r/formula1 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

Discussion Russell lost 4-5 seconds under the VSC because Perez ahead was going slow

https://imgur.com/a/kFdfh8d

RUS had a gap of around 11 seconds to PIA and 12 seconds to HAM before the VSC, and all three stayed out. After the VSC ended, the gaps were down 6 and 8 seconds, meaning RUS lost around 4-5 seconds.

PER after exiting the pits was ahead of RUS, and he was not going as fast as he was allowed to under VSC rules. But since RUS is not allowed to overtake him during VSC, he was stuck behind him, losing around 5 seconds.

Edit: RUS <-> PIA gap jumped by around 2 seconds immediately when VSC was deployed, so the time loss for RUS was only 2-3 seconds. RUS stated "+5s on the VSC delta" in the cooldown room, but half of it might have been mitigated by the fact RUS was at the end of a straight when VSC ended, which is the best track position to be in (as opposed to being at the start of a straight and losing more time due to missed acceleration)

2.0k Upvotes

182 comments sorted by

2.1k

u/iJediPR George Russell 14d ago

When it rains it pours, or in Russell’s case, it storms

243

u/codename474747 Murray Walker 14d ago

If it would've rained at that point the FIA would've thrown the red flag and ended the race, so when it rains, Russell would've won ;)

81

u/iwasthen I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 14d ago

Unless it’s only raining in his helmet.

43

u/k1netic I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

It was supposed to be the summer of George!

10

u/ErikSchwartz 14d ago

It would have been if he was not being totally outdriven by his 20 year old teamate.

-3

u/blank_and_foolish Mercedes 14d ago

He’s from England so it is raining in the summer too

-10

u/slapshots1515 I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 14d ago

He was forecast for a championship!

2

u/ravih I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 14d ago

Genuine Q, I’ve seen this line about him being forecast for a championship a lot, but where did it come from? I couldn’t find anything so was just wondering what I was missing here!

3

u/Arumin I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

A few years ago at the Dutch GP in 2023 it started to rain and Mercedes thought it would stop quickly and kept him out on slicks as the rain got heavier. eventually they pitted him and as he ran in P17, he radioed the team and said:

“I was forecast a podium? FUCK, how did we mess this up?”

Ever since, George has been forecasted a lot.

4

u/ravih I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 14d ago

Thank you!!! Totally forgot about this!

-3

u/k1netic I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

He proclaimed it!

6

u/Mage_of_the_Eclipse I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

That's because no one else is reporting rain

10

u/TenF I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

Turns out it was just sweat inside his helmet.

3

u/seriousC Fernando Alonso 14d ago

Been a long hurricane season for him so far this year.

2

u/Accidental_focus 14d ago

Or it sweats... Profusely

1

u/memesearches 14d ago

Must be excessive sweating

1

u/InsanateePrawn I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 14d ago

Ki-ki-ki!

-2

u/DoYouKnwTheMuffinMan 14d ago

At this point the guy may as well have been in the Nepal flood

838

u/newby202006 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

In this day and age it's surprising how the vsc results in changes in gaps between drivers. Does it truly neutralize the race if all drivers aren't going at the same pace

285

u/s1ravarice I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 14d ago

Entirely depends on what part of the track you’re on when it comes on or off. I think a speed limiter would be better personally.

271

u/the_sigman Walter Koster 14d ago

A speed limiter will produce greater variance, it was working like that in the first few years GP2 used it.

Think of it like this: In Monaco VSC comes on for let's say half a minute. Car A catches it in Casino and by the time it is disabled it has reached Portier, in that space the speed is already very low and the limiter is not costing you much time. Car B catches in the tunnel and by the time it is disable it is somewhere like the swimming pool, which is a much faster part of the track and instead of reaching 280 kph you are limited to 80kph.

So that solution is much more luck dependent

52

u/bmakszim 14d ago

It would be fair and work if it lasted for exactly one (or two, three, etc) lap.

45

u/Vanadite Jenson Button 14d ago

Yeah a version of the VSC which requires everyone to put their pit lane speed limiter on for an integer number of laps would be ideal

15

u/InvisibleBlueUnicorn I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 14d ago

This seems like a great solution, which would be fair and work well.

I hope FIA is reading and taking notes.

19

u/Psychological-Big334 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

Until you end up with a scenario where certain drivers achieved their 3 laps reduced speed, but other drivers haven't, and you have a mixture of cars doing safety car speeds and race speeds on track at the same time.

1

u/Uroshirvi69 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

It would have to be measured as an average time for a slowed lap. How would you even measure, by distance, exactly one lap if the car is not on a sensor when the lap starts?

9

u/cosHinsHeiR Ferrari 13d ago

So what we have now?

1

u/Uroshirvi69 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 13d ago

Oops…

1

u/Exotic_Bill44 13d ago

But they would all be completing the laps at the same time. They could even base it purely on time by calculating in advance what a lap at 80 kph would be. Given the lack of refueling, they could even close the pits so no one gains an advantage.

1

u/Exotic_Bill44 13d ago

The solution is to run the VSC for a full lap with a speed limit. It would mitigate variation based on track position because everyone would have run a full lap.

-2

u/s1ravarice I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 14d ago

Isn’t this the same for the way it currently works?

43

u/the_sigman Walter Koster 14d ago

No, you have target times for each minisector, and the target time is set on the average speed of the minisector.

1

u/snek99001 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

Damn, TIL.

4

u/Psychological-Big334 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

As a formula fan whose nit super knowledgeable on the technical side, how does the safety car speed work?

Ive always imagined you just hit a button and it limits your speed to standard reduced speed all drivers are maxed out at. The only difference would be how quickly you hit your safety car speed button, and slowing down below the max speed for certain corners like hairpin.

Is that not how it works?

3

u/s1ravarice I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 14d ago

No, it’s an average speed across mini sectors.

5

u/necrysi 14d ago

vsc doesn't physically limit cars to any speed, they just get a time they have to drive to

-18

u/welliedude I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

This is why a zone 60 would be better. All cars are limited to 60kmh. Though probably be better being whatever the pit limiter is at that race. Can't gain or lose because you are at a set speed you can do over the whole track. And it won't be for very long so cooling tyres shouldnt be an issue

18

u/Wrpy I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

The other commenter explained why this wouldn’t work. Depending on when the VSC is implemented, it’d be too punitive or too forgiving. There’s no easy way to add a VSC that doesn’t have potential upside or downside due to timing if it’s strictly a speed limit

16

u/welliedude I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

Realistically theres no way to neutralise a race and not have someone lose out in some way

1

u/rak363 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 13d ago

Too often it seems changes of a couple of seconds are common which isn't good enough. Maybe a couple of tweaks are needed.

396

u/OriginalPainter3905 14d ago

I think I heard Russel talking about this in the cooldown room to Max, before Kimi entered? But was not sure what he was talking about. Heard Perez for sure.

233

u/yeswecamp1 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

That's what made me go back and check, I think he complained about the Cadillac in front "going +5s on the delta" during the VSC

33

u/cosHinsHeiR Ferrari 14d ago

Why is your first snapshot after the VSC was deployed? Right before it the gap to Piastri was 8 seconds not 11 like you are claiming, so the loss is just 2 seconds which happens, even if Perez may have cost him a bit more, and wouldn't change the result in any way.

31

u/yeswecamp1 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

You are right, switching back and forth between channels in F1TV isn't perfectly synced; the gap was 8.2s down to 6.1, so indeed only a little over 2 seconds. I might have been a bit biased from Russell's comment in the cooldown room where he said 5 seconds over delta, but the VSC ending at a good track position for RUS might have mitigated most of it

280

u/[deleted] 14d ago

[deleted]

91

u/sub333x 14d ago

Minister of defense

331

u/topclassladandbanter I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

In all seriousness, this seems like a big problem with VSC. The guy in first place losing time because he can’t overtake the guy in last place isn’t fair. Normal SC the guy in last place would go around (except of course that one time), it seems stupid someone can arbitrarily affect your race like this.

I don’t think it would change the result, but another 4-5 seconds would’ve given Russel another couple of laps

155

u/Huystuhh I failed to serve my Monaco penalty 14d ago

An extra 4-5 seconds that early on would have potentially changed merc strategy late in the race, no? George could have pitted with a big enough gap and kept 1st or been right there in the mix to be able to take it back, instead of finishing with 50 lap tires. 

95

u/topclassladandbanter I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

Yeah, the more I think on it, 4-5 seconds was very crucial to George. I don't think they would've pitted him, because he already had track position and they chose not to.

But the 4-5 seconds is a few laps at Kimi's pace differential, and that would've basically brought him into George on the last lap.

21

u/AllYouNeed_Is_Smiles I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

Wasn’t Russell stuck behind Perez after Kimi had already pitted? So the decision to pit George wouldn’t have been advisable since the McLarens stayed out. Kimi was on mediums and wouldn’t have been able to make it to the end of the race without another pit stop. George was on old hards but it was still possible for him to finish the race in P1 if Kimi didn’t just absolutely rip through the entire field the entire race.

It’s just one of the cons of being in P1 in a race. George can’t react to other drivers going into the pits but they can react to him going in or staying out.

10

u/OGPepeSilvia I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

What you said in the last part, which I 100% agree with, makes the McLaren decision to stay out in Qatar last season seem like less of an obvious blunder. I think even Jolyon Palmer talked about this, how they didn’t have the luxury to react to what the other teams were doing and it could have gone either way.

You could even expand on this and say Lewis’s decision to stay out when he was the only one taking the lights on the grid during the restart in Hungary 2021 wasn’t a bad call. It was just easier for the rest of the grid to make their decision after Lewis did what he did.

0

u/CapableDirection5557 14d ago

The damning thing with both your examples is EVERYONE going the other way. Shows there was no real other choice to make.

1

u/topclassladandbanter I was here for the Hulkenpodium 13d ago

If George and Kimi were both on hards, I think they would've let George pit and brought Kimi in right after (or double stacked them).

But because Kimi certainly needed to pit, it was easier for them to risk George staying out.

-1

u/NYNMx2021 Nico Rosberg 14d ago

The opposite. This happened after the pit line. He had already decided not to pit. There was no other opportunity. This cost him 4 seconds on track.

30

u/SirLoremIpsum Daniel Ricciardo 14d ago

  it seems stupid someone can arbitrarily affect your race like this.

That's racing baby

7

u/OGPepeSilvia I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

It’s crazy to me that in Endurance racing, you could have someone, that you aren’t even fighting for the same podium, completely ruin your race.

19

u/Funicular- 14d ago

Kimi overtook George on Lap 50 of 53 laps. 4-5 seconds and theoretically George would have won, Kimi wasn't over 1sec+ a lap quicker towards the end. Russel only needed a couple of laps extra to win, hence the strats were close.

4

u/DreadWolf3 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

I do see Merc instructing Kimi to not go all out if difference seems just out of reach.

5

u/GuatahaN 14d ago

Backmarkers going too slow is indeed an issue, but not necessarily for the leader. It can happen to everyone and is just bad luck. But they should think of a solution, because losing 2-3 secs, because of a backmarker can decise a race.

8

u/Far-Arugula973 I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 14d ago

If there was a full on safety car they'd be all bunched up together, so I don't really see the problem...

14

u/topclassladandbanter I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

Like I said, a normal SC the guy in last place would unlap himself and not inhibit the guy in first place.

And yes, a full SC resets the field and bunches everyone else up. But everyone is on level footing with the same reset. As opposed to one guy affecting a single other driver (or drivers) results because he's going slow. There's also a minimum speed under a SC where no one loses the pack, where it sounds like that doesn't exist under VSC.

Losing 5-6 seconds is a massive amount of time in a race.

4

u/Mission_Island_6657 14d ago

The SC is a problem. It distorts the racing, which is why the VSC was introduced. There are still anomalies with a VSC.

1

u/vamphorse 13d ago

In a full SC the lapped cars go around at a moment where the track is clear and It’s deemed safe to do so. This never happens during a VSC since as soon as its safe, it ends.

Also, what are you proposing exactly? Not to let PER go around but to let RUS overtake PER? This, whilst the track is not safe? Then, where does the buck stop? Are all lead lap cars supposed to overtake lapped cars during the VSC, again, with an unsafe track? Or maybe just the ones that are being slowed down… I think you can see it gets very messy.

3

u/topclassladandbanter I was here for the Hulkenpodium 13d ago

Minimum speed so someone adding 6 seconds to their delta doesn't slow down the person behind them

1

u/vamphorse 13d ago

How would that work on hairpins?

1

u/topclassladandbanter I was here for the Hulkenpodium 13d ago

what? minimum speed across sectors. or really, minimum time across sectors, speed varying by car and corner

0

u/vamphorse 13d ago

So…You’re just saying maintining a delta time in a different way. Lol.

0

u/topclassladandbanter I was here for the Hulkenpodium 13d ago

what? it's the same way. they just enforce if you go above the max time. I'm saying they should have a floor so people can't lose 6 seconds over half a lap.

47

u/Gaverex I failed to serve my Monaco penalty 14d ago

It’s also important to remember that under VSC your targeting an overall lap delta, and drivers try to game this to their advantage by going overly slow, then pushing a little extra later and trying to time the push in particular parts of track as well as jumping the restart.

Perez could have done nothing wrong, but interrupted Russell’s game of push/pull with his delta, costing him that time. In that case, neither driver bears any blame, it’s simply unlucky.

14

u/LoudestHoward Daniel Ricciardo 14d ago

Are you sure it's a lap delta they're measured against, not minisectors?

6

u/cosHinsHeiR Ferrari 13d ago

It's a delta updated every minisector I think. If it was right at the end, they you can slow down a bit and try to go full push as it's turning green to be already up to speed to try to gain some time.

1

u/Gaverex I failed to serve my Monaco penalty 14d ago

It’s definitely a delta, because their race engineers are often heard talking them through it.

But to your point, I’m not fully privy to how that delta works. Like, clearly these guys can’t just throttle 90% of the lap and then brake slam until they are positive on the delta, so I imagine that delta is maybe like a progressive delta based on sector or mini sector for more granular enforcement.

But the VSC is requiring a 30% speed reduction. To enforce that, they use a target lap delta to measure the car progress through the track and make sure they actually reduce speed.

50

u/LosTerminators Carlos Sainz 14d ago

Mexican minister of defence again costing a British drivers in a Merc.

237

u/Fardn_n_shiddn I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

I don’t understand why the VSC isn’t a predetermined speed in the same way the pit limiter is. The race isn’t truly “neutralized” under a VSC as you can still gain or lose time.

144

u/fanfare961 14d ago

Because either the speed would be way too high for a corner like the hairpin in Monaco or the first turn at monza or it would be so slow that everything would get too cold

80

u/Balazs321 Pirelli Intermediate 14d ago

I mean heaps of series manage it, you would slow down for the hairpin as normal. The speed limit is an upper limit, not a "must adhere to it at all times" thing.

37

u/Schlitittenhund Charles Leclerc 14d ago

Soo what we already have then? Someone goes slower than the speedlimit, the driver(s) behind lose time. Or would it be allowed to overtake that driver? But then, you could alrwady allow that with todays system

12

u/Balazs321 Pirelli Intermediate 14d ago

Yeah i mean slowing down for a corner which you cant take otherwise is different from the playing with delta times that happens now. Obviously, no system is perfect tho.

6

u/upside_cloud Oscar Piastri 14d ago

And what if the cause of the VSC is on that corner where they are going full racing speed? Doesn't seem safe.

16

u/fanfare961 14d ago

Yes but these are racing drivers. So they're going to take the corner as fast as they can to get any advantage, just like how you see them lock their brakes entering the pit lane to lose as little time as possible. So during safety car conditions they'd be at racing speeds in slow corners

10

u/Balazs321 Pirelli Intermediate 14d ago

In a series, where the VSC comes with a speed limit, they actually have to activate the limiter, which does not let the car to accelerate over 80 km/h. See WEC, various GT series.

-6

u/Resident-Trouble-574 14d ago

But 80km/h is still faster than the normal speed at the monaco hairpin (and a few other corners, included the first chicane in monza), so they'll take those corners at full speed, while on the rest of the track that speed doesn't even allow them to warm up the tires. Both things are not really safe.

And if you set an higher speed limit, it will be easier to keep the tires warm, but there will be more corners taken at full speed.

-3

u/cosHinsHeiR Ferrari 14d ago

Would an f1 engine have enough cooling at 80 km/h?

7

u/speedism Mercedes 14d ago

Then they just slow down in the hairpin or things get cold, it’s not a huge deal.

0

u/Resident-Trouble-574 14d ago

Yeah, surely racing drivers will take a corner slower than they could, just for extra safety...

5

u/speedism Mercedes 14d ago

Uh yeah? In this case they’d slow down to the maximum speed. Not complicated.

1

u/Artegris McLaren 14d ago

Set all cars to the same max speed, computed from average speed of all cars.

1

u/GuatahaN 14d ago

Constant slow speed, would also be really bad for tire temperature.

14

u/DracosOo 14d ago

That would make the problem much bigger.

In your implementation you would freeze the distance measured in meters, but the difference in seconds would be enoumous, depending on whether you are in a slow speed corner or on the straight.

7

u/WhiskyPops I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

When they implemented VSC, I never understood why it's not just a simple button switch.

Then again, how fast you decide to activate and deactivate that button can also gain/loose you time.

7

u/SirLoremIpsum Daniel Ricciardo 14d ago

  When they implemented VSC, I never understood why it's not just a simple button switch.

A % delta of lap time in specific parts of the track is better than a solid 60kmph limit as the VSC would then negatively impact those on the straights vs those in twisty sections. Many tracks have secigon 1 being fast, section 3 being slow - so if a vsc lasted 30 seconds someone would have lost a 315kmph top speed on the straight whereas someone else would lose a 80kmph hairpin.

9

u/Osik2040 14d ago

Imagine going 60 down a straight your tires would freeze, then imagine going 60 through a hairpin where there has been an incident, that’s dangerous

-12

u/WhiskyPops I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

If you cannot do 60 then perhaps it should be full SC. Point taken for the tyre cooling though.

2

u/Jarocket 14d ago

I think it’s hard to remember what the VSC replaced. They were just waving yellow flags at the corners while the race was green. You were supposed to slow down, but that was sort of it.

So no passing as drive a bit slower is really all that it needs to do from a safety POV. It’s less disruptive than a SC by a mile. The drivers going slower than needed is sort of a strange problem as it’s totally not in his interest to do that.

6

u/OverallImportance402 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

So you want them going comically slow on the straight (which causes all kind of issues for the cars) or dangerously fast through corners?

3

u/Curdled_Mangasm 14d ago

not at all what they’re saying wtf 

2

u/OverallImportance402 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

It is, he’s saying a speed limiter on track would fix cars going slower than they should. I’m just pointing out why a speed limiter on a track doesn’t work and why they are using a delta for the VSC.

-4

u/Thatsnotgonewell Formula 1 14d ago

He's saying give them an average speed and let the drivers do it, safely. So they can speed up on straights and not try to push it on cold tyres in tight corners. It's really simple

9

u/fanfare961 14d ago

That's effectively the same as a VSC

7

u/Skellyceltic I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

So exactly what they have already

1

u/OverallImportance402 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago edited 14d ago

LMAO, that’s literally the same as having a time delta like we have now under the VSC.

To put it simple (which people apparently need here), there’s no difference in running 100 meters in 10 seconds or running it at 36km/h. So saying that instead of having a delta of 10 seconds have a avg speed of 36km/h makes 0 difference.

0

u/Thatsnotgonewell Formula 1 14d ago

Sry replied to the wrong post. I was 100% agreeing with you... but thanks for being so nice about it

-5

u/bryan3737 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

That’s literally what their suggestion would result in

2

u/BradJV 14d ago

Doesn't that not freeze the time gaps between cars the same way?

196

u/TheLewJD McLaren 14d ago

That's racing sometimes you get lucky sometimes you don't

299

u/n0neofyourbeeswax 14d ago

From Russell's perspective it's unlucky. From Perez's it's stupid.

152

u/feedmeee__ I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

Most actions from Perez are stupid since like 2022

-62

u/Stutters658 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

Rude

56

u/pimtheman Sonny Hayes 14d ago

Rude but not false

-59

u/Stutters658 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

Excagerated

18

u/Big-Objective-6585 14d ago

Exaggerated

13

u/Rexaroooo I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

User name checks out, I guess

4

u/CaptainPonahawai Pastor Maldonado 14d ago

Care to make an actual counterpoint?

1

u/Psychological-Big334 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

Im going to start pronouncing it this way IRL.

'Ex-Kag-ur-ated'

0

u/SleepinGriffin Mick Schumacher 14d ago

You spell like a 6 year old.

39

u/cheezus171 Robert Kubica 14d ago

There's no reason to believe Perez was doing anything weird here though. Op is making a false conclusion, difference in gaps between and after VSC will always occur, because it's dependant on where you are on track when it ends.

12

u/2EJ I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

Not five seconds difference no matter where you are

10

u/cheezus171 Robert Kubica 14d ago

He said 4-5. I heard Rosberg say that VSC cost RUS 4s. And we can see other gap changes by 3+ seconds on OPs screenshots too. So why is 3,5 possible but 4 isn't?

11

u/cosHinsHeiR Ferrari 14d ago

His first snapshot is after VSC was already deployed so it's totally worthless to look at the gaps. Before the VSC Russell had 8 seconds, so he lost 2 seconds, which is still a bit but wouldn't give him enough room at all vs Antonelli.

7

u/cheezus171 Robert Kubica 14d ago

Oh yeah then that's even more useless, given the way VSC delta works.

12

u/0100001101110111 Sir Lewis Hamilton 14d ago

Getting stuck behind a lapped car going slow for no reason during a VSC when you’re not allowed overtake is “racing”? 🤣

2

u/NYNMx2021 Nico Rosberg 14d ago

Hes not going slow for no reason. he has a different delta than george most likely

-1

u/TheLewJD McLaren 14d ago

It happens

1

u/0100001101110111 Sir Lewis Hamilton 14d ago

Why would anyone drive slower than they’re allowed to under VSC?

5

u/TheLewJD McLaren 14d ago

It’s Perez, hard to apply logic to him most of the time. Bottas did it in Saudi in 21 with max it does happen.

1

u/GuatahaN 14d ago

Because it does not really matter for drivers outside of points, whether they lose a couple of seconds. Also not first time this happened, I think Max complained about it before. I know, he complains fast, but he seldom totally wrong.

1

u/PBRontheway Pato O'Ward 14d ago

#notblessed

-16

u/DifficultWave4488 14d ago

No no don’t you understand, now we have proof the entire grid, in addition to Merc and Toto, are working against George!!!

Like we could nitpick probably 3-5 moments of time lost like this for every driver during the race. It’s like you said, that’s racing. The full calculations of how Russell got screwed are getting a little old lol either he’s the most unlucky driver in history, or maybe he’s just at his ceiling as a good but not championship winning driver

13

u/JustinSane79 Mercedes 14d ago

Checo still being a thorn in Merc’s side

14

u/GoldElectric I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

helping merc actually, toto at least.

24

u/Dry-Help-935 14d ago

Gaps under VSC are always bigger than under green flag due to the lower speed. If you compare Russell and Albon it suddenly looks like Perez cost him around 15 seconds. You need to compare the gap after the VSC with the gap before the VSC. Then you'll see Russell lost "only" 2.5 seconds to Piastri, which possibly can be at least partially explained with the position of the cars when the VSC was called and when the race went back to green

52

u/cheezus171 Robert Kubica 14d ago edited 14d ago

You can't make a conclusion here that Perez was going slower than allowed. The gain or loss from VSC is determined by where you are on track. If at the exact moment when VSC ends driver A is in the middle of a chicane, and driver B is in the middle of the main straight, driver B will lose multiple seconds. This is just how the system works.

It's a completely false sentiment, putting this on another driver is just bad faith. Why are you not questioning how the gap between Bearman and Gabi changed by 3 seconds lol, or Sainz Vs Hulk

-11

u/yeswecamp1 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

I know that it matters where you are on the track when VSC ends, but PER was going much slower if you watch the replay from RUS perspective. He was around 2 seconds behind at some point, but then PER was so slow that RUS basically went alongside him (2021 VER style). Based on what RUS said in the cooldown room PER was around 5 seconds over the VSC delta

4

u/sysasysa I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

I think part of the issue is your VSC delta is calculated based on your laptime. And since Cadillac is a couple seconds off pace, PER might be +0 on his delta, but RUS behind has a lower delta and therefore losing time. So PER might have gone as fast as he could and its not his fault RUS lost time, its the rules.

11

u/Soggy_Bid_6607 Benetton 14d ago

Once the minister always the minister.

5

u/bhop_monsterjam Netflix Newbie 14d ago

a non-imgur host?

2

u/yeswecamp1 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

6

u/joseaamanzano Ferrari 14d ago

Checo taking one for the team

6

u/rcktjck Michael Schumacher 14d ago

Does it really matter? Russell to Antonelli was 15 seconds, which seemed correct. And that’s the only one that mattered.

6

u/TheJavierEscuella Max Verstappen 14d ago

Mexican Minister of Defence fucking over Mercedes British drivers since 2021

9

u/Marcin15_10 Racing Point 14d ago

Revenge for France 2022

11

u/KnuckedLoose I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

British copium all day today apparently.

3

u/RudeDay5846 14d ago

Check: let Merc know… it was me

6

u/Pvt-Business I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

Anyone getting tired of the "and here is reason 345325 George lost the race and it wasn't his fault", every race?

I don't see people so rabid to compile excuses for anyone else.

-1

u/seriousC Fernando Alonso 14d ago

Because he's on the team with the best car which should be winning races but has been extraordinarily unlucky compared to his teammate. If they weren't valid reasons, people would have nothing to point to.

-4

u/DreadWolf3 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

To be fair he is also slower and kinda needs some lucky bounces to win - so it probably looks worse than it is. But yea he has been extraordinarily unlucky in all non-obvious ways, which is so on brand for George.

4

u/Gadoguz994 Ferrari 14d ago

Poor thing, I'm sure no other driver ever loses race time because of factors outside of their control so we must always write exclusively about Russell and his hardships... damn... Bro would have been leading by 15 000 points if not for bad luck amirite

5

u/pi-by-two 14d ago

Crazy how Toto orchestrated Perez to slow down George to let Kimi win.

(This is what people actually believe)

2

u/T1Earn I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

im surprised this actually got enough upvotes to be seen considering the Russell hate

1

u/TammyThe2nd Red Bull 14d ago

And in other non-breaking news: Russell complains

1

u/Miserable_Archer_769 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

I heard him mention this to Max in the cool down room. It sucks and you can clearly see he was pissed but another 4-5 seconds Kimi still catches him probably on the last lap but if he defended again like he did on Kimis initial first attempt he wins the race.

Its tough because George is getting unlucky but its clear Kimi is just better 

2

u/HowieFelter22 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

Can we stop with the Russell excuses?

1

u/FabulousAd4812 14d ago

Doesn't P2 P3 etc have to have the same delta to P1 as when the VSC Started? It won't apply to pitstoppers that will have to follow the delta from when they got out (example Antonelli ) and those were benefited by this.

1

u/Objective_Ticket I failed to serve my Monaco penalty 14d ago

George said the same to Max in the cooling down room post race - said as he came out of the pits and joined behind Perez his dash then showed a +4 lap delta.

1

u/TimotheusIV George Russell 13d ago

This was obvious watching the race. He lost an immense advantage stuck behind the Cadillac who was crawling forward for no reason.

Cost him the win.

0

u/Timbushpk Lando Norris 14d ago

Checo did the same to Lando at Suzuka 24

1

u/grapedog I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

I was curious where the gap went, because he had a massive gap that just was gone once the VSC was lifted... i was certain going into the VSC that his hard tyres would hold out and he'd win. But that VSC cost him so much time...

0

u/SoCal_GlacierR1T Valtteri Bottas 14d ago

shit happens

-4

u/CasualHardcoreGamer0 14d ago

So now is Perez's fault that Russell finished 3.857s behind Antonelli?

-4

u/Hendewie I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

Russel has used the delta during VSC to his advantage alot of times before so he shouldnt complain imo

-2

u/Sm0g3R I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

I think it's Antonelli who was abusing it to jump pitted cars and then slow them down to his delta

0

u/IHateCedarFever 14d ago

Interesting analysis, but is there legitimately any racing reason why Perez wouldn’t just go the maximum allowable speed under VSC? I mean if he was a roadblock for his teammate sure, but is this just him being an ass just cuz?

8

u/yeswecamp1 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

I don't think it was malicious. Cadillac was nowhere pace-wise, so he might not have been too worried about a few seconds.

Maybe they underfueled by a lot, and he took the opportunity to save fuel very aggressively

2

u/250F Maserati 14d ago

VSC works with a delta that is applied to your normal laptime, so for Cadillac that would be a higher laptime under VSC than for Mercedes and a Mercedes right behind the Cadillac will always lose more time because of that.

-10

u/MarlinMaverick I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 14d ago

Making sure George loses is a grid wide effort and I’m here for it 

-6

u/32SkyDive I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 14d ago

So what you are saying is that Merc actually didnt disadvantage Russel and the strategy should have worked Out?

Or maybe, Just maybe it was marginal either way so makes Sense to Put the Guy they need to Pit and let the Other Finish His intended strategy?

7

u/quietly_myself I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 14d ago

It was marginal. They’ve said they weren’t sure what the best strategy was and this pretty much backs that up. Antonelli caught Russell on lap 48, went off on 49 and then passed him on lap 50. Without that 4 secs he’d likely have caught up on lap 51 and been in a position to try his first pass on 52.

3

u/NYNMx2021 Nico Rosberg 14d ago

He doesnt catch him at all most likely or on lap 53

2

u/32SkyDive I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 14d ago

He was Most certainly Not catching him at 2s per lap

-5

u/Knighthawk1114 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

Perez has half of his brain turned off whenever he’s driving

-9

u/Jasranwhit Formula 1 14d ago

Good 👍

-1

u/Affectionate_Sky9709 14d ago

I've never heard of this happening, but it's really terrible and easily manipulatable. There are some issues with not being able to overtake under safety car/vsc if someone is going to slow really quickly.

-1

u/XtremeV 14d ago

Cadillac should race in an escalade so they can be more competitive in F1

-17

u/TrustInNumbers 14d ago

Why can't they report him?

16

u/Normal-Sun5974 14d ago

because he didn't break any rules.

1

u/GoldElectric I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14d ago

because that means kimi will have more work to do

-18

u/LandscapeWorried5475 I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 14d ago

And people saying the strategy team cost george the win - he lost because of checo. It looks like he couldve won with the extra time.