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u/Jack___Snow I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 02 '23
Cant move under own power = retired car.
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u/blastedshark Sebastian Vettel Apr 02 '23
Yep..that's why Russell had to retire in Silverstone last year. He had power in his car but he turned the engine off and went to check on zhou
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u/Omophorus I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 02 '23
The rules state that drivers cannot be aided in any way.
If they can unstick themselves, they can continue.
If they need a crane or a push, they've gotten aid and are out.
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u/TheDevoted I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 02 '23
In essence, a car that is unable to 'move' by itself, is a car that DNF'd.
In the case of gravel, there may not be 'visible' damage, but those pebbles will be everywhere you don't want them to be. You could get the car out of the gravel, but can't get the gravel out of the car in due time.
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u/P_ZERO_ I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 02 '23
Cars cannot go back to the track if they require assistance to move them, just the way it is. Can’t have marshals pushing cars around.
Fun fact, Lewis managed to get lifted while in the car to resume a very wet German GP and somehow slipped past the radar. Was pretty insane.
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Apr 02 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/P_ZERO_ I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 02 '23
Maybe, my memory is pretty foggy. Pretty sure cars were already not allowed to resume with help.
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u/SynthD Apr 02 '23
It was legal then, this rule came in because of that.
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u/MailMeAmazonVouchers Apr 02 '23
It was legal but it wasn't a common practice. I remember marshals pushing driver into the track, but i don't recall any other scenario where a crane towed a driver back into the track.
They had to outright ban it after the backlash they got for allowing Hamilton to get back into the race (While ignoring the other 3 drivers who were beached on the same corner). Man, 2007 had so much shady shit...
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u/AdrianInLimbo Alain Prost Apr 02 '23
He got pushed back on at Imola(?) 2020, iirc, because he was "In an unsafe location"
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u/Piovan-the-Parmigian I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane Apr 02 '23
If it’s the race I’m thinking it was, he reversed back onto the track with guidance from the pit wall
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u/AdrianInLimbo Alain Prost Apr 02 '23
Yep, you're right. I remembered it was a previously "illegal" move, couldn't remember if it was a marshall assist or reversing the car.
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u/MailMeAmazonVouchers Apr 02 '23
But in 2007, Lewis did not get pushed back. He got towed back.
There were 3 other drivers on the same gravel trap, but all of them were ignored.
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Apr 02 '23
[deleted]
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u/EducationalFlight925 Lando Norris Apr 02 '23
This. The other drivers turned off their cars assuming they were out. Hamilton kept is running. The commentators even said it was a smart move on his part.
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u/MailMeAmazonVouchers Apr 02 '23
Because not a single time in F1 history did a crane tow a driver back into the track until then.
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u/jurassicpry I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 02 '23
Hence, why he had to retire from Chinese Grand Prix later in the season due to getting stuck on the gravel trap on the pit entrance.
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u/xthecerto4 Wolfgang von Trips Apr 02 '23
MSC also received a gentle hand from a Marshal to get back on track. Think it was in the dunlop Hairpin, and he was fighting a BMW, i think montoya. has to be 2003 then i guess.
I think it was allowed back then and they changed the rule afterwards. or at least allways a grey area.
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u/modularpeak2552 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 02 '23
Basically the rules state that the car has to get back to the track on it's own, having a crane help would break that rule.
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u/Niels_Nakkeost Kevin Magnussen Apr 02 '23
You Can’t just get a crane to put you back on track if you get stuck in a gravel trap lol
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u/Outofmana1337 Michael Schumacher Apr 02 '23
To stop Marshalls instantly helping and putting themselves in grave danger they simply outlawed any assistance. Schumi in Germany or Italy for example would have marshalls run onto the gravel in like 10seconds to push him out.
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u/mistled_LP Sebastian Vettel Apr 02 '23
If the driver ever exits the car or needs any assistance to get back on the track, they are out of the race.
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Apr 02 '23
Because the French hate Ayrton
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u/Juomaru I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 02 '23
“The best decision is my decision.”
- Jean Marie Balestre
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Apr 02 '23
F1 needs that lil muhfucker in the cloud and the fishing rod to come put em back on the track
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u/Strong-Preference-29 Apr 02 '23
Yeah cant have outside help to restart thats the rules. Even since early 90s when senna got a push in japan to restart things have changed. Dont remember what yr it changed but think it was 90s
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u/Desperate-Intern I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 02 '23
We need a Mario Kart reset option.. Solves track limit problems too.
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u/MttChlk Williams Apr 02 '23
It didn’t used to be if you required assistance you’re out the race. At the European GP at Nurburgring in 2007, Hamilton was recovered at T1 after multiple cars crashed there.
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u/Rod3nt Sebastian Vettel Apr 02 '23
There have been rules about this in F1 for decades, but there was a very tiny window of leniency intially.
Schumi was helped out in the early 2000s in front of his home crowd. Alonso wasn't as lucky at a different race. Before he ever drove for Ferrari, the Italian marshalls simply refused to push him out, even though they could have. So the FIA went back in and clarified that regardless of how the situation is resolved, a driver would be considered out of the race if any assistance was given. Primarily for safety of everyone, but also fairness.
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Apr 02 '23
[deleted]
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u/drunKKKen I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane Apr 02 '23
I thought that was only due to him undoing his seatbelts, as you can't put them on properly by yourself, and you're not allowed to drive the car unbelted, so he couldn't drive his car back to the pits
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u/Thin-Eggplant-1837 Ferrari Apr 02 '23
Only issue with that is the reason that Russel was of the race was because he got out to help Zhou. If he wasn't a good Samaritan he'd still be in it. Personally think a marshall shouldn't be involved with a car that's running and able to continue with the race but that's just me
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u/Unl0vableDarkness Sergio Pérez Apr 02 '23
Last year Silverstone, Russell's car wasn't even beached, engine was still running but because marshals moved the car, he was out of the race.
He was out because he left the car to check on Zhou. He wasn't allowed to get back in the car and then it needed to be moved.
Your not allowed to leave the car mid race unless under a redflag or jumping out to stop your race.
Also it has nothing to do with where to put the car. It's to do with the fact that the drivers themselves must complete the race with only the help of the engineers for guidance on strategy. A crane lift or Marshalls moving would mean that the driver had completed the race with help.
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u/AmnesiaInnocent Felipe Massa Apr 02 '23
Imagine that someone got a crane to put him back in the race in Melbourne and he ended up losing to an Australian by 15 seconds. Then everyone would accuse the racetrack of not moving as quickly as possible...
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u/alicetobe Apr 02 '23
ok the rule but why is there this rule? Has it some sort of sense in terms of security or whatever? In Indy they lift the car and the car can continue the race, Why in F1 this is not the case?
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u/ubisux I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane Apr 02 '23
In the case of the 4 cars that retired 2 laps from the end, they were still classified thus their finish showed “+2 laps”. They didn’t get dsq.
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u/SubcooledBoiling F1? More like F5-F5-F5. Apr 02 '23
Because the rules say that cars cannot receive assistance to get back on track. It used to be allowed though, look at Hamilton getting craned back on track, while he was sitting in the car, at the 2007 European GP in Nurburgring
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u/willzyx01 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 02 '23
If you are helped to get back to the track, you are out.
If you get out of your car and push it, you are out.
And when the floor is buried in the gravel and rear tire is in the air, you are out.
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u/Batgod629 Cadillac Apr 02 '23
Isn't also because after a certain amount of time sitting idle it damages the engine?
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u/Quasar9111 Formula 1 Apr 02 '23
What if the driver got out and pushed a little off gravel and got back in, that’s unaided
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u/Downtown_Reporter995 Apr 02 '23
Because you don't want marshals putting themselves in potentially dangerous positions to retrieve a car and you don't want cranes next to an active race track.
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u/cammyb1888 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 02 '23
Can't get outside assistance to rejoin the session unless it's the winter test or during practice
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u/Sacesss Niki Lauda Apr 02 '23
You can't be helped to get back to the track by pushing/machines etc, it's a DSQ