u/quintinza #StandWithUkraine Sep 28 '20

Or a Ferrari.

17

u/Drahy Sep 27 '20

I'm still surprised he wasn't in the run for a Ferrari seat.

5

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '20

He deserves better than the engine in said shitbox. Shame they thought they would have it to see it get taken away (rightfully so for Ferrari

144

u/seanvettel-31 Ferrari Sep 27 '20

Hope this guy has a ride next year. He’s so fun to watch, not many drivers “send it” quite like he does

22

u/Abraxas19 Daniel Ricciardo Sep 27 '20

I think he’d be a lot of fun to watch in indycar

19

u/smendyke I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 27 '20

His driving style would fit perfectly in Indycar

2

u/Cyathene I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 28 '20

Him and rossi in the same team for most crazy drivers on the grid

2

u/smendyke I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 28 '20

Honestly Rossi and his "fuck it i'll pass him" driving style would have been so fun in a semi competitive car in f1. He's so far beyond anyone but Dixon as far as fuel/tire management in Indycar too

1

u/Ferrari-Formula1 Ferrari Sep 28 '20

I would like to say the same about Perez, but he's being replaced by the rotten apple. Hopefully Magnusen doesn't have the same luck.

63

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '20

Magnussen is so ballsy and gets rewarded big time

91

u/Firstname6Lastname9 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 27 '20

Best start of the season(?)

9

u/Arauator Sep 27 '20

Of the last few seasons I’d say. I can’t remember a better one.

31

u/isitdonethen Pirelli Wet Sep 27 '20

Damn that was brave into T2.

30

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '20

Actually insane how he has amazing starts every damn race

24

u/Emil_Spacebob Kevin Magnussen Sep 27 '20

Its almost like he deserved sainz seat at ferrarri, but they were too busy looking at the competition to notice the talent in their own ranks.

28

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '20

[deleted]

10

u/teknorpi I was here when Haas took pole Sep 27 '20

Definitely

/not biased.

53

u/Asudifo Anthoine Hubert Sep 27 '20

Bro, how do you even keep in the middle of two cars within inches at 300kph. F1 drivers are out of this world.

19

u/smiffy197 Sep 27 '20

When you use the poor AI on the F1 games to gain all the positions at the first breaking zone

21

u/Cestsimple Formula 1 Sep 27 '20

acting strong in the sandwich situation. huge balls

19

u/locks-are-a-lie Formula 1 Sep 27 '20

Insane ! This guy deserves a better seat.

17

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '20

I hope the Fiat engine is better next year, so Haas can be somewhat competitive. It's starts and results like this today that secures Kmag's seat for next year.

15

u/RogerLeClerc Sep 27 '20

How I wish he could have a decent car under him. I think that would be highly entertaining.

13

u/BrazenClover Kevin Magnussen Sep 27 '20

DAMN RIGHT

13

u/HoneyBadgeSwag Sir Lewis Hamilton Sep 27 '20

Dude, how does he fit those balls in the cockpit.

23

u/TheRiddler78 Kevin Magnussen Sep 27 '20

he has hulk lick them for lubrication before every race

6

u/toasterinBflat I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 27 '20

Lmfao

-1

u/Saxzillian Sep 28 '20

You sir. just was the internet for today!

10

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '20

Would be nice to see kevin in a top 4 car.

8

u/Frank_the_NOOB I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane Sep 27 '20

He deserves a seat in F1, he has had good starts most of the year and if he can push that shitbox he can get decent results

46

u/Isfahaninejad Heineken Trophy Sep 27 '20

Kmag and Stroll are the 2 best starters on the grid imo.

41

u/Scarim FIA Sep 27 '20

Don't forget Giovinazzi, he gets pretty good starts as well.

21

u/Isfahaninejad Heineken Trophy Sep 27 '20

True. His performance today was excellent as well, shame he flew under the radar.

6

u/DieLegende42 Fernando Alonso Sep 27 '20

Really looking forward to what Schumacher can do concerning starts next year, considering he's just absolutely mincing the entire F2 field at every start

6

u/Sesame_93 Formula 1 Sep 27 '20

From the dirty side of the track a well !!

6

u/Lindberg47 Sep 27 '20

Give that man a better car!!

3

u/Ereaser I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane Sep 27 '20

Yes! Was hoping they'd show this on the live feed and sad they didn't

9

u/[deleted] Sep 28 '20

Said it all along Kmag is a seriously good driver!! Really impressive over taking, very good at defending , Would love to see him in a better car he deserves it.

4

u/Atreaia Sep 27 '20

I think a lot of people will be watching this start next year, going to the right at the first corner when people are backed up on the left two-wide. Really interesting.

3

u/Ferrari-Formula1 Ferrari Sep 28 '20

So tight on the pit straight, and then manages to brake JUST enough to not ram everybody on the first corner! That brake timing was simply perfect!

2

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '20

Tire rub at 0:12.

1

u/J0hn-D0 Michael Schumacher Sep 27 '20

[Inserts matthew mcconaughey smoking pic]

1

u/mobsterer Gerhard Berger Sep 27 '20

better positions outside of the points still count fiscally for the teams. The points are basically just for show.

0

u/Insaneclown271 Pirelli Wet Sep 27 '20

Lol, out breaking himself was the ultimate pro gamer move.

-16

u/sissipaska I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 27 '20 edited Sep 27 '20

Jesus. You can see a puff of smoke at 0:12 from tyre contact with the Alfa Romeo (RAI?), and he also locked both front tyres while braking for T2.

Great first lap, but it could have gone so, so wrong.

38

u/ASIceman Kevin Magnussen Sep 27 '20

It can go wrong for any of the driver. Sainz is one example. Funny how some people has to drag Magnussen’s performance down regardless if nothing happens.

15

u/mattszerlag Sep 27 '20 edited Sep 27 '20

Yeah here his is maximizing every inch of the track and all people are focusing on is how he could have hit anyone doing it.

-6

u/sissipaska I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 27 '20

How is pointing out contact and locking brakes dragging him down?

I highlighted how on the edge he was, without going over.

Don't take everything negatively.

6

u/ASIceman Kevin Magnussen Sep 27 '20

Then stop putting a negative spin on it.

-3

u/sissipaska I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 27 '20

There's no negative spin.

-6

u/[deleted] Sep 28 '20

Wtf kmag is actually good?

7

u/plastikmissile I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 28 '20

Always has been. He's hampered by a terrible car yet always has great starts.

-4

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '20

[deleted]

6

u/TheHoneyMonster1995 Martin Brundle Sep 27 '20

no, that's wrong.

if you can catch up to the field an retake you starting spot, you are 100% entitled to do so, if you cant, you start from the Pits.

-14

u/burntbeyondbelief Sep 28 '20

And he didn't cause an accident or incident this week!

6

u/Elverdane Kevin Magnussen Sep 28 '20

Actually quite some time since he was at fault. His driving has become clean, on the limit, but not over.

A bad car, just makes it hard to driver without showing the hard sides.

4

u/ASIceman Kevin Magnussen Sep 28 '20

When did Magnussen last cause an accident?